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Big six" sink PL's attempted reforms


darra

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11 hours ago, owlinexile said:

Christ.

 

That's more of a convoluted mess than the Papa John's Trophy.

 

So what happens when one year Barcelona are 'drawn' to play against the champions of Scotland, Lithuania, Slovenia, Tottenham etc and Real Madrid get Man City, PSG, Bayern Munich, and Liverpool?  What kind of a ******** 'league' is that?

Say that happens, move it on a step.. the top teams will say they don't need the smaller clubs from Scotland, Lithuania ect. They will point to attendances, tele audience and then  try again to have a closed shop. All the top clubs want is all the revenue no thought for supporters.

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17 minutes ago, Mid Wicket said:

Say that happens, move it on a step.. the top teams will say they don't need the smaller clubs from Scotland, Lithuania ect. They will point to attendances, tele audience and then  try again to have a closed shop. All the top clubs want is all the revenue no thought for supporters.

You might be right. 

 

On the other hand, I think part of the reason why UEFA is always so keep to "open up" the Champions League to lesser sides is actually because it's usually a great way of ensuring the top teams get through to the knockout stages. 

 

The whole thing is a massive money making exercise. The competitive side is almost a façade at times. 

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I wish they would just have the balls to start a world super league, have your big big clubs joined by franchises from various places around the world like New York, Shanghai, Doha then leave us idiots who like normal football to just compete amongst ourselves. Why do we need disruption from the CL any further than it does already? 

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31 minutes ago, Mid Wicket said:

Say that happens, move it on a step.. the top teams will say they don't need the smaller clubs from Scotland, Lithuania ect. They will point to attendances, tele audience and then  try again to have a closed shop. All the top clubs want is all the revenue no thought for supporters.

 

No doubt.

 

But I just don't get it.

 

Cozy little cartels tend to find that their product goes stale and they eventually end up getting unseated by some fast-moving disruptor out of nowhere that they didn't even see coming.  It's even happening in real-time to Mark Zuckerberg right now as we watch, and he used to BE the disruptor.  Football isn't the only form of entertainment out there.

 

The Champions League is already utterly boring and predictable with the same old teams playing each other every season as it is.  Everything they are doing will only serve to make that worse.

 

Genuine competition, underdog stories and weird, unpredictable stuff happening is the exact thing that makes a sport exciting.

 

Since we were last in the Premiership, there are two seasons I can literally remember anything about.  The one where Arsenal were unbeaten all season, and the one where Leicester won it.  I couldn't even tell you who won it last year without looking it up. 

 

But instead of going 'awesome - new life has been breathed into the ever-more moribund product we all rely on for our livelihood!', these so-called Big Clubs immediately got together to try and work out how they could fix it so nothing so disruptive could ever happen again.  

 

But it ******** will.  It might even come from outside football.  And they will be too busy throwing each other off over nice dinners inside their little fortress like the SWFC board of directors in Dave Allen's day to even see it coming.

 

 

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On 22/02/2022 at 02:59, Geedee said:

It used to be big 5 and then everton got replaced by City and chelsea

Did it? 

 

When was this? 

 

Spurs certainly were never in the 'big 5' at the expense of City or chelsea

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13 hours ago, owlinexile said:

Christ.

 

That's more of a convoluted mess than the Papa John's Trophy.

 

So what happens when one year Barcelona are 'drawn' to play against the champions of Scotland, Lithuania, Slovenia, Tottenham etc and Real Madrid get Man City, PSG, Bayern Munich, and Liverpool?  What kind of a ******** 'league' is that?

I'd imagine the teams would be seeded for the inital draw too to give them the best chances of going through. 

 

******** idea mind. 

 

 

I'd like football to go back to CL being just for the winners. 

 

Cup winners Cup which is a straight knock out 

 

Uefa Cup a 2 legged straught knock out cup, which is seeded for those 32-64 teams not good enough to make the 16 CL spots. 

 

 

Bin the europa league and conference testicles which nobody, even the teams competing have any interest in 

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9 minutes ago, fudge27 said:

Did it? 

 

When was this? 

 

Spurs certainly were never in the 'big 5' at the expense of City or chelsea

Yeah, they were. 

 

Big 5 prior to the PL was Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton. 

 

They were the 5 who were the main driving force behind the PL. 

 

City, Chelsea etc., were nowhere near the size of clubs they are now back in 1992. 

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City and Chelsea are part of this wave of uber rich clubs who crowbarred there way into the traditional top club's clique. 

 

I think a part of why we are seeing these joke reforms to the Champions League is because of clubs like City, Chelsea, PSG and then you have other sides who have rocked the boat by just being quite well run and getting their house in order like an Atalanta. 

