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15 hours ago, McRightSide said:


1 loss in 13 isn’t consistent?

 

So why only now that he's lost the fear of being fired? (your words). There must have been a reason he had that thought?

 

Moore's tactics have been abysmal so far not only this season but last season too.

 

Last night was a refreshing change that we actually went after a team & imposed ourselves on them. That's all I've been asking of him to shake off the negativity and let other teams worry about us for a change.

 

Best performance of his tenure & hopefully we now crack on and push for the top 2.

 

Great to hear the crowd roaring us on & that's what he'll get if he stays aggressive and not passive.

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so what's changed from past games.. from the Gillingham game to last night where we created some great chances playing good stuff at tempo. Maybe Luongo n Gregory back which frees up space for Bannan & Corbeanu who's looking fantastic or Windass coming back both of which happened late in game but the attitude was good before they came on. 

I've criticised playing out of back if not good enough to do it but wi the players that have come back maybe we can play through teams as we did last night..  After that performance can they really go back to previous home games as set a standard now.. Can't fault Moore's interview either.  

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3 hours ago, Antisolar said:

Congratulations to Darren Moore and the squad, given th e massive influx of players, i think last night it proves that we are finally turning the corner.  for the last 5 years we have been on a downward and painful spiral.  Chris Turner said on his appointment that stopping the slide at his club was like trying to stop a runaway train with a matchstick.  Darren has had the same job, luckily for us and  more tellingly he has done it in half the time Turner did and is probably 10 places higher in the table.

 

Lets not get too high or get too low, this will be a long, bumpy and winding road.  The best thing we can do is support the team including the manager.

 

His experience of this level was always going to give him a better chance of succeeding than Turner.

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After the humbling performance in the cup at Plymouth the knives were out for DM but I started a topic on here 'In defense of Darren Moore'. After an underwhelming start to the season I thought we'd turned a corner but were being thwarted by injuries. I actually wrote

 

Imagine playing like we did against Gillingham but with Gregory and Windass up front. Imagine not having to have Paterson in the back three. Imagine having Luongo back in midfield. 

 

25 people responded with a 'ha-ha' emoji. I hope they enjoyed being wrong last night.

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6 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on you personally, but making general observations here...

 

A lot of it is nothing more than self-fulfilling and inconsistent rambling. Supposed basic principles that will be endlessly parroted by the self-appointed experts like keeping to a settled team, not moving players around different positions and having a focus in attack have not prevented Pep Guardiola from being enormously successful. If you want to criticise a manager using such accepted wisdoms it is one of the easiest things in the world and requires no insight whatsoever, especially when those indulging in it see no reason to hold themselves accountable.

 

As for the reference to being 'totally wrong' about Moore we're just 5 points from the top of the division and have lost only 3 league games all season. This is under the leadership of someone who recently 'had to go', is 'clueless' and whose position was 'untenable'. That seems to me to be an extremely unrealistic standard he is being held to if he is failing so badly. Unfortunately though, people find it easier to maintain their position and keep blustering rather than having the integrity to acknowledge their over-reactions and lack of perspective. Sometimes, this requires appointing blame for things that are entirely speculative or even simply invented from nothing.

 

6 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on you personally, but making general observations here...

 

A lot of it is nothing more than self-fulfilling and inconsistent rambling. Supposed basic principles that will be endlessly parroted by the self-appointed experts like keeping to a settled team, not moving players around different positions and having a focus in attack have not prevented Pep Guardiola from being enormously successful. If you want to criticise a manager using such accepted wisdoms it is one of the easiest things in the world and requires no insight whatsoever, especially when those indulging in it see no reason to hold themselves accountable.

 

As for the reference to being 'totally wrong' about Moore we're just 5 points from the top of the division and have lost only 3 league games all season. This is under the leadership of someone who recently 'had to go', is 'clueless' and whose position was 'untenable'. That seems to me to be an extremely unrealistic standard he is being held to if he is failing so badly. Unfortunately though, people find it easier to maintain their position and keep blustering rather than having the integrity to acknowledge their over-reactions and lack of perspective. Sometimes, this requires appointing blame for things that are entirely speculative or even simply invented from nothing.

Your picking your stats very carefully arnt you? Are you one of the people who feel L1 is hard to 'get out of'? its not how many times we have lost this season is it? its how many times we didnt win that matter,and at times the manner in which that happened,that has leveled critique at DM & his team.(not just fans either,pundits,Pro commentators ex players,some very respected in the game)

Having a different view to you,is just that      

Have they all been 'blustering too'?  lacking integrity? over reacting and having a lack of perspective?? 

