Charlie Wyke

[scram]

37 minutes ago, alanharper said:

 

I'd be more inclined to believe them, than all the anti-vax sheep who have already "diagnosed" the cause of his condition. 

 

 

I'd believe hem too if they explain how they arrived at that conclusion

[Big Malc]

1 hour ago, scram said:

 

 

How do they know it's not covid related?

 

 

I assume they mean that he doesn’t currently have covid either?

[scram]

The problem is that this isn't an isolated case

 

Of course he is entitled to full confidentiality however the club should make it clear if that is why they are not commenting further

 

If he has had regular covid tests, has never had covid, has not had the vaccine and has no antibodies for covid and the club are aware of that then they can maybe say with some level of confidence that the incident is unrelated to covid

 

Otherwise i'm afraid they are making some fairly big assumptions

 

We have known for over a year that one of the sequelae of having had covid are potential cardiac issues along with other conditions

 

I think it's paramount that this spike in player collapses is investigated thoroughly to establish what the underlying causes are

 

It is not a coincidence - whether covid, vaccines or something else - these events are not just due to chance

[alanharper]

They didn't actually say it's unrelated to Covid, they specified that it's unrelated to the Covid vaccine. Which stubs out the anti-vax tools who instantly jumped on it.

 

"With Charlie's approval we can confirm that Charlie has not received a COVID-19 vaccination and Charlie's collapse was not related to any COVID-19 vaccination."

 

 

[latemodelchild]

Can't say I've really heard of him so wasn't sure what to expect in this thread. As soon as I saw he'd collapsed I was obviously concerned. Then I knew it'd go a bit vax/antivax which is fine with me. What I wasn't prepared for though is that I'd learn a new word. Sequela/sequelae. Every day is a school day when Scram is in town, that boy is elevating us all. I even googled it to get the pronunciation and confirm the definition. Can't wait to drop that bad boy into conversation. Nowt better than a bit of sesquipedalian loquaciousness on a Friday. 

[Bannofan]

8 hours ago, scram said:

The problem is that this isn't an isolated case

 

Of course he is entitled to full confidentiality however the club should make it clear if that is why they are not commenting further

 

If he has had regular covid tests, has never had covid, has not had the vaccine and has no antibodies for covid and the club are aware of that then they can maybe say with some level of confidence that the incident is unrelated to covid

 

Otherwise i'm afraid they are making some fairly big assumptions

 

We have known for over a year that one of the sequelae of having had covid are potential cardiac issues along with other conditions

 

I think it's paramount that this spike in player collapses is investigated thoroughly to establish what the underlying causes are

 

It is not a coincidence - whether covid, vaccines or something else - these events are not just due to chance

 

Technically speaking ...."summats up"

[0742]

14 hours ago, scram said:

 

 

Depends what you mean by energy drinks - footballers by and large supplement but not so much with the caffeine/RB type drinks in my experience

 

The higher intensity forms a much higher duration of matches now (and has done for around a decade) than it did in the 90's granted

 

I just think it's too coincidental for there to suddenly be a raft of cases in regard to something that has been around for a long time - especially when a novel virus that has cardiac and other systemic problems as a known sequelae is newly on the scene

 

I'd imagine the sports medicine community is in overdrive trying to find the links - whatever they may be

 

11 hours ago, scram said:

The problem is that this isn't an isolated case

 

Of course he is entitled to full confidentiality however the club should make it clear if that is why they are not commenting further

 

If he has had regular covid tests, has never had covid, has not had the vaccine and has no antibodies for covid and the club are aware of that then they can maybe say with some level of confidence that the incident is unrelated to covid

 

Otherwise i'm afraid they are making some fairly big assumptions

 

We have known for over a year that one of the sequelae of having had covid are potential cardiac issues along with other conditions

 

I think it's paramount that this spike in player collapses is investigated thoroughly to establish what the underlying causes are

 

It is not a coincidence - whether covid, vaccines or something else - these events are not just due to chance

 

There isn't a spike though and there's no raft of cases either.  Pre-pandemic: 154 cases on average per year over 4 years https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/

 

Not much different to past year with reported numbers at around 180.

