Half way through the season... thoughts?

[jonnyowl]

1 hour ago, Marro said:

I would love us to get promoted.  An inability to achieve that is not necessarily failure IMO.  

Irrespective of people’s views of DM’s ability as a manager, what do people realistically expect coming off the back of a relegation where we have had to assemble a team by signing players on frees and utilising the loan market.

 

 I think as fans we often lose perspective.  Our fan base has for many years always considered our players better than they actually are.

 

People say now we have a team of Championship players.  How good were they in the Championship in recent times and how often did they play?  I’ve not looked at the stats but suspect that they were not as successful as many on Owlstalk consider.

Well I suppose the only difference between me and you is I have higher expectations and dont want to be stuck in this poxy league any longer than what we have to.

[Guest Mad Mik]

48 minutes ago, graz gp said:

Certainly not Moore. If you think that performance is ok, good luck.uto

I haven't said it was, it was bobbins,, just fed up of people saying get the new messiah in ,when there isn't one ,,, so Who then ???

[Marro]

44 minutes ago, jonnyowl said:

Well I suppose the only difference between me and you is I have higher expectations and dont want to be stuck in this poxy league any longer than what we have to.

I don’t like this league one bit and want us to get out of it as soon as possible.  If I could wave a magic wand we would be promoted this season.  Expectations have to be realistic and a lot of the time I don’t think us fans are.

 

Newcastle United have been taken over by billionaire owners.  I’m sure most Newcastle fans expect them to win the Premier League next year!  Despite their new found wealth (and subject to everything going smoothly) it could take them at least 5 years to start to challenge for the Premier League let alone be in with a realistic shout of winning it.

[brando]

10 hours ago, striker said:

Half way through the season, a good time to take stock and reflect. 

 

As we stand a mid table team, 5 points off the top 6, 10 points off the top 2. 

 

While not mathematically unachievable, we couldn't make 6 points up on teams at the bottom of the league, losing most games last season over the whole of last. season, so unlikely to make up sufficient points against teams at the top of a league who are winning most weeks over the remaining games.

 

I've seen every one of our games, league 1 is not complex and the difference between us and the top 6 is that those teams play to their strengths. By and large that involves closing down, getting the ball forward quickly and utliilising what pace they have.

 

We still don't look comfortable, offer nowhere near enough up front, don't score enough goals and defensively look confused and always likely to concede.

 

We have shown we are at our best playing with a high tempo, closing down and attacking. Still, consistently we do not do this, favouring possession between defenders, always looking for a backwards pass than looking forwards. 

 

We don't play to our strengths, have pacey wingers playing as wing backs, meaning they are often in no man's land, ineffective and despite having an extra man in midfield still leave gaps the size of the grand canyon for the opposition to run through unopposed.

 

That said, we have shown the capacity to roll over teams at will when we want, such is the poor quality of this league,  but just don't do it with any consistency or confidence. 

 

Our wins seem to be a sense of relief and surprise to the team, draws our comfort zone and losses brushed off as 'one of those days'. 

 

Moore by nature is pragmatic, nothing is ever urgent, not even last season as we drifted towards this situation when games were never must win despite our dire predicament. That culture follows through onto the pitch, there doesn't seem any urgency or desire, it's always a case of 'oh, ok we'll work on it for the next game' but soon games will be running out.

 

We look a.mid table team and suspect that's how we'll finish the season. 

 

That will only change with a change of manager or approach from the current one. There is literally nothing to lose now this season. It's time to go balls to the wall, attack with a high tempo, high press and try to outscore the opposition.

 

My opinion, a change of manager gives us the best chance of doing that because I don't think Moore can evolve beyond this boring, pragmatic ideology. That said, don't have anyone in mind or any confidence that the owner is competent enough to appoint the right manager.

 

I expect we could finish the season now and we'd end up in the same league position. Just happens we have to sit through 23 more games to stand still 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent very true post..

[Daz]

Disappointed. Not looked convincing in the vast majority of matches. Not really attacked and been happier playing it out slowly allowing the opposition to organize. 

 

Think we are better than we have shown so far and think the manager is the one responsible for our lacklustre performances. 

 

Poor half of a season and not being cut adrift from the play-offs as other teams know how to win more than we do. 

[31Dec1966]

Superb opening post.

Trouble is we've been changing managers/players/owners for a quarter of a century. And nothing ever changes . 

Nevertheless, I would sack Moore tomorrow.

