In defence of Darren Moore

[OwlsPilgrim]

43 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

A few of the replies have answered some of your points. I’ll add - 

Why wasn’t Brennan or even Agbontahoma starting or on the bench. If we are down to 1 fit CH what’s his priority, the league or the Cup. I’d have started Brennan, I’ve not seen him let us down. On the whole CH issue, if he’s banished Hutch and/or Iorfa then why? He knew their characters at the start of the season.

Why didn’t he start with Luongo to get more game time into his legs? 
On the 4-4-2 point it’s clear Moore refuses to play it, out of principle I would suspect. I half understand that if he’s trying to develop a culture, but last night he could have played 4-4-2 with a player in their natural position instead of 4/5 playing in a role they are less used to. 
Wildsmith - Palmer, Brennan, Dunkley, Brown - Theo, Bannan, Luongo, Shodipo - Sow, Kamberi for example. 
We might be 2 points off 6th but 5 of the 7 teams above us have games in hand. Our form is predominantly made up of draws and the players and manager told us 2nd this season isn’t good enough. They wanted and expected top spot. 
Part of why we will struggle now is that Moore didn’t fix the imbalance in the squad that he identified. He talked about needing leaders, adding pace and that we had gaps that he would fill and yet we’ve gone into this season without a left back that he is happy to play there and we face a further season with no target man. Signings like Byers, Berahino, Sow look like a waste and they appear to be no different to what we already had,when those wages could have perhaps been used on something different.

I won’t completely discredit his signings as he did ok overall, but he’s brought 14 I think to the club and few are what fans would consider guaranteed starters and even more, how many would we want at the club if we went back up?

I agree he doesn’t deserve the bile and maybe we should give him longer, but my optimism levels are less than 5% right now
 

I also think DM is unwilling to use or even try the 442 formation, again like many have mentioned previously, this may be born out of stubbornness or thinking that his plan will eventually come good.

 

I think the gamble we took on signing Berahino hasn’t proved to be a positive one and unless he suddenly finds his shooting boots and puts more of a shift in during the game (should he be given more starts) he should be sent on his way come the winter transfer window.

 

I’m still undecided about Sow, is he going to be more productive as a winger or a striker?

 

And as for Byers, he’s been out for a considerable amount of time injured and has just come back to the squad. I’m hoping that he will prove to be a good signing and I would rather have him start ahead of Wing.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 hour ago, edwinowl said:

So why play Patterson as a centre half and not play a flat 4 ? It’s tinkering for the sake of it. Dunkley and palmer can play as a 2. 
I don’t get it and he’ thinks he’s being clever. 
I am still hoping he gets us out of this but some of his decisions are a bit left field. 

 

Who plays at full-back if Palmer and Dunkley are the centre-backs?

[Supersiggi2]

9 minutes ago, zorbatheowl said:

a RB CB CB LB preferably in that order

Trouble is our only fit right back is playing centre half and we don't have a left back. (Brown can't defend). 

[Ian]

14 minutes ago, Supersiggi2 said:

 

 Who would you play in a back 4 with who we've got available?

Last night, from right to left

 

Palmer, Paterson, Dunkley, Brown

 

next excuse?

[Road Runner]

He’s just not a good manager - that’s it. 
 

3 league wins since the end of August and a 27% Win ratio.

 

He his worse than Irvine and the performances match it.  
 

 

 

[Django]

Personal abuse is completely out of order 

 

Fact remains that he just isn’t up to the job. He wasn’t at West Brom, he pulled up no trees at Doncaster and he’s completely stinking the place out at Wednesday 

[zorbatheowl]

15 minutes ago, Supersiggi2 said:

Trouble is our only fit right back is playing centre half and we don't have a left back. (Brown can't defend). 

You are right as it stands but his insistence earlier in the season when we did have options did not make any sense to me.

[0742]

3 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

I've read through much of the reaction to the Plymouth game and tbh can't bear to read any more.  Even if DM is doing a poor job he doesn't deserve some of the bile being poured out here.

 

So many people have made up their minds about DM that it just needed a result and performance like this to give them their excuse to let rip.