You think playing it out was the right way to set up? playing a lone striker?  I think most of what i have seen re a critique of DM has been bang on the money,and fair comment.(ditto the after match comments on phone ins,from home and away fans who have actually watched the match)

The personal stuff was obviously not

Boils down to opinion.Mine is there were three teams relegated last Year,as of last night Rotherham were top,WW second.

Many fans felt that with 7 first team players remaining from a Championship squad,and others recruited from Championship or  PL teams(on loan or otherwise) that with our squad DM should have done better,and we could/should be in an automatic promotion spot,rather than a play off spot.

 

Thats a legitimate view which i happen to share,others  in a similar position have managed it,and its perfectly achievable.

 

 

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There’s still time for Moore to be a success here.  Only 3 defeats so far is good. Ideally we need 3 wins and a draw from the next 4 games taking us up to the half way point of the season. Then we’d be in a strong position as 42 points is not far off the 46 points considered auto promotion form.  

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You back the manager.

 

if we lose, simply give yourself a dusting down and get ready to go again .  Albeit it is so long since we lost that the duster is itself getting dusty , so we will get even dustier dusting ourselves down with our dusty duster .

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4 hours ago, parajack said:

 

Your picking your stats very carefully arnt you? Are you one of the people who feel L1 is hard to 'get out of'? its not how many times we have lost this season is it? its how many times we didnt win that matter,and at times the manner in which that happened,that has leveled critique at DM & his team.(not just fans either,pundits,Pro commentators ex players,some very respected in the game)

Having a different view to you,is just that      

Have they all been 'blustering too'?  lacking integrity? over reacting and having a lack of perspective?? 

You think playing it out was the right way to set up? playing a lone striker?  I think most of what i have seen re a critique of DM has been bang on the money,and fair comment.(ditto the after match comments on phone ins,from home and away fans who have actually watched the match)

The personal stuff was obviously not

Boils down to opinion.Mine is there were three teams relegated last Year,as of last night Rotherham were top,WW second.

Many fans felt that with 7 first team players remaining from a Championship squad,and others recruited from Championship or  PL teams(on loan or otherwise) that with our squad DM should have done better,and we could/should be in an automatic promotion spot,rather than a play off spot.

 

Thats a legitimate view which i happen to share,others  in a similar position have managed it,and its perfectly achievable.

 

 

 

You make some reasonable points, but as I posted before, quibbles about selections, formations, tactics and even luck are the easiest thing in the world to indulge in if that's what you want, especially in retrospect. Fill your boots. But there are no absolutes. Pep Guardiola is consistently having great success by transgressing some of the basic tenets of these football sages, which only goes to demonstrate how tenuous they can be. A few weeks ago it was Mikel Arteta who was 'proving' how out of his depth he was and now his club have surged up to fifth place. Did he fortuitously stumble upon some genius recently? And what knowledge did Ole Gunnar Solskjaer have last season that he forgot in this one? Maybe the game is deeper and more complex than the superficial sloganeering of the perpetually dissatisfied?

 

Someone in the stands can easily claim that bringing in this player, making that substitution or pushing another man up front could have earned us a few more points, but the truth is, it might just as easily have resulted in the opposite. Neither you, John Pearson, Gary Lineker, me or whoever else can be certain about that either way. If every manager does everything precisely the same way, one will still be top of the league and another on the bottom. Yet still this myth persists, that like chess, making one move leads necessarily to the next and that this can be followed to an increasingly inevitable conclusion. And even more lacking in credibility, those who have spent half their lives earning a very good living at the highest levels of this profession are often treated as imbeciles oblivious to the simplest truths by people with a mere fraction of their experience. 

 

We're told that football managers are judged on results, but it seems even that is just as conditional as everything else about the process. The league table is calculated on the basis of points won and goals scored. It doesn't care who has most possession, shots on target, rotates their squad least or entertains the pundits most. That you infer there is something 'carefully' selective about observing where we are placed only goes to highlight the special pleading I'm referring to. We have 81 points still at stake and are only 5 behind the leaders yet some seem convinced the season is on the verge of being wasted already. Ask most neutrals for their opinion on how we are doing and I doubt they'd be using terms like 'clueless', 'untenable', 'shocking', 'crap' or 'dreadful' like I've seen lately. 

