The end of the world?

[blueandwhitematt]

In previous league 1 campaigns, I’d agree. Leagues have been strong and we’ve cobbled together absolutely bang average sides upon getting relegated. 
 

This time though, I can’t agree. Our goalkeeper is an international, we have players who played a heck of a lot of Championship football last season (Hunt, Palmer, Johnson, Paterson, Gregory, Wing), we have the most technically gifted player in the league in Bannan, one of the brightest loan players in the league in Corbeanu, we have highly rated young players such as Adeniran and Dele-Bashiru. And that’s before I’ve even touched upon the injured players who have played here and there (Hutchinson, Iorfa, Windass, Luongo). Put together isn’t a mid table League 1 nucleus of a squad.  And I’d hazard a guess the wages we’re paying out aren’t reflective of a mid table League 1 campaign either.

 

And the standard of this league is so poor compared to previous times we’ve been down. I’ve not seen one side I’ve thought wow they’re good, going to go up etc.  Teams have played well in patches then fell away, or vice versa.  The few times we’ve actually turned it on, I don’t think any side in the league comes close to us. Problem is that’s rarely strung together. And then we turn in performances like last night, or Plymouth away. 
 

I’m not necessarily saying Moore out, I’m probably ambivalent either way, but we need to demand a heck of a lot more out of this collection of players and the management than we are getting. 

[Philb125]

27 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

Self defeatist. 
 

Wonder where our budget ranks in this division, even if you remove Bannan as an outlier. 

 

This fanbase has a terminal illness. Pragmatism and realism is fine, even negativity if you want to call it that, but I don’t think I will ever feel comfortable with getting relegated and then thinking it’ll be a “miracle” just to finish mid table in the third division.

 

Hope is the absolute minimum any football fan should have. If we’re using terms like “over performing” and “miracle” for Moore’s current performance whilst settling for third division mediocrity then the club is done. 

This is how I feel, we get nowhere near the value for money that this squad should be delivering. 
 

For perspective, I googled using a salary site the Accrington starting XI salaries and they combined earn less than 13k. That’s what I imagine several of our players earn and some possibly double that.
 

They sit three points worse than us.

 

I don’t mind being shybo, I’m used to it. What I’m not so keen on is paying this bunch more individually than some of the teams we face earn as a collective and then seeing them throw in the towel.

 

If we were going to be a mid table team then why are we not blooding players like Waldock, the only other DCM in the squad instead of letting Bannan try his hand at that. Why are we playing any of the loanees, let’s develop our own players / assets. 
 

[Guest Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

i spent in the region of £150 and gave up 12 hours of my life…so yeah it was pretty poo to be fair mate!! 

You have my sympathy. Id have been there too if the Mrs hadn't forced me to go to Fuerteventura with her (26C on the patio for breakfast this morning - poached egg, mushrooms and bacon on toast)

[CircleSeven]

20 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I never ever understand those fans who get rage furious angrymad if we don’t win a game

 

Either there’s something really wrong in their personal life, or they’re just doing it to show off to the ‘lads lads lads’ who think it’s proper cool to out-angry each other 

 

It’s weird

 

And I’d bet that if they weren’t posting it online or shouting it in front of other people that they’d be sat calm as owt in their living room watching the game silently and then watch Mrs Browns Boys or summat and have a nice time 

 

 

Either way the angrymad for show thing… isn’t that a bit 1970s now?

 

Someone explain It all to me

It’s just internet stuff. In the main people only seem to express an extreme version of their opinion. Even the football crowd as it trudges out of a stadium after a defeat offers little more than a morose silence maybe peppered with a bit of gallows humour. Could you imagine an actual crowd of people, all leaving a stadium shouting at each other about how they ‘don’t accept that level  of performance’ etc. Wouldn’t happen. People just seem to use the internet to shout at each other. Maybe it’s cathartic for them or maybe it’s giving people stomach ulcers?
Either way I just watch the football either feel good or bad for a bit and then look forward to the next match. It is after all, only a game. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by CircleSeven

[Wednesday_Jack]

3 minutes ago, Grandad said:

You have my sympathy. Id have been there too if the Mrs hadn't forced me to go to Fuerteventura with her (26C on the patio for breakfast this morning - poached egg, mushrooms and bacon on toast)

you made the right choice mate

[ANDY]

3 minutes ago, Grandad said:

You have my sympathy. Id have been there too if the Mrs hadn't forced me to go to Fuerteventura with her (26C on the patio for breakfast this morning - poached egg, mushrooms and bacon on toast)

 

im glad you’re there too. 
 

if I was relying on you for a lift we would deffo be stuck in that traffic as you’re never on time 

 

 

[Guest Grandad]

Just now, ANDY said:

 

im glad you’re there too. 
 

if I was relying on you for a lift we would deffo be stuck in that traffic as you’re never on time 

 

 

We arrived at Birmingham airport with 68 mins to spare. (I'd read 0645 flight as quarter to eight. Never seen the Mrs run so fast )

[squonk]

33 minutes ago, Stripes or die said:

So in what way are my opinions unreasonable?

