Playing Out From the Back

[Paul..]

Personally I don't like it, it lets the opposition get their shape back and have a breather. What I really don't get is that out of the back three Brennan and Palmer are far better passes than Dunkley, far more comfortable on the ball than Dunkley, so why is it always him playing it out from the back? Just because he's in the middle? Brennan/Palmer passing from the sides is better than Dunkley passing from the middle, let him focus on what he's best at!

 

[31Dec1966]

1 hour ago, Nut said:

The keeper playing goal kicks short to defenders inside their own box is the most ridiculous thing about the modern game. Even the top clubs come unstuck doing it. Would love to know how many teams build an attack and score from this tactic against how many goals are conceded doing it. It's a simple game - get the ball forward and wide and get balls into the box. Don't commit suicide in your own area. It was great to hear the fans boo this when we tried it last night. 

Agree with every word.  It is nonsensical and coaches do it because they think it makes them look good. It doesn't. Wilkinson used statistics to show  how goals are created, how many passes, in what areas etc.  Goals are NOT created from this stupid tactic which can, and does, put you under unnecessary pressure.  we hit the post and should have had a penalty from a bad defensive error after BPF kicked the ball properly into a dangerous area.  It's not neanderthal, the objective in the game is to create chances and score goals.

[camffiti]

45 minutes ago, Blatter said:

If Luongo can stay fit he’s surely the man to pick up from the defenders. It allows Bannan to get into more attacking positions as he did for that great assist for Windass last night. 
It’s a big if but Luongo is key to the way Moore want his side to play.

Yeah maybe 

[The only way is S6]

Goals conceded from mistakes playing out from the back......

 

Goals scored from tactics playing out from the back.....

 

Which do OT readers think is the highest figure of the two examples above?

 

[Ian]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

Its necessary to drag the attackers forward and create space further up the pitch. 

 

Every team does it.

 

Except Gillingham.

 

You Neanderthals need to get over it.

Could you explain to me how we managed to ever score then, never mind take the top tier by Stornaway under Howard Wilkinson?

 

it’s a current fad….in 10 years or so a young up and coming manager will get his team putting the ball in the opposition half and pressing it from there as quickly as possible and been seen as a tactical genius……tippy tappy managers will be seen as dinosaurs 

[alanharper]

I don't like it, it just seems to have become "trendy" in the last few years. I know why teams do it, but you need to have a certain ability of player to pull it off, but even then you often see the top teams coming unstuck and giving away posession and sometimes even goals as it's easily put under pressure with a good high press.

 

I just don't see the point of us rtapping it out from the keeper, passing it around the back a couple of times and then inevitably being put under pressure so we tap it back to the keeper who launches it forward anyway. I can't remember any example of teams scoring a goal from this, but I've seen many goals scored against teams who mess it up.

[Guest mrbluesky]

2 hours ago, yeadonowl said:

We don’t move the ball quick enough to pass around any press

 

I’ve  no issue with playing out from the back I just wish we’d try and inject some urgency to the play

This, I've said it in other threads, we are lethargic at the back, the players don't open their bodies up, hence passing back to the keeper, taking unnecessary extra touches on the ball, if you don't have to bloody control it (the ball), don't!

 

That said, I genuinely think this is how Moore want's it played, the centre backs (inc Peacock)  pass it between them waiting for movement in front of them, and to draw players in centrally, it does work, but it's a dangerous game to play, as you are putting a lot of pressure on the defence.

 

It's a WIP, and we haven't been caught out (yet)   

[Teddy Nickelarse]

2 hours ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

do we? the most we play is one pass to a defender, then back to BPF, then boomed up the pitch. That could be done straight away couldn't it and save the first pass out to Dunkley

Yes I think we do. Sometimes openings are created by doing it; sometimes not and then a longer clearance is required. It's not set in stone. I hope and expect that we'll continue to prorgress.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

2 hours ago, swfcmonkey said:

I'm 40 years old and the game has changed massively from the old lump it and compete for the 2nd ball. I don't want to see BPF just hoof it up field. As long as the balance is right then this style of football is the way forward. 

We adapted against Sunderland to a different style and again last night at times went a little more direct. Once we get the players back we will be a decent outfit at this level. 14  new players was always going to take a little time to gel. 

I'm not a happy clapper btw but my patience has grown over the years and i can actually see what Moore is trying to attempt with this bunch.

 

Stick with it WAWAW  

Good point but don't you think Sunderland played even deeper from the back, which contributed to us playing better. They look suicidal at times.

[onlyonedavidhirst]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

Its necessary to drag the attackers forward and create space further up the pitch. 