 

But haven't we just gone 10 games unbeaten - only lost once in 13 games? Didn't we have 9 shots on target in our last game? It seemed to me that we had turned a corner AND found a system that suited us (admittedly after loads of tinkering which made us seem rudderless). Then last night happened and almost everyone is agreed that Moore is useless.

 

Doesn't anyone accept that there might be mitigating circumstances?

 

'He plays square pegs in round holes - like Paterson at centre-half'

Well, when Iorfa Hutchinson Gibson and Brennan are all out injured, what better option was there?

'Why didn't we sign more defenders in the summer?'

A club usually plans to have cover for every position. At centre-half we had Hutchinson and Iorfa with Dunkley and Gibson as cover and Brennan and Palmer able to fill in. That should be ample. But not when 4 of them are injured and two full-backs (Hunt and Johnson) are injured too.

'We're hopeless up front' Well, our first choice strikers, Windass and Gregory are both injured, our next option Paterson was needed in defence so we were left with Kamberi and Berahino. One of these tries hard but really neither of them are good enough and we didn't really have other options (Though I am now so cheesed off with Berahino that I'd have tried either Sow up front or even Adedoyin - unless he's injured too).

'Why didn't we play a back 4?'

Eh? When we've only got 2 fit defenders, why is it better to play 4 at the back?

'Every club has injuries'

Of course but our current situation is extraordinary. Our 6 highest-rated players on whoscored.com have played only 61 league games between them (out of 102). Hutch, Gregory and Iorfa will be missing the next game too. If you add in Windass who hasn't played at all, we've had, on average, 3-4 of our best 7 players unavailable for each match. I'll be amazed if any other club is suffering to that extent. Even more amazed if they've just gone 10 games unbeaten.

'We'll never get promoted with this clown'

Despite all these injuries (we've been missing Luongo and Byers for ages too) we're only 2 points off the play-offs. I imagine we're now going to struggle for a while until we get some players back so we could well fall away from the chasing pack. If we don't fall away despite these injuries I'll be delighted/amazed. If we do then we'll revert to what I expected of this season - consolidation. Jeez I was fearing much worse.

 

It's taken Darren Moore several months to work out what to do with this squad but, now he's found a system, I'm really looking forward to seeing how it could work when he has more like a complete squad to work with. Imagine playing like we did against Gillingham but with Gregory and Windass up front. Imagine not having to have Paterson in the back three. Imagine having Luongo back in midfield. 

 

If those players come back and we're still rubbish then let's call for DM's head. But lets not pour bile on him in these extraordinary circumstances.

 

You could defend darren moore for many things, but this is some seriously poor cherry picking of the narrative to suit your overall point. 

 

Darren Moore is not a good enough manager, at best he would be a decent coach or assistant manager. The issue most have is the fact he's so appalling at getting the basics right. The football for most part is really poor, with players clearly not knowing their roles or being asked to do things/play positions they're not comfortable with.

 

I'd bet he's either lost the dressing room already or is very close to. once he's gone, i wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of injured players miraculously be available again.

[Supersiggi2]

32 minutes ago, Ian said:

Last night, from right to left

 

Palmer, Paterson, Dunkley, Brown

 

next excuse?

That's no less square pegs and round holes than he put out

[edwinowl]

49 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Who plays at full-back if Palmer and Dunkley are the centre-backs?

You can even play Patterson at full back. 
He’s done it before. 
Not as a centre half though. Nooooo 

[morganowl]

there are so many reasons why darren needs sacking , but just his win ratio just over 20% over 34 games must rank as the worst manager in our history over that amount of games or more .  he made the moronic decision to play hutchinson in midfield when every one of us know that will mean getting injured . he didnt sign a left back/left sided defender , iorfa was out most of last season he is done , dunkley have a very serious injury so amazed he aint broke down , gibson injury prone , and we all know hutchinson situation , so it was clear injuries to defence was going to happen . 

we looked well short up front as season started with just gregory as a goalscorer and kamberi is a 1 in 5 striker , paterson has never been a striker . no idea what sow and berinhino do very strange signings 

lets have an early xmas present darren moore out and get a proper manager alex neil in next week 

[shezzas left peg]

To be fair, I let last seaon slide as he had very little chance to effect things due to coming in late and then catching covid. 

