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Who is the worst manager to manage SWFC?


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2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:




+12 = Trevor Francis (3rd in Div 2 to 13th in Div 1)



Is that correct?

When did he get us promoted to the top division?

 

The Atkinson/Francis switch is the hardest to measure using this method as he's the only manager to leave after a promotion. But the last league game before Francis took charge, we were 3rd in Div 2. Which is how I measured it for all the other managers.

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1 minute ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

The Atkinson/Francis switch is the hardest to measure using this method as he's the only manager to leave after a promotion. But the last league game before Francis took charge, we were 3rd in Div 2. Which is how I measured it for all the other managers.


 

Did Francis take over before the last game of the season though?


 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:


 

Did Francis take over before the last game of the season though?

 

No, it was close season - so I guess you could technically say we were joint first (or joint last) in the First Division. Or 19th, based on alphabetical order.

 

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21 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

A good manager leaves the club in a better position than they arrived at. Here's how Wednesday's post-war managers have fared:

 

+40 = Jack Charlton (24th in Div 3 to 6th in Div 2)

+20 = Harry Catterick (22nd in Div 1 to 2nd in Div 1)

+19 = Howard Wilkinson (6th in Div 2 to 7th in Div 1)

+17 = Paul Sturrock (14th in Div 3 to 21st in Div 2)

+12 = Trevor Francis (3rd in Div 2 to 13th in Div 1)

+10 = Stuart Gray (23rd in Div 2 to 13th in Div 2)

+9 = Gary Megson (12th in Div 3 to 3rd in Div 3)

+4 = Steve Bruce (16th in Div 2 to 12th in Div 2)

+4 = Dave Jones (3rd in Div 3 to 23rd in Div 2)

+3 = Ron Atkinson II (19th in Div 1 to 16th in Div 1)

+1 = Jack Marshall (13th in Div 1 to 12th in Div 1)

+1 = Peter Shreeves (24th in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

+1 = Terry Yorath (23rd in Div 2 to 22nd in Div 2)

0 = Tony Pulis (23rd in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

-2 = Jos Luhukay (16th in Div 2 to 18th in Div 2)

-2 = Carlos Carvalhal (13th in Div 2 to 15th in Div 2)

-3 = Danny Wilson (16th in Div 1 to 19th in Div 1)

-5* = Ron Atkinson I (18th in Div 1 to 3rd in Div 2)

-5 = Vic Buckingham (2nd in Div 1 to 7th in Div 1)

-6 = Brian Laws (16th in Div 2 to 22nd in Div 2)

-7 = Alan Brown (6th in Div 1 to 13th in Div 1)

-7 = David Pleat (13th in Div 1 to 20th in Div 1)

-12 = Len Ashurst (12th in Div 3 to 24th in Div 3)

-12 = Garry Monk (11th in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

-13 = Peter Eustace (5th in Div 1 to 18th in Div 1)

-14 = Alan Irvine (22nd in Div 2 to 12th in Div 3)

-15 = Chris Turner (23rd in Div 2 to 14th in Div 3)

-18 = Steve Burtenshaw (20th in Div 2 to 16th in Div 3)

-19 = Danny Williams (15th in Div 1 to 12th in Div 2)

-25 = Paul Jewell (19th in Div 1 to 24th in Div 2)

 

*left after a promotion

interesting  that the top bloke took him nigh on 6 years to get into that position ..if he was manager now he would have been sacked after 2 years slumming about in the lower reaches of the 3rd division playing god awful football .......our greatest ever was bob brown and it took him 6 years to get us out the second division .......

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On 02/12/2021 at 12:46, Groundhopping Owl said:

There have been one or two worse than him, but I’m surprised Dave Jones’ name hasn’t cropped up in here.
 

If the mark of our worst ever manager is being most relieved to see them go then he’s top of the pile for me, I felt like a lead weight had been lifted when he finally left after that Blackpool game.

 

As soon as Terry Burton left and the promotion bounce had quickly worn off the football was absolutely rancid. We recovered once Stuart Gray came in to essentially manage the team, since by the sounds of it we were lucky if DJ turned up twice a week.


Kieran Lee and Chris Magure were great signings but they only got a run in the team after Jones left. Same story with Liam Palmer, and Connor Wickham looked hopeless until Gray took over. Meanwhile we spent money on dross like Taylor, McPhail, Olafinjana and Sidibé. He let the likes of Rob Jones and Ryan Lowe leave when they had more to give.

 

Perhaps the main thing was he just looked utterly disinterested for the whole time he was here.


Jones is an odd one - likewise, very glad to see the back of him by the time he left ..he had clearly long since lost interest, as had I by that stage.  The footy was abysmal and we were just sliding away.

 

Losing Terry Burton was a real blow which I think was underplayed at the time - he did a lot of the heavy lifting for Jones.  If Burton had stayed we’d likely have performed a lot better which in turn would have got more out of Jones.