 

As a result, some of the traditional "big" clubs don't have that season by season guarantee of getting in the Champions League and they know full well that a season or two our of the competition can set them back years when compared with their rivals. As a result, we get talk of Super Leagues and now coefficients in the Champions League to try and stop this. 

 

The whole thing is a sham. 

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4 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Yeah, they were. 

 

Big 5 prior to the PL was Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton. 

 

They were the 5 who were the main driving force behind the PL. 

 

City, Chelsea etc., were nowhere near the size of clubs they are now back in 1992. 

May have been by youthfulness growing up, but I cannot fathom how Everton were part of that group in that era over Villa or Newcastle? 

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Just now, fudge27 said:

May have been by youthfulness growing up, but I cannot fathom how Everton were part of that group in that era over Villa or Newcastle? 

I will give you Villa, but Everton are a much bigger club that Newcastle in so many ways. 

 

Remember that Everton were the second most successful English side during the 1980s and won league titles, European silverware etc. 

 

Prior to the Premier League, they had more top flight titles to their name than Manchester United. 

 

Personally, I think Newcastle's perceived size is in part due to them having that good run under Keegan when the Premier League was just taking off. They've won the sweet sum of f*ck all, though that might well change with the investment. 

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Big fanbase too Everton. 

 

Lot of supporters in Wales, Ireland etc. 

 

Don't think they'll have any issues with selling out that new stadium. 

 

They've just massively underperformed for most of the PL era, bar that really good side under Moyes. 

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I remember Everton being a solid team, but also in the 90s more of a level nearer the lower half of the league. 

 

In that time Id class spurs, Everton, villa, Newcastle, Leeds and maybe even us as a similar level, we'd just about scrape in though, guess the 80s dominace was before my time hence the lack of seeing Everton as a power akin to arsenal, man Utd etc. 

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As SIJ says , Everton were one of the elite clubs pre the Premier era. Manchester City,Chelsea, Villa and Newcastle were nowhere near the size of Everton.

 

Everton have had fewer seasons out of the top flight than any other club ( I seem to recall its 4).

 

Simalar to Wednesday ( But not as badly )  they messed up by staying  tradtional club in an era where clubs like Citiy are owned by the richest people in the world.

 

When they move ground I think a big investor will come in for them.

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I dont understand why the "English" clubs want to give away there advantage. The premier league is filthy rich and the Spanish / Italian giants are destroying themselves trying to keep pace. 

 

Also the main selling point of the premier league is competition and they want to pull that apart. 

 

Same as others have said I hope they clear off. People support these clubs because they win things if bumped from the domestic competitions that's a lot of clubs who wont be winning anything. Fans in the US/China/Middle East wont support a club finishing bottom of the new format no matter how shiny the tournament is. 

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22 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I will give you Villa, but Everton are a much bigger club that Newcastle in so many ways. 

 

Remember that Everton were the second most successful English side during the 1980s and won league titles, European silverware etc. 

 

Prior to the Premier League, they had more top flight titles to their name than Manchester United. 

 

Personally, I think Newcastle's perceived size is in part due to them having that good run under Keegan when the Premier League was just taking off. They've won the sweet sum of f*ck all, though that might well change with the investment. 

Isn't there a statistic that's something like Manchester United hadn't won the league one title for 26 years? Along came the premier league and the big bucks and they couldn't stop winning it.

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27 minutes ago, HighworthOwl said:

I dont understand why the "English" clubs want to give away there advantage. The premier league is filthy rich and the Spanish / Italian giants are destroying themselves trying to keep pace. 

 

Also the main selling point of the premier league is competition and they want to pull that apart. 

 

Same as others have said I hope they clear off. People support these clubs because they win things if bumped from the domestic competitions that's a lot of clubs who wont be winning anything. Fans in the US/China/Middle East wont support a club finishing bottom of the new format no matter how shiny the tournament is. 

Because leagues peak and trough potentially? Like through the 90s and 2000s it was Italy then Spain which always had the big clubs and biggest transfer fees.
I remember I used to mess around on games making super league’s and would only have Man Utd/Arsenal sometimes Liverpool in them and about 7 Italian clubs- Juventus, Milan clubs Rome clubs seemed huge at the time then you’d have some of the others too, Fiorentina and Parma seemed low down the pecking order compared to that lot but always seemed to have some huge names. 
Spain had a similar period too with the usual teams and Valencia, Deportivo etc.

if the teams that are big now group together they’ve got a good chance to secure success for sometime to come. It’s those that get in while somethings on point that benefit, look at us how left behind we have been with our awful period coinciding with them PL boom. If this happened in the early 90s it would probably be a completely different story for us.

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