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An interesting read regarding players wages and some outrageous facts.


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12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Imagine trying to defend the grotesque way football has gone though as some have tried to in this thread

 

Imagine that

 

I wouldn't say I've tried to defend the way football has gone.

 

I've just pointed out, along with others, that football clubs are run in the same way as any other business.  (Of course football clubs aren't like any other business, that's why this is an important discussion, but the law and the motivation of owners is similar for any business.)  I certainly think the German model is interesting, and I'm sorry that fan-owned clubs haven't done better.

 

OK maybe I did defend the way football has gone a bit; I pointed out that average attendances, in all English divisions, are now much bigger than they were before the Premier League.  Anybody who wants a change like salary caps introduced has to explain why "the grotesque way football has gone" seems to have made it more popular.

 

Average attendances of the top four divisions in England in 2019/20:    39,349   18,585   8,753    4,664   (average attendance not including covid-closed games)

Average attendances of the top four divisions in England in 1991/92:    21,662   10,525   5,442    3,404    (Last year before PL)

 

 

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1 hour ago, WalworthOwl said:

 

It is a bit rubbish, but it's the same for (almost) all clubs.  And what's the alternative for Chansiri?  Letting go the current players and signing a new team who accept less than half the wages would improve the accounts for a year, but I don't think it would be good for the league position... 

 

 

It's a fair point, once you're on the hamster wheel thinking you're on the way to the promised land of the Premier League I guess you can't get off. Until the EFL take it away from you.

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1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:


I wasn't referring to yourself mate 🙂 

I’m more than happy to defend they way football has gone…..better players, better facilities, bigger crowds attending games, infinitely more media coverage and access to players and clubs, the best league in the world…..how can you think that is not defendable.

 

and to be honest it’s no one’s business how much agents earn other than the players and clubs who pay them….it’s not like there’s a supporter levy on ticket prices to pay them directly 

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44 minutes ago, Ian said:

I’m more than happy to defend they way football has gone…..better players, better facilities, bigger crowds attending games, infinitely more media coverage and access to players and clubs, the best league in the world…..how can you think that is not defendable.

 

Agree that all those things are big positives, but there are potential negatives too.

 

The sense of community and history is a massive part of following football.  I live in London and I've watched more Premiership games than Wednesday games so far this year, but going to Portsmouth was the best experience because of that great crowd and the attitude of the players.  So far I think the huge money that's gone into football hasn't broken the link between clubs and places, but that possibility is worrying.  As is the possibility of more bankrupt clubs, and also the finances of taking kids to games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What are the income streams ?

  • Gate Money
  • capital investment by Owners/Partners
  • Sponsorship
  • Media
  • Advertising
  • Corporate purchase 
  • Merchandise

All this and more ultimately ends up in the players pockets in three ways.

  • Player wages
  • Agents fees
  • reinvestments by the club

How does Crouch propose to divert these income streams away from player wages at the top end towards a fairer system of sustainability ?

 

Your guess is probably better than mine. Feel free to suggest proposals ?  

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Please excuse the simple nature of this post. It may sound daft. But...

 

What are the legalities of the EPL and EFL, etc introducing salary caps per player/team?

Someone mentioned already, these are leagues that clubs choose to play in. No one is forcing the clubs to play in these leagues. And no one is forcing the players to play for these clubs.

So if the league said that the rules of participation in these leagues are X salary cap, clubs can choose to take part or not. Just as I'm sure every league has rules at every level of the game.

 

Is this different to restriction of trade laws, or whatever employment laws exist?

 

Someone please explain that to me, because I've never understood it?

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41 minutes ago, steelerian said:

Please excuse the simple nature of this post. It may sound daft. But...

 

What are the legalities of the EPL and EFL, etc introducing salary caps per player/team?

 

Simple question but really complicated answer.  Lawyers would certainly try to overturn it.  That is one reason why governing bodies only talk about caps per team, not a maximum wage.  The governing bodies would argue that salary caps are a way to ensure sustainability and maintain good incomes for all the players, the players would argue that their wages were being unfairly held down and should be set by the market like everyone else's.

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I think because we are football fans we look at this issue in isolation.  If you look around at other sports players or perhaps musicians you will see that the faces if the product are the ones that earn the money and that is determined by how much money is generated.

In footballing terms the Premier league in particular is a worldwide generator of money and therefore the players are paid accordingly. 
Im not saying they are not overpaid merely pointing out that is how this type of business works. 

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1 hour ago, steelerian said:

Please excuse the simple nature of this post. It may sound daft. But...

 

What are the legalities of the EPL and EFL, etc introducing salary caps per player/team?

Someone mentioned already, these are leagues that clubs choose to play in. No one is forcing the clubs to play in these leagues. And no one is forcing the players to play for these clubs.

So if the league said that the rules of participation in these leagues are X salary cap, clubs can choose to take part or not. Just as I'm sure every league has rules at every level of the game.

 

Is this different to restriction of trade laws, or whatever employment laws exist?

 

Someone please explain that to me, because I've never understood it?

The issue with player caps is that unless it is applied universally it will penalise the football association that implements it.  Can you imagine the successful clubs such as Liverpool Chelsea Man City being happy with being told what they can play there players while they are attempting to attract players who have other payment arrangements in Spain Germany etc

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11 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

IF players were no longer paid millions and millions
IF agents weren't given millions and millions or even better eradicated entirely
IF the PFA Negotiated a deal for the players where they're paid a nice sum but not eyewatering figures
IF advisors weren't given millions and millions to advise who to sign etc

And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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11 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

In for a fiver, and player wages down to reasonable levels and the product/game is exactly the same but without ordinary working men handing over their wages to millionaires and millionaire agents and advisors 

 

Can you imagine trying to get away tickets if it was in for a fiver. Everyone in the top tier would be purchasing every match regardless of their intention to go - oh wait, that's pretty much happening now. 

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