Why are you trying to position my views as "suicidal"? Because they differ to yours?

 

I'm not suicidal thank you very much but I do find last night's performance completely unacceptable. You may choose to try to defend it I will not. It is indefensible.

You are going to have to point out where I defended it because I’ve re read my posts and I don’t . My “suicidal” comment is a copycat use of the extreme nature of comments about a football match that many use on here after every poor performance, I did it for effect .

It’s your extrapolation of the fact that if someone posts something that I find reasonable that that means they are defending a devastatingly bad performance.

I am not, neither do I think Grandad is . I disagree with some of his points that he made but the context in which he placed a rubbish performance is where I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[darra]

43 minutes ago, hasthagotanycheese said:

It wasnt our first defeat in 3 months. We got absolutely spanked by those footballing behemoths Plymouth & Hartlepool  during that time.

 

Lets not forget that both Wycombe and Rotherham who came down with us last season are both having a much better go at bouncing back out of this poxy league at the first attempt than we are. With a fraction of our budget.

 

Going nowhere under Moore.

Have both Wycombe and Rotherham had to rebuild their sides with loan and freebie players and yet again our injury list is ridiculous?

It's the age old question. If we sack Moore who do we replace him with and who would take the job? 

 

[markg]

14 minutes ago, nickswfc said:

I don't particularly like Moore, his team selections have been questionable to say the least and if his team talks are anything like his interviews then it's hard to believe he inspires the players.

 

But

 

There's been a huge improvement in performances recently compared to the start of the season, so I'm willing to look at last night as a blip, if it continues for another five games it's a different conversation

 

The reaction last night reminds me of when we lost 5-1 to Stevenage in our promotion year

Pretty much how I see it

[sMacLean]

We are hardly in a Stuart Gray patch a side together situation.

 

Man for man our first 11 is better than that of Sunderland in my view.

 

 

[squonk]

Just now, sMacLean said:

We are hardly in a Stuart Gray patch a side together situation.

 

Man for man our first 11 is better than that of Sunderland in my view.

 

 

Don’t agree with that at all

 

I think Sunderland have been massive underachievers with the resources they have 

[squonk]

2 minutes ago, darra said:

Have both Wycombe and Rotherham had to rebuild their sides with loan and freebie players and yet again our injury list is ridiculous?

It's the age old question. If we sack Moore who do we replace him with and who would take the job? 

 

Both sides have had settled squads largely and doesn’t it show 

 

Rotherham’s work ethic in particular is epic and it’s a season in season out gripe of mine that Wednesday never appear, as a squad, to have that same ethic 

[Philb125]

2 minutes ago, sMacLean said:

We are hardly in a Stuart Gray patch a side together situation.

 

Man for man our first 11 is better than that of Sunderland in my view.

 

 

I agree with this on the whole. Most teams we play if you were to look at individuals position by position we should have enough. Unfortunately I just don’t think we have a better team than most. 
 

As a collective our highly paid players are just not that good. We regularly get out passed, out thought, out fought by inferior players. 
 

I had hoped this year we’d reset and offload a bunch of these superstars and swap to a collective of fresh blood, not tarnished by years of extortionate failure. 
 

But nope, the stench of failure lives strong with us and it will continue. We just keep making excuses for them, out of position, unwell, injured, low volume in their legs….. 

 

There are very few I’d be sorry to see leave in January. With only Dunkley, Palmer, FDB and adiniran fulling me with any sense of pride this year. 

[Guest Grandad]

Just now, Philb125 said:

I agree with this on the whole. Most teams we play if you were to look at individuals position by position we should have enough. Unfortunately I just don’t think we have a better team than most. 
 

As a collective our highly paid players are just not that good. We regularly get out passed, out thought, out fought by inferior players. 
 