 

 

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Since the turn of the millenium :-

I'm pretty much discounting Jewell/Shreeves/Yorath as they were operating with both hands tied behind their back.
Turner overhauled the sqaud & got some decent players in, but it took Sturrock to get a tune out of them.
I always thought Laws did a decent job with one hand tied & was unlucky.
Irvine & his coaching badges  talked a good game, but was ultimately usless & it took Milan Mandaric not long to suss him.
Megson would have took us up either automatically or via the playoffs. 
Dave Jones inherited a decent sqaud & benefited from Megsons work. The Blades self destruction helped him massively as well, but once Terry Burton went, as others have said, it all went ******** up.
Stuart Gray did a good job , but the football was pretty turgid & he squandered a large wedge of transfer cash on Stevie May. But bringing in Westwood, Hutch & Tom Lees for free buys him a lot of credit & he was still a bit unlucky to get the push.
Carlos - two good seasons, a swift decline, a shedload of injuries & other things that we are still paying for, though Chansiri has take a share of the blame here 😞
Jos - was handed a horrific injury crisis & did well to keep us out of trouble. Football was crap, but we were 6th before internatonal break after beating Bristol City and then it all went ******** up....
Bruce gave a glimpse of what might have been, but you always knew he'd be off the second something better came along.
Monk - got us to 5th after beating Bristol City (sound familiar?) then came Stoke City on Boxing Day. With hindsight we may have been better sticking with him rather than getting in......
Pulis 😞 Horrific short term appointment. He clearly was only in it for the payoff.

Of the lot above Pulis & Irvine get my vote.

Going further back, Wilson & Pleat probably did the most long term damage, but Eustace gets my vote as all time worst, beating the two above.

I'm guessing Older owls would probalby vote for Danny Williams & Steve Burtenshaw.
 

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Win ratios only tell half a story, the constraints and budgets they worked under tell the other half, the only manager in the last 60 years to have an unrestricted budget was CarCrash even he couldnt put together a title winning side despite the wealth and quality bestowed upon him.

When you stick that into the mix, ratios go out of the window

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Irvine and Jos. I recall Jos playing a flat back 8 at Millwall and immediately arriving at the conclusion that he may not be the man for the job. Irvine bought Mark Reynolds. 
 

But you also have to factor in resources available, and for this reason Danny Wilson is also in the frame. 

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7 hours ago, vulva said:

Irvine and Jos. I recall Jos playing a flat back 8 at Millwall and immediately arriving at the conclusion that he may not be the man for the job. Irvine bought Mark Reynolds. 
 

But you also have to factor in resources available, and for this reason Danny Wilson is also in the frame. 

Good team Millwall. Jos gave them the respect they deserve.

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On 03/12/2021 at 00:16, Emerson Thome said:

A good manager leaves the club in a better position than they arrived at. Here's how Wednesday's post-war managers have fared:

 

+40 = Jack Charlton (24th in Div 3 to 6th in Div 2)

+20 = Harry Catterick (22nd in Div 1 to 2nd in Div 1)

+19 = Howard Wilkinson (6th in Div 2 to 7th in Div 1)

+17 = Paul Sturrock (14th in Div 3 to 21st in Div 2)

+12 = Trevor Francis (3rd in Div 2 to 13th in Div 1)

+10 = Stuart Gray (23rd in Div 2 to 13th in Div 2)

+9 = Gary Megson (12th in Div 3 to 3rd in Div 3)

+4 = Steve Bruce (16th in Div 2 to 12th in Div 2)

+4 = Dave Jones (3rd in Div 3 to 23rd in Div 2)

+3 = Ron Atkinson II (19th in Div 1 to 16th in Div 1)

+1 = Jack Marshall (13th in Div 1 to 12th in Div 1)

+1 = Peter Shreeves (24th in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

+1 = Terry Yorath (23rd in Div 2 to 22nd in Div 2)

0 = Tony Pulis (23rd in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

-2 = Jos Luhukay (16th in Div 2 to 18th in Div 2)

-2 = Carlos Carvalhal (13th in Div 2 to 15th in Div 2)

-3 = Danny Wilson (16th in Div 1 to 19th in Div 1)

-5* = Ron Atkinson I (18th in Div 1 to 3rd in Div 2)

-5 = Vic Buckingham (2nd in Div 1 to 7th in Div 1)

-6 = Brian Laws (16th in Div 2 to 22nd in Div 2)

-7 = Alan Brown (6th in Div 1 to 13th in Div 1)

-7 = David Pleat (13th in Div 1 to 20th in Div 1)

-12 = Len Ashurst (12th in Div 3 to 24th in Div 3)

-12 = Garry Monk (11th in Div 2 to 23rd in Div 2)

-13 = Peter Eustace (5th in Div 1 to 18th in Div 1)

-14 = Alan Irvine (22nd in Div 2 to 12th in Div 3)

-15 = Chris Turner (23rd in Div 2 to 14th in Div 3)

-18 = Steve Burtenshaw (20th in Div 2 to 16th in Div 3)

-19 = Danny Williams (15th in Div 1 to 12th in Div 2)

-25 = Paul Jewell (19th in Div 1 to 24th in Div 2)

 

*left after a promotion

Didn't realise we were 24th when big Jack took over. I love him even more now. 

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