 

Most people quoting numbers, are doing so from sources which quoted an Israeli media piece, which had no reputable data linked.  It may be Covid related and i'd be interested to see how many players this season have collapsed who has covid before, but i can understand why players, who once this has happened will have their life changed, would have other priorities than telling the public what they think it could be. 

[SiJ]

Has Charlie Wyke had covid? 

 

 

[scram]

29 minutes ago, 0742 said:

 

 

There isn't a spike though and there's no raft of cases either.  Pre-pandemic: 154 cases on average per year over 4 years https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/

 

Not much different to past year with reported numbers at around 180.

 

Most people quoting numbers, are doing so from sources which quoted an Israeli media piece, which had no reputable data linked.  It may be Covid related and i'd be interested to see how many players this season have collapsed who has covid before, but i can understand why players, who once this has happened will have their life changed, would have other priorities than telling the public what they think it could be. 

 

 

You've quoted a sudden death study

 

Aguero, Fleck, Eriksen, Wyke et al aren't dead

[i used to be sc_owl]

I'm commenting from the position of no expertise, having done little research on this.... I'm wondering if the strain of the modern game, which athletes being conditioned to a higher level than ever before, mixed with the stop/start nature of football over the last couple of years might be a factor?

[0742]

31 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

You've quoted a sudden death study

 

Aguero, Fleck, Eriksen, Wyke et al aren't dead

 

Fair. Do you have any research or data to qualify your statements which i quoted? Namely that there has been a spike and raft of cases? I think in such matters, especially when we're discussing such topics, it's important that we're not sensationalising them, rather we stick to sources are credible. 

 

Aguero heart related, Eriksen also heart related, Fleck suspected seizure so not thought to be heart related, Wyke unknown, Traore fell clutching chest so would assume caridopulmonary related.

 

The study i linked is actually "sudden cardiac death (SCD), survived sudden cardiac arrest (SCA) and traumatic sudden death" so i'd say it's relevant, for the discussion, more so than the link going around claiming a 500% increase, which when scrutinised is bogus click bait. 

 

 

[alanharper]

19 minutes ago, i used to be sc_owl said:

I'm commenting from the position of no expertise, having done little research on this.... I'm wondering if the strain of the modern game, which athletes being conditioned to a higher level than ever before, mixed with the stop/start nature of football over the last couple of years might be a factor?

 

Very possibly, but footballers dying or collapsing on the pitch isn't just a very recent phenomenon, think Foe, Phil O'Donnell, Tiote, Muamba etc - all well before Covid, yet the idiot conspiracists automatically link every single incident to the vaccine these days regardless of whether there's any actual evidence. People did suddenly drop dead or suffer from previously undetected heart related conditions before Covid, y'know!  

 

There's a list here of players who died on the pitch, and it's noticeable that the majority of them have been in the last 20 years. Whether that's because earlier cases weren't widely reported I don't know, and it doesn't include players who may have collapsed and survived, but ignoring Covid it does look heart related incidents are far more common than they used to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

 

 

 

[alanharper]

15 hours ago, Kopparberg said:

The Aguero one got my attention. 
 

He’s had Covid before I believe?

 

Then comes back into the Barca team after injury and gets ill ? 

 

Aguero has reportedly had heart issues before when he was younger

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12026/11126665/sergio-aguero-hospitalised-after-fainting-during-argentinas-defeat-to-nigeria

 

[scram]

6 hours ago, 0742 said:

 

 

There isn't a spike though and there's no raft of cases either.  Pre-pandemic: 154 cases on average per year over 4 years https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/

 

Not much different to past year with reported numbers at around 180.

 

Most people quoting numbers, are doing so from sources which quoted an Israeli media piece, which had no reputable data linked.  It may be Covid related and i'd be interested to see how many players this season have collapsed who has covid before, but i can understand why players, who once this has happened will have their life changed, would have other priorities than telling the public what they think it could be. 

 

 

 The study is meaningless in this context 

 

I can't access the journal as its behind a paywall so can't say for sure - however what level were these players playing at?

 

I do know that if the players were at a certain level then a lot of the conditions would have been picked up at screening - they also seem to concentrate on a very narrow realm - SCA, SCD and TSD. The cases we are seeing fall outside those parameters

 

All the players we are talking about recently will all have undergone regular extensive testing - unlike many in the study

 

All death in football is notifiable - whatever the level so there will be multiple events that won't be heard of more widely as it could have been the Peruvian 3rd division for eg

 

We are seeing a big spike in top level footballers having issues - unless you can remember when 4-5 high profile players suffered within a period of a few months previously?