I had hoped this year we’d reset and offload a bunch of these superstars and swap to a collective of fresh blood, not tarnished by years of extortionate failure. 
 

But nope, the stench of failure lives strong with us and it will continue. We just keep making excuses for them, out of position, unwell, injured, low volume in their legs….. 

 

There are very few I’d be sorry to see leave in January. With only Dunkley, Palmer, FDB and adiniran fulling me with any sense of pride this year. 

FDB and Adeniran are absolutely appalling players. Dunkkley is a liability. 

[Roy Of The Roasters]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

'Worked a miracle' is a bit strong in my opinion, but to expect a club in the state we were last summer, and one operating under EFL restrictions to boot, to immediately turn things around and challenge for automatic promotion, was never reasonable.

 

With our key players available, the top six should be achievable. Unfortunately, we've not had several of them available for the majority of the season so far, and it certainly showed in our defensive third last night.

 

Hopefully some of them return consistently for the second half of the season.

 

Thank you for a sensible and objective appraisal.

 

I don't think anyone is defending last nights performance, but considering we were on a 12 match unbeaten run and just outside the play offs I think some of the abuse directed at the manager is well over the top. Unfortunately, the 'Moore Out' mob will call for his head at any opportunity, so last night was rich pickings for them.

 

We beat Sunderland handsomely at our place. Did they sack their manager? Sometimes you have to accept these results, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on. As you say, we're a work in progress, trying to recover from the car crash that was last season, and progress needs to be judged over a couple of seasons not a single game. Yesterdays game was a setback, but not a reason to push the panic button. We were probably rusty, and playing in an in-form match fit team didn't help. There's half a season still to go and we're very much in touch with the right end of the league.

[Philb125]

Just now, Grandad said:

FDB and Adeniran are absolutely appalling players. Dunkkley is a liability. 

You're entitled to your opinion. 
 

Dunkley is our only player in the team of season rankings on independent stats sites and IMO has been immense this season. 
 

The other two, are I assume earning a fraction of what our more experienced players earn and have been a breath of fresh air for me. Look to run with the ball, run into space, sprinting like actually sprinting…. Now I know that should be standard but for several years now we’ve had players that prefer to play at a walking pace like statues of great players that we still admire and sing songs for. 
 

I’d take a team of these on the fractions that others earn and I’m sure we’d be not any worse off points wise. But we may not be losing tens of millions a year for the privilege.  

[FreshOwl]

5-0 in league 1 just shouldn’t happen under any circumstances. It’s more the embarrassment for me 

[Southie_Owl]

56 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said:

We’ve won 4 of our last 14 league games.

 

If that’s Moore overachieving I’d hate to see what Moore underachieving looks like.

Indeed,  personally I don’t agree that Moore is over achieving but happy to accept my opinion is wrong. If i was made to choose one of the 24 squads to manage in this league then Wednesday’s squad list of players would be one of the top 3 I would go with. Certainly over the likes of MK Dons, Oxford and Plymouth.  
 

because these 3 sides are doing well I notice some people think it means they have better players. But I’d sooner do  swap for their managers than their playing squads.

[bigthinrob]

Just playing Devils advocate, I would like to see a straw poll of the ratio of diverging opinions, based on who went last night compared with who didn’t. 
I’ve seen all the bad defeats over the years, a lot of them ironically in the North East and the way we were outthought & dismantled is as bad as any of them. 
Lee Johnson is an ‘Ok’ manager, but hardly Pep standard and he gave Darren Moore the complete run around. 
Darren Moores response???  Errrr nothing!!!

Other than at 4-0 to bring on Corbeanu.
Wow!!!! The man’s a tactical genius. 
In the first 15 mins they’d got through / round our defence 3 times. The writing was on the wall for all to see. ( Except Moore apparently).

A proper manager would have re hashed the formation even at that early point in the game.

 

As for the fabled ‘unbeaten run’ that seems to be an affirmation of Moores managerial abilities. The majority of these ‘draws’ were made up of throwing the extra two points away & scraping the draw. 
 

He clearly does not have the technical nous of a decent manager (again, as shown by how Lee Johnson mugged him off).

 

Forget the condescending attitude that it is the ‘usual over reaction’ following a bad defeat. 
 

Anyone who battled the 2 hour tail backs (and more) last night, saw with their own eyes what the real truth is & don’t need to be patronised & told to “calm down”. 

He’s out of his depth and it would be an act of kindness to put him out of his misery. The quicker the better.