 

Every team does it.

 

Except Gillingham.

 

You Neanderthals need to get over it.

 

You'll always get other supporters to see your point of view by calling them neanderthals. Seems quite a few disagree with you. I actually agree that it's something we should do occasionally, but not all the time. 

[steelowl]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

Its necessary to drag the attackers forward and create space further up the pitch. 

 

Every team does it.

 

Except Gillingham.

 

You Neanderthals need to get over it.

extremely patronising that mate

I suspect most fellow dissenters know why managers are trying it with players who can't 

I can only speak for myself and say I can't cope with players who seem flustered and incapable of dealing with the seeming ' bouncing grenade' the hurried mistakes that inevitably lead to schoolboy errors and goals. 

[swfcmonkey]

31 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

Good point but don't you think Sunderland played even deeper from the back, which contributed to us playing better. They look suicidal at times.

The point i was trying to make with the Sunderland game is we didn't adopt the same policy as them on that occasion. We pressed harder than most games this season and maybe forced them into more errors. Also we switched to more direct balls and bypassed the midfield on a number of occasions, piling more pressure on their back line. But yes essentially Sunderland created a lot of their own problems on that Tuesday night. 

[prowl]

Passing out from the back is the in thing in football, fashions come and go, some are good, some aren't.  As with all fashions it's best to pick the ones that suit you and ignore the others.

 

Early in the season we were dreadful at it, every time Dunkley got the ball I was a nervous wreck. Thankfully he seemed to get better at it about 3 weeks ago and stopped looking completely petrified when someone passed to him. He still has a mistake in him doing it but  it's a big improvement.

 

Passing out from the back stretches the opposition, if they press gaps appear further up the field but if they are really good at pressing  they can force errors. It works best if the wingbacks stay wide and the midfield move about to create passing opportunities so the defender has options all the time. I watched Bannan in particular last night and half the time he stood still while covered when we were playing out, he was actually not the only offender. They should all be moving all the time.

 

Best not to stick to one thing all the time because we become predictable and the opposition can take advantage of that. Mix it up in each game and see what works against different teams.

[TodwickOwl]

3 hours ago, Holmowl said:

We are getting the balance much better recently.

 

Gone is the endless, pointless, danger-filled tippy tippy tappy torture we were put though previously.

 

Its used still but far less. And we do it more confidently as a result.

Exactly this 

 

We never went long for the first third of the season - we constantly went out from the back and the players were put under unnecessary pressure.

 

Now we’re going long a lot more and having success higher up the pitch winning the seconds and recycling the ball well

 

If we had a confident ball player CB then that would improve us massively

[S6ToBerlin]

The reassuring difference between now and the start of the season is that the players have clearly been instructed to not be afraid of going long if under too much pressure or in a tight spot. They try, and if it doesn't work they launch it long. 

 

Absolutely fine by me, miles better than keeping trying to pass their way out of trouble until we lose it

[crookesowl]

Seeing players improve in this respect is a sign of good coaching. 

[Howards back]

Pep does it so it’s got to be good.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

32 minutes ago, swfcmonkey said:

The point i was trying to make with the Sunderland game is we didn't adopt the same policy as them on that occasion. We pressed harder than most games this season and maybe forced them into more errors. Also we switched to more direct balls and bypassed the midfield on a number of occasions, piling more pressure on their back line. But yes essentially Sunderland created a lot of their own problems on that Tuesday night. 

Yes, I agree. i guess the point I was making is the one time we play a team who plays deeper than us we beat them 3 nil. My conclusion being unless you have the players capable of doing it either don't do it or do it in small proportions. It's been obvious to me all season this has been a problem and maybe the Sunderland game - when Sunderland did a Wednesday - it became apparent to the guy making the decisions. i hope so.

[swfcmonkey]

50 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

Yes, I agree. i guess the point I was making is the one time we play a team who plays deeper than us we beat them 3 nil. My conclusion being unless you have the players capable of doing it either don't do it or do it in small proportions. It's been obvious to me all season this has been a problem and maybe the Sunderland game - when Sunderland did a Wednesday - it became apparent to the guy making the decisions. i hope so.

I think it's a learning curve and maybe doing it in small doses in the beginning will benefit so we can do it more in games. 

[toooldforthis]

We need to trust our midfielders if we’re to play out from the back. When we played it to Baz with a player on him he had three choices: play it back, to the side or turn…he did all three of these well last night…trust the midfielders more!!

 

Kicking it long to our forwards gives possession away every time…

 

We are getting much better at playing it out but midfield must be a part of the system as an active 5

Edited November 24, 2021 by toooldforthis