I have never had any confidence in Moore. I wanted Lowe. Moore has no track record and is totally unable to inspire players and fans. His tactics, selections and substitutions are terrible, even allowing for the circumstances. I would ask Gary Megson to take over this season with a remit to fight to perhaps scrape into 6th place. Some might find this unpalatable, even amusing, but I would prefer GM to DM any day  .

[room0035]

10 hours ago, striker said:

Half way through the season, a good time to take stock and reflect. 

 

As we stand a mid table team, 5 points off the top 6, 10 points off the top 2. 

 

While not mathematically unachievable, we couldn't make 6 points up on teams at the bottom of the league, losing most games last season over the whole of last. season, so unlikely to make up sufficient points against teams at the top of a league who are winning most weeks over the remaining games.

 

I've seen every one of our games, league 1 is not complex and the difference between us and the top 6 is that those teams play to their strengths. By and large that involves closing down, getting the ball forward quickly and utliilising what pace they have.

 

We still don't look comfortable, offer nowhere near enough up front, don't score enough goals and defensively look confused and always likely to concede.

 

We have shown we are at our best playing with a high tempo, closing down and attacking. Still, consistently we do not do this, favouring possession between defenders, always looking for a backwards pass than looking forwards. 

 

We don't play to our strengths, have pacey wingers playing as wing backs, meaning they are often in no man's land, ineffective and despite having an extra man in midfield still leave gaps the size of the grand canyon for the opposition to run through unopposed.

 

That said, we have shown the capacity to roll over teams at will when we want, such is the poor quality of this league,  but just don't do it with any consistency or confidence. 

 

Our wins seem to be a sense of relief and surprise to the team, draws our comfort zone and losses brushed off as 'one of those days'. 

 

Moore by nature is pragmatic, nothing is ever urgent, not even last season as we drifted towards this situation when games were never must win despite our dire predicament. That culture follows through onto the pitch, there doesn't seem any urgency or desire, it's always a case of 'oh, ok we'll work on it for the next game' but soon games will be running out.

 

We look a.mid table team and suspect that's how we'll finish the season. 

 

That will only change with a change of manager or approach from the current one. There is literally nothing to lose now this season. It's time to go balls to the wall, attack with a high tempo, high press and try to outscore the opposition.

 

My opinion, a change of manager gives us the best chance of doing that because I don't think Moore can evolve beyond this boring, pragmatic ideology. That said, don't have anyone in mind or any confidence that the owner is competent enough to appoint the right manager.

 

I expect we could finish the season now and we'd end up in the same league position. Just happens we have to sit through 23 more games to stand still 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think DC will have the conviction of Milan, to sack the manager and bring in a manager with experience of promotion.

 

Or will we drift to a nothing season ending with a mid table finish at best and another year in league one.

 

for me I would get rid of Moore bring in a competent manager to get us promotion then rebuild the team in the summer. I just cannot see us suddenly going on a run of wins to get into the top 6, even now 23 games in, Moore is still playing too many players out of position and Paterson has never been and will never be the source of goals.

 

This group of players should easily be top 3 or 4 in a very weak league. Play 4-4-2.  wingers on the wing and full back at full back we would be stronger,  two strikers up front with service, we score goals. Centre backs at centre back not full backs or wingers.

 

Managers better than what we have Karanka, Lennon, Neil, McCarthy, Cook, Farke to name a few. Oh and of course Bruce

[doubleo]

I fear that Moore will respond to the thrashing by being even more defensive. I wanted him so much to be successful but after 6 months we have a defence that looks unorganised, a midfield that creates little, and we are ineffective as an attacking force. Lost contact with the top 2, top 6 slipping away. I’d be looking for a replacement now with a view to him taking over when it’s mathematically impossible for promotion - about Easter I reckon. I’m sorry but I don’t see mid table of this sh*te division as satisfactory or progress.

[parajack]

3 hours ago, Marro said:

As I said, I don’t expect us to win 4 on the trot.  It could happen but is unlikely.  I do expect to see an improvement second half of the season.  I do t think that is too much to expect.

This is a poor League so yes we will win/draw some match's lose despite DM Tactics.. others  it wont be good enough and DM  could do so much better with this squad.

Anything less than a play off spot would in my view deserve the 'tin tack'...

Why? because as loan signings leave and contracts end,we will see little chance of doing better moving forward..next season...

Why cant we set up to attack and entertain? get the ball forward quickly,and cross into the box? Why does BB have to take every set piece?

Whats happened to Pattersons long throw?....what do we have to lose by throwing the kitchen sink at sides now?

