George Hirst

[Tewkesbury]

9 hours ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I'm not sure you've read my whole reply as I wasnt referencing his goalscoring. If you take the last 10 games Gregory has started we've averaged 2.3 points per game, thats as good as any period all season and if you make a slight assumption that he's grown into the role, got fitter and is now established in the team, evidence that we don't lose any more with him playing (we lost 1 of the 10 - Wycombe) and it's our best period for goals scored so we have scored more. We've also conceded slightly more than our best period, but I don't think that suggests in any way that we are better off starting without him. 2.3 points per game would cruise the league. I also don't necessarily subscribe to the view we've built our tactics to support him, I think they've happened more due to what DM realised was and wasn't working, including things like realising BB is better as a midfielder with 2 sitting behind him and that JH and MJ are both best employed as wing backs. When DM stopped playing the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 type formation it wasn't because of Gregory, there were several factors involved.

OK, I'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I've written at length as to why tactically he unbalances us, why we're great against some teams but very weak v others, so I won't go into it again.

 

Yes, he's had a good couple of games, but they we're against a team that survived on goal difference and a team that switched off after 5 minutes.

 

Since he's been back, yes, we've battered a couple of teams, but we've struggled tactically against any defence that presses and won points with set pieces and individual quality.

 

If we go up, we won't have the advantage of better quality players than the opposition. 

Tactically, can we afford to play a slow biild up game that's weak to counters, be one dimensional in attack, not press all game, and defend from the front?

What we're playing now looks nice, but if we play like we have thos last two months in the championship, we'll come straight back down.

[Quickly Kevin]

6 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

OK, I'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I've written at length as to why tactically he unbalances us, why we're great against some teams but very weak v others, so I won't go into it again.

 

Yes, he's had a good couple of games, but they we're against a team that survived on goal difference and a team that switched off after 5 minutes.

 

Since he's been back, yes, we've battered a couple of teams, but we've struggled tactically against any defence that presses and won points with set pieces and individual quality.

 

If we go up, we won't have the advantage of better quality players than the opposition. 

Tactically, can we afford to play a slow biild up game that's weak to counters, be one dimensional in attack, not press all game, and defend from the front?

What we're playing now looks nice, but if we play like we have thos last two months in the championship, we'll come straight back down.

 

Your posts are based in utter drivel to be kind. You completely imagine how a load of games would have definitely changed both up front and at the back. This was based on the fact that worse finishers would score chances and they would provide heroics at the back.

 

Quite how any Wednesday fan can knock his last 2 performances is beyond me. They have been brillant and he showed his class. 

 

Would Paterson or Kamberi outscore him over the season or score the type of goals he does?

 

And how we play now looks nice? Since the turn of the year we have been winning and banging in the goals. There is no reason a 3-5-2  doesnt work at a higher level.

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, Quickly Kevin said:

 

Your posts are based in utter drivel to be kind. You completely imagine how a load of games would have definitely changed both up front and at the back. This was based on the fact that worse finishers would score chances and they would provide heroics at the back.

 

Quite how any Wednesday fan can knock his last 2 performances is beyond me. They have been brillant and he showed his class. 

 

Would Paterson or Kamberi outscore him over the season or score the type of goals he does?

 

And how we play now looks nice? Since the turn of the year we have been winning and banging in the goals. There is no reason a 3-5-2  doesnt work at a higher level.

I haven't imagined it, it actually happened, when he was injured. Our tactics changed when he got injured, then changed right back when he came back, with matching results.

We play differently when he plays.

 

Team form prior: WDDWLLWL

When he was out: WWWWLWWW

When he got back: LWDDWWDW

 

Haven't knocked his last two games. He's a good player, it's just that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. 

 

Given the gametime he had, with a guaranteed spot regardless of performance? I'd have happily put money on either of them topping him.

We've banged in the goals since he's been back, but more than half of them have been in three games.

 

If we're so great in attack, why did we need a pen v Crewe, a corner v Bolton, got nothing at Gillingham or Wycombe, 2 corners and the goal of the season v MK? 2 of the goals v fleetwood were because they'd not switched on yet but fair play to Gregory for taking advantage, then we needed corners to beat Portsmouth who just sat back after 5 minutes and let us play around them.