 

This season I'm fed up of tinkering and  rotation, no one's knows our style our formation our strategy or tactics.

Any one know our best 11 poor old dqzza dosent

 

. With so many new players I said I'd give him while Christmas to get everything settled, but we're now the middle of November and the standard simple things were still not doing well. No team cohesion, a lack of aptitude and workrate. 

 

To be real I'd take monk back right now. Yes I said it!! 

At least we had some sort of tactics and match strategy. 

I'm actually waiting for the Dc pull the trigger at chrimbo as I'm begging to expect it becouse unless DM decides on his best 11, formation and style soon he's going to be joining the likes of Irvine in the clubs and fans memory.. 

[Southie_Owl]

3 hours ago, The coach said:

We wer garbage before we got any injuries..im simply not buyin it..its allmost like hes getting his excuses in for the Accrington debacle this satday

This ^ the squad Moore had available against Wimbledon, Lincoln, Cambridge and Cheltenham was good enough to win at least one of those games.  He should have gone after that run of poor results in my opinion.  Now he’s in a situation where more players are injured and can use that as an excuse but it has been very poor or average performances all season.  

[Supervisor2]

4 hours ago, Owls Loyal said:

Any manager with anything about him could have kept us up last season.

 

we tried three and two caretakers…………in the same season. A bit much laying the blame at his door for the clubs relegation with everything else that went on.

 

At the moment we are sitting eighth in a poor league and playing poor football. Turning bad draws into comfortable wins will see us push for the play offs. Something that few on here thought we were capable of at the start of the season

Hopefully injuries will clear up for several players and put the squad back on a stronger footing. I haven’t seen any reports of players being out for the season. Also with a couple of inspirational signings/loans in January, the team should have a new freshness for the remainder of the season 

 

As for Moore, he came in when the place was a sh*t storm and nobody wanted to touch us with a barge pole. According to Wikipedia his win rate for us is the same, if not better, than Luhukay, Pulis and Monk and going further back, (to the other dark times of) Wilson, Jewell and Yorath also Big Ron’s 2nd stint.

I can’t see Chansiri sacking him while we are in this league position. (And also, with a chance of bringing his entourage over for a day out at Wembley still on the cards with the pizza cup) no matter how much pressure OT puts on him with its opinions.

 

I’d like to think he could be at least given the season to see what happens. How many times have we changed manager’s mid season and made no improvement. The only time in my memory was Jones for Megson but then he just carried on with Megson’s team.

…....On 29th February 2012, with the club third in League One, he was sacked. At the time of his sacking he had the third best win percentage of any manager in Sheffield Wednesday's history. His last result before being sacked was a 1–0 victory over………errr Sheffield United. (Makes you think what would happen if he came back )

I’m surprised no one has posted the customary list of replacement managers yet, seeing as the majority of posters want him out now.If he was to go, Chris Hughton is the one I’d like to see at S6 from the usual ‘roll call’ of candidates, despite his disastrous spell at Forest.

 

But the stumbling block for any new manager of course, that was willing to come to our club, would be the enigma the is Dejphon Chansiri…..!!!

 

WAWAW

 

 

[shezzas left peg]

5 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

I've read through much of the reaction to the Plymouth game and tbh can't bear to read any more.  Even if DM is doing a poor job he doesn't deserve some of the bile being poured out here.

 

So many people have made up their minds about DM that it just needed a result and performance like this to give them their excuse to let rip.

 

But haven't we just gone 10 games unbeaten - only lost once in 13 games? Didn't we have 9 shots on target in our last game? It seemed to me that we had turned a corner AND found a system that suited us (admittedly after loads of tinkering which made us seem rudderless). Then last night happened and almost everyone is agreed that Moore is useless.

 

Doesn't anyone accept that there might be mitigating circumstances?

 

'He plays square pegs in round holes - like Paterson at centre-half'

Well, when Iorfa Hutchinson Gibson and Brennan are all out injured, what better option was there?

'Why didn't we sign more defenders in the summer?'

A club usually plans to have cover for every position. At centre-half we had Hutchinson and Iorfa with Dunkley and Gibson as cover and Brennan and Palmer able to fill in. That should be ample. But not when 4 of them are injured and two full-backs (Hunt and Johnson) are injured too.