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by parajack

[striker]

5 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Do you think DC will have the conviction of Milan, to sack the manager and bring in a manager with experience of promotion.

 

Or will we drift to a nothing season ending with a mid table finish at best and another year in league one.

 

for me I would get rid of Moore bring in a competent manager to get us promotion then rebuild the team in the summer. I just cannot see us suddenly going on a run of wins to get into the top 6, even now 23 games in, Moore is still playing too many players out of position and Paterson has never been and will never be the source of goals.

 

This group of players should easily be top 3 or 4 in a very weak league. Play 4-4-2.  wingers on the wing and full back at full back we would be stronger,  two strikers up front with service, we score goals. Centre backs at centre back not full backs or wingers.

 

Managers better than what we have Karanka, Lennon, Neil, McCarthy, Cook, Farke to name a few. Oh and of course Bruce

I said months ago that this season has the air of when Dave Jones took over and got us promoted.

 

I think Chansiri will let it drift, because he hasn't got a clue what to do, until it's too late and then panics.

 

We aren't going down, we aren't going up. Fresh impetus however may just give us a chance of going up. As things stand we are just drifting, usually hard to beat, occassionally win, but not often enough.

[nethertonowl]

10 hours ago, alanharper said:

Top 3 squad on paper, hampered by injuries but shackled by a manager who shoehorns half the team into unnatural positions to stubbornly accommodate a 3 CB system that largely yields neither positive results nor cohesive performances. 

Whilst collecting too many players who had promising early careers but have failed to produce  for years or have  bad attitudes and Moore thinks he can make em sparkle again. Sadly attitude and commitment is lacking in most. He would be far better with a few less technical players with guts, hunger and attitude.

 

Replace the likes of Wing, Berahino,  Mendez lang , with  people like Patterson from Harrogate   

[Manwë]

15 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Bit of a cheap shot that, given that even if we'd won every game by double figures we'd only be 45th. And the reasons we are in the third tier to begin with rest largely at a higher level of the club than the team manager.

But we're not 45th, so it's not like we are hitting the ceiling imposed by the league.  

 

We're not even 50th.  It's beyond us.

 

As for the team manager, we were just a few points off safety when he took over.  He didn't do any worse than his predecessors but didn't do much better either.  Hence we are now in League One.  He played his part, willingly.

 

His win ratio is 34%, slightly higher than Monk and Jos, but approximately half of his games are in the division below the other two.

 

We're too nice a fanbase to demand better, from managers and owners alike.

[legendaryswan]

The summer recruitment was done under restriction due to EFL imposing sanctions because of our failure to pay wages on time and failed attempts at bending the accounts. As such we wont havent looked an appealing move for out of contract players wed have liked to sign, so we ended up scraping the bottom of the barrel for a squad, and thats reflected out on the pitch where we get very inconsistent performances both individually and collectively, plus some of the players wed have liked were in negotiations with other clubs while we were awaiting clearance from the EFL to begin assembling a squad,

Add to that a manager thats not the sharpest tactically, but doing his best to make a fist from the poor hand he was dealt, so the side chops and changes along with formations, throw in injuries and players losing form.

Its easy to blame the manager, but a few of these players are capable of raising their games a few notches and working harder in training to improve  the areas they lack.

All in all were in a higher position in the table than I expected wed be, given the summers recruitment, but alas as a club we are a long way off being title challengers and will be for a considerable length of time unless we initiate a really strong, aggressive and progressive recruitment policy, which I dont see DC implementing.

[the monk]

11 hours ago, Mad Mik said:

I haven't said it was, it was bobbins,, just fed up of people saying get the new messiah in ,when there isn't one ,,, so Who then ???

You are fed up of people saying "Get the new Messiah in" ? 

As anyone actually said it ?

 

[brando]

2 hours ago, Manwë said:

But we're not 45th, so it's not like we are hitting the ceiling imposed by the league.  

 

We're not even 50th.  It's beyond us.

 

As for the team manager, we were just a few points off safety when he took over.  He didn't do any worse than his predecessors but didn't do much better either.  Hence we are now in League One.  He played his part, willingly.

 

His win ratio is 34%, slightly higher than Monk and Jos, but approximately half of his games are in the division below the other two.

 

We're too nice a fanbase to demand better, from managers and owners alike.

Spot on...

[Athelwulf]

11 hours ago, striker said:

I said months ago that this season has the air of when Dave Jones took over and got us promoted.

 

I think Chansiri will let it drift, because he hasn't got a clue what to do, until it's too late and then panics.