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26 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

You make some reasonable points, but as I posted before, quibbles about selections, formations, tactics and even luck are the easiest thing in the world to indulge in if that's what you want, especially in retrospect. Fill your boots. But there are no absolutes. Pep Guardiola is consistently having great success by transgressing some of the basic tenets of these football sages, which only goes to demonstrate how tenuous they can be. A few weeks ago it was Mikel Arteta who was 'proving' how out of his depth he was and now his club have surged up to fifth place. Did he fortuitously stumble upon some genius recently? And what knowledge did Ole Gunnar Solskjaer have last season that he forgot in this one? Maybe the game is deeper and more complex than the superficial sloganeering of the perpetually dissatisfied?

 

Someone in the stands can easily claim that bringing in this player, making that substitution or pushing another man up front could have earned us a few more points, but the truth is, it might just as easily have resulted in the opposite. Neither you, John Pearson, Gary Lineker, me or whoever else can be certain about that either way. If every manager does everything precisely the same way, one will still be top of the league and another on the bottom. Yet still this myth persists, that like chess, making one move leads necessarily to the next and that this can be followed to an increasingly inevitable conclusion. And even more lacking in credibility, those who have spent half their lives earning a very good living at the highest levels of this profession are often treated as imbeciles oblivious to the simplest truths by people with a mere fraction of their experience. 

 

We're told that football managers are judged on results, but it seems even that is just as conditional as everything else about the process. The league table is calculated on the basis of points won and goals scored. It doesn't care who has most possession, shots on target, rotates their squad least or entertains the pundits most. That you infer there is something 'carefully' selective about observing where we are placed only goes to highlight the special pleading I'm referring to. We have 81 points still at stake and are only 5 behind the leaders yet some seem convinced the season is on the verge of being wasted already. Ask most neutrals for their opinion on how we are doing and I doubt they'd be using terms like 'clueless', 'untenable', 'shocking', 'crap' or 'dreadful' like I've seen lately. 

Why keep using examples of managers from the PL? to underline your points? what quality of players do said 'managers' have at there disposal? players who can turn a game around with a piece of individual skill?

You think L1 is comparable?....comparing apples with pears,and you dont have to be a manager,or even a player to be knowledgeable or know and understand tactics,PW as an example went from fitness coach to manager,and he isnt doing too bad is he?

Barnsley went from bumping along the bottom of the Championship,and only escaping relegation cutesy of Wigan,to PL contenders in one season,by changing managers and adopting a direct style

I see you ref again those in the 'stands' critiquing DM but ignore he points i made about respected former players,pundits,and commentators saying the same...(More or less)

Solskjaer’s Mourhino, many of the big names have fallen on the sword of ambition,including Bruce at Newcastle for not meeting the fans expectations... as to City how much have they spent/overspent on players? you have a short memory my friend with budgets like that.

Man Utd to pay telephone numbers out to their former manager and his back room staff in compo....

Ironic indeed that its the fan base who recieve pelters from you.......

all they have done is shell out their hard earned money to watch SWFC & by and large given an honest opinion of what they have seen...

Whats so wrong with that? if you disagree with the critique,debate it & if capable dismantle it....

Might try losing the air of superiority your adopting with your posts....whilst your at it  

 

 

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1 minute ago, parajack said:

Why keep using examples of managers from the PL? to underline your points? what quality of players do said 'managers' have at there disposal? players who can turn a game around with a piece of individual skill?

You think L1 is comparable?

 

If you're going to depend on such a transparent device to discredit me as this then I'm wasting my time. Yeah, of course I'm directly comparing Barry Bannan to Kevin de Bruyne and Lee Gregory to Harry Kane. The principles are precisely the same - only the magnitude is different. 

 

4 minutes ago, parajack said:

I see you ref again those in the 'stands' critiquing DM but ignore he points i made about respected former players,pundits,and commentators saying the same...(More or less)

 

I can find 'respected' commentators who differ wildly on just about any subject you care to introduce. In isolation they mean little. And there's plenty of them in prominent positions whose opinions I have little time for.

 

6 minutes ago, parajack said:

Ironic indeed that its the fan base who recieve pelters from you.......

all they have done is shell out their hard earned money to watch SWFC & by and large given an honest opinion of what they have seen...