 

Indeed, how many can you think of since Fabrice Muamba in 2012?

 

My point isn't that these things are definitely related to covid - of course i don't know that - but we need to find out why there is a clutch of events and the sports medical community will be going all out to do just that.

[0742]

17 hours ago, scram said:

 

 

 The study is meaningless in this context 

 

I can't access the journal as its behind a paywall so can't say for sure - however what level were these players playing at?

 

I do know that if the players were at a certain level then a lot of the conditions would have been picked up at screening - they also seem to concentrate on a very narrow realm - SCA, SCD and TSD. The cases we are seeing fall outside those parameters

 

All the players we are talking about recently will all have undergone regular extensive testing - unlike many in the study

 

All death in football is notifiable - whatever the level so there will be multiple events that won't be heard of more widely as it could have been the Peruvian 3rd division for eg

 

We are seeing a big spike in top level footballers having issues - unless you can remember when 4-5 high profile players suffered within a period of a few months previously?

 

Indeed, how many can you think of since Fabrice Muamba in 2012?

 

My point isn't that these things are definitely related to covid - of course i don't know that - but we need to find out why there is a clutch of events and the sports medical community will be going all out to do just that.

 

I don't need to remember, I've read the published research. Try using sci-hub. To dismiss research as meaningless, without even reading the full paper is bad science.

 

Your posts come across in such a passive aggressive and derogatory tone at times on here. 

 

[scram]

Passive aggressive for contesting your posts?

 

Ok

 

And what research have you read because comparing non homogenous groups and drawing conclusions is bad science

 

[bladeshater]

I have had two jabs plus the booster I caught covid early august and since then I been in a bad way breathing problems can only walk  very short distances not sure whether it's covid or or the vaccinations but it's done me plus I'm waiting for cardiology results

[0742]

19 hours ago, scram said:

Passive aggressive for contesting your posts?

 

Ok

 

And what research have you read because comparing non homogenous groups and drawing conclusions is bad science

 

 

It was a generalisation to your posting style. 

 

"non nonhomognous"?! It's a study looking at FIFA registered footballers. What we do know about most of the names you listed, is some were cardiac related. 

 

But put that aside, rather than listing just a names, you could post some numbers up to back up your 'spike' comment, because not doing is simply non-science!

 

[0742]

7 hours ago, bladeshater said:

I have had two jabs plus the booster I caught covid early august and since then I been in a bad way breathing problems can only walk  very short distances not sure whether it's covid or or the vaccinations but it's done me plus I'm waiting for cardiology results

 

I had covid last November, before there was a vaccine available to me. 2 days in, i performed a few tests on myself with some colleagues, such as lung function, breathing frequency and oxygen consumption at different exercise intensity and heart rates. I'd ran the same tests only 5 weeks prior, so had all the data i needed compare. The results although expected, still really shocked me, with a 50% reduction in maximal oxygen consumption. Not only was my ability to pull in oxygen massively impaired, but my ability to even get it out of my lungs and to the muscles was massively reduced too. I'm no spring chicken anymore and it took me a good few months to get back to what i considered normal again and used respiratory muscle trainer to help me. I also got to see how covid impacted professional athletes performance too, the only difference is they on the whole recovered much quicker.

 

Hopefully the cardiology report comes back and the Dr's can help you put a plan together to get back to where you were pre-covid. Don't be disheartened though, it takes time but you'll get there.

[Plonk]

On 26/11/2021 at 05:58, scram said:

 

 

How do they know it's not covid related?

 

 

Because Sky news said it wasn’t. 

In all seriousness, you’ve raised some very valid points in this thread, and it’s pleasing to see someone prepared to ask the question, without the usual hysterical cries of “ sheeple” or “ anti Vaxer”.

There is definitely something going on. And it’s time there was a proper debate about it.

I haven’t got a clue, and people posting “ it’s definitely covid/ vaccine related “ are as ignorant as the ones posting “ it’s definitely not covid/ vaccine related”. And I mean ignorant as we really don’t know.