'We're hopeless up front' Well, our first choice strikers, Windass and Gregory are both injured, our next option Paterson was needed in defence so we were left with Kamberi and Berahino. One of these tries hard but really neither of them are good enough and we didn't really have other options (Though I am now so cheesed off with Berahino that I'd have tried either Sow up front or even Adedoyin - unless he's injured too).

'Why didn't we play a back 4?'

Eh? When we've only got 2 fit defenders, why is it better to play 4 at the back?

'Every club has injuries'

Of course but our current situation is extraordinary. Our 6 highest-rated players on whoscored.com have played only 61 league games between them (out of 102). Hutch, Gregory and Iorfa will be missing the next game too. If you add in Windass who hasn't played at all, we've had, on average, 3-4 of our best 7 players unavailable for each match. I'll be amazed if any other club is suffering to that extent. Even more amazed if they've just gone 10 games unbeaten.

'We'll never get promoted with this clown'

Despite all these injuries (we've been missing Luongo and Byers for ages too) we're only 2 points off the play-offs. I imagine we're now going to struggle for a while until we get some players back so we could well fall away from the chasing pack. If we don't fall away despite these injuries I'll be delighted/amazed. If we do then we'll revert to what I expected of this season - consolidation. Jeez I was fearing much worse.

 

It's taken Darren Moore several months to work out what to do with this squad but, now he's found a system, I'm really looking forward to seeing how it could work when he has more like a complete squad to work with. Imagine playing like we did against Gillingham but with Gregory and Windass up front. Imagine not having to have Paterson in the back three. Imagine having Luongo back in midfield. 

 

If those players come back and we're still rubbish then let's call for DM's head. But lets not pour bile on him in these extraordinary circumstances.

Hutch probably wouldn't have got injured if Moore hadn't decided to stick his old biscuit knees in midfield instead of cb where' he's stayed pretty fit and played well in the position hes supposed to play. The worse thing is, we had plenty of cm who could have played there.... Then again oh wait DM was playing one of them. Out wide whilst the  10 (slight exaggeration) wingers we signed had a  nice comfy night of feet up. 

Yes sometimes due to injuries you need to play players out of position, 

We sign 6 wingers /wide forwards. 

Then proceeded to play a left back (brown) on one wing and a cm (Adrenian) on the other. 

I've been patient, but sometimes DM I'd as baffling as Jos!! 

[devonshire owl]

4 hours ago, Lunny1968 said:

Very easy to sack the manager.  What viable alternatives are there?........................Tony Pulis is available, in other words none.  The sack the manager model has been the method of choice recently and it has not worked.  Lets all calm down and give Moore the season.  We have forgotten what state the club was in when he took over.  A complete rebuild was needed in the summer and with no money available he has built a half decent squad.  Lets allow him the time and patience to finish the job off and stop behaving like the entitled idiots on Arsenal fan tv who want to sack the manager every week.

And have we got any money to pay him and the backroom staff off.and then get another manager and backroom staff again,and on it goes.stick with Darren and let's see what happens.

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Supersiggi2 said:

That's no less square pegs and round holes than he put out

How do you work that out?

 

3 of the 4 are in the most experienced and preferred positions and Patterson is hardly a stranger to playing cb 

[cain]

He’s totally clueless…….no more no less 

[Glenn59]

It simply amazes that he can't do the basics before trying to be the new Pep.

 

1: Play players in the right position

2: Find what you think is your best starting 11 and STICK with it. Make changes due to injuries/bans

3: Stop panicking over how the mighty Wimbledon and Shrewsbury play. Find our style and let others worry about how WE play.

4: Stop trying fancy dan tippy tappy playing out from the back when it doesn't work. We are in League 1, we don't have the players to play that, and it's cost us goals, points etc.

5: Find a true leader to make team captain, not everyone's favourite player but Dunkley seems the only one with leadership in him.

6: Play attacking fast flowing football, go for it from the first minute. we won't win every game but if we look like we are going for it fans will back it.

 

 

not that difficult surely

[onlyonedavidhirst]

3 hours ago, S72 Owl said:

You’d play Brennan even though he was cup tied?

Obviously not, didn’t realise he was.