 

We aren't going down, we aren't going up. Fresh impetus however may just give us a chance of going up. As things stand we are just drifting, usually hard to beat, occassionally win, but not often enough.

 

Good points.

 

A good question to ask is “What would Mandy do in these circumstances?”

 

As he said to the press corps after sacking Megson and appointing Dave Jones - “Look guys, I want promotion.”

 

’Bye Daz.

 

[adelphi1867]

On 31/12/2021 at 10:53, striker said:

Half way through the season, a good time to take stock and reflect. 

 

As we stand a mid table team, 5 points off the top 6, 10 points off the top 2. 

 

While not mathematically unachievable, we couldn't make 6 points up on teams at the bottom of the league, losing most games last season over the whole of last. season, so unlikely to make up sufficient points against teams at the top of a league who are winning most weeks over the remaining games.

 

I've seen every one of our games, league 1 is not complex and the difference between us and the top 6 is that those teams play to their strengths. By and large that involves closing down, getting the ball forward quickly and utliilising what pace they have.

 

We still don't look comfortable, offer nowhere near enough up front, don't score enough goals and defensively look confused and always likely to concede.

 

We have shown we are at our best playing with a high tempo, closing down and attacking. Still, consistently we do not do this, favouring possession between defenders, always looking for a backwards pass than looking forwards. 

 

We don't play to our strengths, have pacey wingers playing as wing backs, meaning they are often in no man's land, ineffective and despite having an extra man in midfield still leave gaps the size of the grand canyon for the opposition to run through unopposed.

 

That said, we have shown the capacity to roll over teams at will when we want, such is the poor quality of this league,  but just don't do it with any consistency or confidence. 

 

Our wins seem to be a sense of relief and surprise to the team, draws our comfort zone and losses brushed off as 'one of those days'. 

 

Moore by nature is pragmatic, nothing is ever urgent, not even last season as we drifted towards this situation when games were never must win despite our dire predicament. That culture follows through onto the pitch, there doesn't seem any urgency or desire, it's always a case of 'oh, ok we'll work on it for the next game' but soon games will be running out.

 

We look a.mid table team and suspect that's how we'll finish the season. 

 

That will only change with a change of manager or approach from the current one. There is literally nothing to lose now this season. It's time to go balls to the wall, attack with a high tempo, high press and try to outscore the opposition.

 

My opinion, a change of manager gives us the best chance of doing that because I don't think Moore can evolve beyond this boring, pragmatic ideology. That said, don't have anyone in mind or any confidence that the owner is competent enough to appoint the right manager.

 

I expect we could finish the season now and we'd end up in the same league position. Just happens we have to sit through 23 more games to stand still 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, 23 games to play, a hell of a lot of football owt can happen, the January window will be important for a lot of Clubs.

We have already lost Wing for the rest of the season, so that free's up a place and money for a fresh player.

[adelphi1867]

4 hours ago, legendaryswan said:

The summer recruitment was done under restriction due to EFL imposing sanctions because of our failure to pay wages on time and failed attempts at bending the accounts. As such we wont havent looked an appealing move for out of contract players wed have liked to sign, so we ended up scraping the bottom of the barrel for a squad, and thats reflected out on the pitch where we get very inconsistent performances both individually and collectively, plus some of the players wed have liked were in negotiations with other clubs while we were awaiting clearance from the EFL to begin assembling a squad,

Add to that a manager thats not the sharpest tactically, but doing his best to make a fist from the poor hand he was dealt, so the side chops and changes along with formations, throw in injuries and players losing form.

Its easy to blame the manager, but a few of these players are capable of raising their games a few notches and working harder in training to improve  the areas they lack.

All in all were in a higher position in the table than I expected wed be, given the summers recruitment, but alas as a club we are a long way off being title challengers and will be for a considerable length of time unless we initiate a really strong, aggressive and progressive recruitment policy, which I dont see DC implementing.

100%

[Guest Mad Mik]

4 hours ago, the monk said:

You are fed up of people saying "Get the new Messiah in" ? 

As anyone actually said it ?

 

You've got eyes haven't you,, loads of posts straight after the Sunderland defeat are wanting Moore out, but at what cost n who

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

19 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

8th in league, 5 points off playoffs, 10 points off automatic, not good enough really!

 

19 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

Anything other than promotion is total failure!

 

16 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

Well I suppose the only difference between me and you is I have higher expectations and dont want to be stuck in this poxy league any longer than what we have to.

 

You've changed your tune!

 

 

On 05/07/2021 at 06:11, jonnyowl said:

I predict Wednesday will finish 14th