 

 

That kind of emotive flag waving isn't worth a damn. The distance they've travelled and the amount they've spent do not bring with them perspective or wisdom. And again, opinions will range vastly across the spectrum. So who among them are the ones we should be paying attention to and why? It is beyond any doubt that in just a couple of decades there has been a seismic shift in the general attitudes of supporters towards such matters. Why is that do you think? Are managers getting precipitously worse during that time or does it more a consequence of changes in society more widely?

 

13 minutes ago, parajack said:

all they have done is shell out their hard earned money to watch SWFC & by and large given an honest opinion of what they have seen...

Whats so wrong with that? if you disagree with the critique,debate it & if capable dismantle it....

 

 

Honest you say? They are often routinely lacking in consistency and don't stand up to detailed examination. I'd bet if I chose some individual posters and studied their histories that flagrant contradictions wouldn't take long to find. Often it's little deeper than an exercise in second guessing after the fact. Anybody can do that and in fact some people make a very nice living doing just that.

 

17 minutes ago, parajack said:

Might try losing the air of superiority your adopting with your posts....whilst your at it  

 

 

Offence can only be taken, not given. 

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13 hours ago, S1Owl said:

so what's changed from past games.. from the Gillingham game to last night where we created some great chances playing good stuff at tempo. Maybe Luongo n Gregory back which frees up space for Bannan & Corbeanu who's looking fantastic or Windass coming back both of which happened late in game but the attitude was good before they came on. 

I've criticised playing out of back if not good enough to do it but wi the players that have come back maybe we can play through teams as we did last night..  After that performance can they really go back to previous home games as set a standard now.. Can't fault Moore's interview either.  

Re playing it out from back good to see we mixed it up yesterday and went long too.

 

Flexibility on that helps as opposites don't know what to expect. 

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14 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

 

25 people responded with a 'ha-ha' emoji. I hope they enjoyed being wrong last night.

 

I've noticed this recently.

 

I think there's a couple of posters who rather sadly have nothing better to do than stalk anyone who defends Darren Moore and plaster their posts with 'ha-ha' emoji's.

 

I bet I'll have a couple here pretty soon.

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14 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

If you're going to depend on such a transparent device to discredit me as this then I'm wasting my time. Yeah, of course I'm directly comparing Barry Bannan to Kevin de Bruyne and Lee Gregory to Harry Kane. The principles are precisely the same - only the magnitude is different. 

 

 

I can find 'respected' commentators who differ wildly on just about any subject you care to introduce. In isolation they mean little. And there's plenty of them in prominent positions whose opinions I have little time for.

 

 

That kind of emotive flag waving isn't worth a damn. The distance they've travelled and the amount they've spent do not bring with them perspective or wisdom. And again, opinions will range vastly across the spectrum. So who among them are the ones we should be paying attention to and why? It is beyond any doubt that in just a couple of decades there has been a seismic shift in the general attitudes of supporters towards such matters. Why is that do you think? Are managers getting precipitously worse during that time or does it more a consequence of changes in society more widely?

 

 

Honest you say? They are often routinely lacking in consistency and don't stand up to detailed examination. I'd bet if I chose some individual posters and studied their histories that flagrant contradictions wouldn't take long to find. Often it's little deeper than an exercise in second guessing after the fact. Anybody can do that and in fact some people make a very nice living doing just that.

 

 

Offence can only be taken, not given. 

Just who exactly do you think you are???  the ghost of Jimmy ****ing Greaves??? all it boils down to is your opinion,thats it......Others may differ,and they may even be right,or they might not,but one thing is for sure there are no 'right or wrong' opinions(though tbh the only one you seem to be interested in is your own 

Your post is full of moralising and over analysis. not about taking offence at others views is it? as its clear to me the only view you have any regard for,is your own....

There is the odd poster on here,who blows with the wind,but most in my time on here stick to their guns and dont change their views to suit......

Many on here have been consistent with the critique of DM tactics,and  have praised him when they felt he got it right.Thats their right,earned by supporting the Club many for many 

Years man,and boy...

I have seen very little critique of DM of a personal basis,and when i do i jog on and ignore it...on the other hand there has been abundent and fair(in the main) critique of DM for his team selections,subs,tactics,and game management.

ANY supporter or paying fan,has the right to do that......including you,though its usual to offer a critique of the manager/team/owner  & not in my view the fan base.

You clearly dont like fans having a voice,and expressing it do you?....

if you dont like it,critique what the fans are saying,offer your own debate,rather than trotting out tired cliches and drawing ridiculous conclusions about the motives of people posting it.