 

Without the 10 set piece goals in 12 games since he came back, we'd have taken 16 points from 12 games.

 

You seriously think that'll rub in the Championship?

[BIG D]

What a load of nonsense

[Quickly Kevin]

6 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

I haven't imagined it, it actually happened, when he was injured. Our tactics changed when he got injured, then changed right back when he came back, with matching results.

We play differently when he plays.

 

Team form prior: WDDWLLWL

When he was out: WWWWLWWW

When he got back: LWDDWWDW

 

Haven't knocked his last two games. He's a good player, it's just that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. 

 

Given the gametime he had, with a guaranteed spot regardless of performance? I'd have happily put money on either of them topping him.

We've banged in the goals since he's been back, but more than half of them have been in three games.

 

If we're so great in attack, why did we need a pen v Crewe, a corner v Bolton, got nothing at Gillingham or Wycombe, 2 corners and the goal of the season v MK? 2 of the goals v fleetwood were because they'd not switched on yet but fair play to Gregory for taking advantage, then we needed corners to beat Portsmouth who just sat back after 5 minutes and let us play around them.

 

Without the 10 set piece goals in 12 games since he came back, we'd have taken 16 points from 12 games.

 

You seriously think that'll rub in the Championship?

 

Honestly the state of this. There is no point debating with someone who talks down goals cause they are from corners or because opposition weren't switched on blah blah. You do know you need to attack to win a corner or get a pen?

 

And why are you knocking Bannans goal. Seriously just wind your neck in.

 

As for the Championship we will offload some players, keep some and sign some new players. But the 3-5-2 will stay.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Quickly Kevin

[@owlstalk]

 

 

Guys - keep it friendly

Remember everyone has their own opinions n that

 

 

[Quickly Kevin]

And Kamberi and Paterson work hard but are not at Gregorys level as forwards.

[Quickly Kevin]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Guys - keep it friendly

Remember everyone has their own opinions n that

 

 

 

Coming from you!

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, Quickly Kevin said:

 

Honestly the state of this. There is no point debating with someone who talks down goals cause they are from corners or because opposition weren't switched on blah blah. You do know you need to attack to win a corner or get a pen?

 

And why are you knocking Bannans goal. Seriously just wind your neck in.

 

As for the Championship we will offload some players, keep some and sign some new players. But the 3-5-2 will stay.

 

Yhe conversation you jumped into was about Gregory coping physically next year in the Championship, when he's another year older,  after missing a third of this season and not being able to keep up with the workrate of our other forwards off the ball.

 

I'm pointing out that he's not exactly setting the world alight down here with regards to team results.

 

Of course where the goals come from matters.

If we just need someone to score corners, we would be better off playing Dunkley up front.

 

Where did I knock Bannan's goal? I said it was needed to beat MK, meaning we needed something out of the ordinary.

It was a compliment.

 

352 should stay, it's a good formation, never said it wasn't. 

 

As for Kamberi and Pato working hard, welcome to 2022, where modern tactics, including the 352, are based on defending from the front, high press and workrate.

Gone are the days of having a man who's just there to score goals, seperate attacking and defending units.

It's now all about 11 men in attack and 11 men in defence.

The biggest change when Gregory plays is in defence, where we concede about 40% more goals when he plays.

[Tewkesbury]

18 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Guys - keep it friendly

Remember everyone has their own opinions n that

 

 

Pato is fair game,

Criticise Gregory? No.

Hypocritical.

[@owlstalk]

5 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Pato is fair game,

Criticise Gregory? No.

Hypocritical.

 

Not sure who you're arguing with here - I've just defended your right to have an opinion!

[SiJ]

Is this bloke still going on about Gregory? 

 

What an oddball. 

 

Go and watch Frozen and let it f*cking go. 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said:

OK, I'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I've written at length as to why tactically he unbalances us, why we're great against some teams but very weak v others, so I won't go into it again.

 

Yes, he's had a good couple of games, but they we're against a team that survived on goal difference and a team that switched off after 5 minutes.

 

Since he's been back, yes, we've battered a couple of teams, but we've struggled tactically against any defence that presses and won points with set pieces and individual quality.