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17 minutes ago, parajack said:

Just who exactly do you think you are???  the ghost of Jimmy ****ing Greaves??? all it boils down to is your opinion,thats it......Others may differ,and they may even be right,or they might not,but one thing is for sure there are no 'right or wrong' opinions(though tbh the only one you seem to be interested in is your own 

Your post is full of moralising and over analysis. not about taking offence at others views is it? as its clear to me the only view you have any regard for,is your own....

There is the odd poster on here,who blows with the wind,but most in my time on here stick to their guns and dont change their views to suit......

Many on here have been consistent with the critique of DM tactics,and  have praised him when they felt he got it right.Thats their right,earned by supporting the Club many for many 

Years man,and boy...

I have seen very little critique of DM of a personal basis,and when i do i jog on and ignore it...on the other hand there has been abundent and fair(in the main) critique of DM for his team selections,subs,tactics,and game management.

ANY supporter or paying fan,has the right to do that......including you,though its usual to offer a critique of the manager/team/owner  & not in my view the fan base.

You clearly dont like fans having a voice,and expressing it do you?....

if you dont like it,critique what the fans are saying,offer your own debate,rather than trotting out tired cliches and drawing ridiculous conclusions about the motives of people posting it.

 

Triggered. :dry:

 

 

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This all just goes to show why fans don't make good chairman or managers. 

I was thinking DM should go a week ago. Now I realise that would have been a massive mistake. Changing the management now would probably ruin the season. 

DM has a plan. He is sticking to it. We have now got some consistency. Yes we drawn to many games. But we are difficult to beat. 

I can see us being near if not top of the league by Xmas. That is not a crazy notion. The big games coming up are going to be so important and will show us the chances of getting back to the championship. 

Wednesday never make it easy for us. We are far away from being the finished article. But we all now can see that we definitely getting there. 

The key to the success of our season is now down to keeping our important players fit and getting the injured players back into the team ASAP with out rushing them. 

How we have coped with Hutchison out has surprised me. I do think it has made DM significantly change his tactics. But I think this has worked out in our favour. When he is back I will be interested to see how he is going to be played. 

Iorfa is a fantastic player. I amazed we not missed him more than we have. Both those players are needed to be fit asap. With Luongo and windass our season really rests on the fitness of 4 players. 

 

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16 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

You make some reasonable points, but as I posted before, quibbles about selections, formations, tactics and even luck are the easiest thing in the world to indulge in if that's what you want, especially in retrospect. Fill your boots. But there are no absolutes. Pep Guardiola is consistently having great success by transgressing some of the basic tenets of these football sages, which only goes to demonstrate how tenuous they can be. A few weeks ago it was Mikel Arteta who was 'proving' how out of his depth he was and now his club have surged up to fifth place. Did he fortuitously stumble upon some genius recently? And what knowledge did Ole Gunnar Solskjaer have last season that he forgot in this one? Maybe the game is deeper and more complex than the superficial sloganeering of the perpetually dissatisfied?

 

Someone in the stands can easily claim that bringing in this player, making that substitution or pushing another man up front could have earned us a few more points, but the truth is, it might just as easily have resulted in the opposite. Neither you, John Pearson, Gary Lineker, me or whoever else can be certain about that either way. If every manager does everything precisely the same way, one will still be top of the league and another on the bottom. Yet still this myth persists, that like chess, making one move leads necessarily to the next and that this can be followed to an increasingly inevitable conclusion. And even more lacking in credibility, those who have spent half their lives earning a very good living at the highest levels of this profession are often treated as imbeciles oblivious to the simplest truths by people with a mere fraction of their experience. 

 

We're told that football managers are judged on results, but it seems even that is just as conditional as everything else about the process. The league table is calculated on the basis of points won and goals scored. It doesn't care who has most possession, shots on target, rotates their squad least or entertains the pundits most. That you infer there is something 'carefully' selective about observing where we are placed only goes to highlight the special pleading I'm referring to. We have 81 points still at stake and are only 5 behind the leaders yet some seem convinced the season is on the verge of being wasted already. Ask most neutrals for their opinion on how we are doing and I doubt they'd be using terms like 'clueless', 'untenable', 'shocking', 'crap' or 'dreadful' like I've seen lately. 

You had me at the “superficial sloganeering of the perpetually dissatisfied “🤯

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