 

If we go up, we won't have the advantage of better quality players than the opposition. 

Tactically, can we afford to play a slow biild up game that's weak to counters, be one dimensional in attack, not press all game, and defend from the front?

What we're playing now looks nice, but if we play like we have thos last two months in the championship, we'll come straight back down.

I'm cool with you agreeing to disagree , I like that you've based your original posts (I've read them) on observations and data and there could be some validity to them. I'm just less convinced. Genuinely, if we do go up it would be interesting to see how DM views our striker options. I think we have the weakest forward line of the top 8, I may have changed that view if Windass had have been fit, but I don't think we have the best balance of forwards. Going up leaves us with a conundrum.as you could argue for keeping 3-4 of them, but I think we'd need at least 2 new strikers who hopefully would be first choice. 

[Quickly Kevin]

9 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

 

If we just need someone to score corners, we would be better off playing Dunkley up front.

 

 

 

I'll leave it here folks.

[Tewkesbury]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not sure who you're arguing with here - I've just defended your right to have an opinion!

It was about the general opinions on this site, not you.

Sorry.

Hard to make it clear in 17 syllables. 

[Tewkesbury]

16 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I'm cool with you agreeing to disagree , I like that you've based your original posts (I've read them) on observations and data and there could be some validity to them. I'm just less convinced. Genuinely, if we do go up it would be interesting to see how DM views our striker options. I think we have the weakest forward line of the top 8, I may have changed that view if Windass had have been fit, but I don't think we have the best balance of forwards. Going up leaves us with a conundrum.as you could argue for keeping 3-4 of them, but I think we'd need at least 2 new strikers who hopefully would be first choice. 

The issue as I see it is that we have 5-6 secondary or support strikers, who would play off someone else, but no primary striker.

 

I'd keep Pato for his utility, he'll be vital tactically next season if we do go up, as he can fill in or plug any gaps. Windass for the pace and Gregory as sub. Berahino, still not too sure.

 

But we really need to get a main striker, probably two.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Tewkesbury

[Guest Willow Owl]

18 hours ago, ANDY said:

 

I always thought he’d played a league game for us albeit a sub appearance. 

You’re right, I stand corrected 13 mins v Reading. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

18 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

After coming through the academy, Hirst signed his first professional contract for Sheffield Wednesday in March 2016.[

 

He made his first team debut against Cambridge United on 9 August 2016, in the EFL Cup in a 2–1 defeat.

 

His league debut came on 10 December 2016 against Reading in a 2–1 defeat.

 

 

Never mentioned the cup. 

Okay, I stand corrected in the league, 13 mins v Reading in  2016 ( nearly 6 years ago ). I now understand why we have had numerous threads in the last few years, a legend he is. 

Can’t wait for him to resign for us in the championship so he can improve on his 0 in 30 odd games. 
I’ve nearly weed myself with the excitement. 

 

My point still stands; why ?

[@owlstalk]

8 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

Never mentioned the cup. 

Okay, I stand corrected in the league, 13 mins v Reading in  2016 ( nearly 6 years ago ). I now understand why we have had numerous threads in the last few years, a legend he is. 

Can’t wait for him to resign for us in the championship so he can improve on his 0 in 30 odd games. 
I’ve nearly weed myself with the excitement. 

 

My point still stands; why ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't worry about it

Just watch this video then move along

[Emerson Thome]

5 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

The biggest change when Gregory plays is in defence, where we concede about 40% more goals when he plays.

 

I really don't think this is down to Gregory - unless Sylla Sow or Saido Berahino are doing some amazing defensive work up front imperceptible to all but the most astute footballing eyes.

 

The simple explanation is Gregory got injured at the end of January. This was around the time Sam Hutchinson came back from injury, and we signed Jordan Storey (plus Harlee Dean, though he hasn't played much). It also just so happened, due to the cancelled fixtures, we had a really unbalanced run of fixtures in February, with 6 home games and only 2 away (vs Doncaster & Burton, who aren't very good). So we are much better at home than away and much better when we play with established centre halves rather than Neymarv, Patto and Brennan in a back 3.