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Yorkshire banned from holding test matchs


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Just now, vulva said:

Interesting angle. You’ve invited the racist to your wedding to be nice to them. 


Imagine if he invited everyone but that one person.

 

Why do people want to dismiss or trivialise allegations which have been proven to be true just because he invited him to his wedding? 

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6 minutes ago, R-Sole14 said:


Imagine if he invited everyone but that one person.

 

Why do people want to dismiss or trivialise allegations which have been proven to be true just because he invited him to his wedding? 

No one is trivializing anything. Just casting some doubt on the context of the comments made in 2009. I’ve spent years in cricket changing rooms and they can be brutal places at times. Without wishing to go down the ‘it’s banter’ route, I’m sure we’ve all said things to mates over the years that easily cross the line of what is classed as decency. 

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7 hours ago, Hirstys_12th_Pint said:

You may continue to go to work but would you return after leaving 2 years previously? 

 

 

You might if you were given reassurances that previous attitudes had changed, and you accepted this, only to find out it wasn't true.

 

MV has offered up some "bantz" in the past, typical dressing room stuff but, like many individuals who have high levels of confidence in their abilities and themselves, has engaged his mouth before his brain. "you lot" if said, and why would it not have been in a dressing room situation, is clearly a dig that oversteps the mark of decency.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Screen Door Slams said:

Just to confuse things even more , Ajmal Shazhad who was apparently present when Michael Vaughan made his alleged comment says he has no recollection of the event and says he only has good things to say about his time/treatment at Yorkshire.

Shazhad was a good player. Played for England and had an excellent career in the game. 

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This is all very messy.

 

I think there's a problem in professional cricket culture that players can basically live like 17-year-olds on a lads holiday all their career. Unlike footballers, who live such insulated lives these days. Footballers have intense media attention and need to maintain peak fitness. Cricketers need to be fit(ish) but county cricketers are wealthy without being rich and well-known without being famous, so can live a life of boozy nights out and laddish pranks. They no doubt work hard on their skills and fitness on some days - but more like 90s footballers who would have massive sessions down the pub and sweat it all out at training the next day.

 

This isn't a problem in and of itself, but this mix of being away from home, being a close-knit group of blokes and booze can also create a toxic culture. We've seen with the rape trial at Worcestershire and now this mess at Yorkshire how this can go from 'banter' to light years beyond the realms of acceptable behaviour in just a few months. And when you have weak or out of touch people at the top and juvenile behaviour being indulged it is a recipe for disaster. And the Yorkshire cricket hierarchy have never been known for being progressive.

 

It is a while since I've been, the last time was a dozen or so years ago, and I was pleasantly surprised when I went to watch Yorkshire play at Scarborough that you would find the entire Yorkshire team out boozing with fans at the end of the day's play. It's great in a way that the players are still in touch with the fans and accessible. But I did also wonder if it was 100% wise - e.g. at that game Tim Bresnan was 90 not out overnight, and had a full day of bowling to do once Yorkshire declared the next day. And it wasn't just him, almost the whole team were down the pub, muslim players and all (I can't remember if they were drinking alcohol).

 

In this situation I can imagine a lot of players develop massive egos and there is often a lot of that dreaded word 'banter'. And probably a lot of bullying, depression and unhealthy relationships with alcohol under the surface too.

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So, is Yorkshire CCC institutionally racist? If really problematic racist views exist, they are much more likely to be ingrained in all the committee men and senior management types than the players. A modern county cricketer will play abroad and share dressing rooms with loads of overseas players. I doubt many hold deep-seated racist beliefs. Even from reading about the Rafiq affair, you can see how, essentially, Gary Ballance and Azeem Rafiq can forge a close friendship within the same team. There is no dressing room divided along racist lines. They probably care much more about how good someone is at cricket and if they fit into their idea of how someone should behave in a dressing room, with all the 'bantz' involved than their skin colour. So I can see how particularly muslim players would be under pressure to assimilate to dressing room culture, rather than it being a clear-cut racism. But race is still an underlying factor, especially when things go wrong.

 

It will be interesting to read more of the report and the revelations as they come out. But you basically have a team with its fair share of unlikeable, immature and arrogant players in an environment with weak supervision.

 

And Rafiq is an interesting character in this, as he was England U-19 captain, chosen above the likes of Joe Root and Ben Stokes at the time as a leader. His trajectory was seemingly on the path to international cricket and being a great player. And by accounts he acted like he already was a great player to those around him and those he judged as being inferior to him. As he gets into his mid-20s he has to slowly deal with the realisation he's not going to be the great cricketer it once appeared he would be. Then comes the depression, personal tragedy in his life and professional relationships going sour.

 

It seems a bit like the journalists and people working with Rafiq are saying to him "tell us more about the race aspect, how many times did Ballance call you a ****?" and the institutional racism angle, but Rafiq would still rather present these complaints as part of the story about his cricketing greatness and how it was denied and taken away from him. So that's probably why the panel of lawyers found that the majority of Rafiq's claims were either untrue or unsubstantiated.

 

For example, there is an example given by Rafiq that emerged about Vaughan recommending Yorkshire sign Kane Williamson. Rafiq takes offence at this, but it is hard to see why, because Williamson is clearly a) a far better all-round cricketer, and b) a decent off-spin bowler with a similar career record to Rafiq. So by presenting this anecdote as an example of racial discrimination, and denying Williamson is an off spin bowler, Rafiq isn't doing his case any favours. But essentially he can't accept that he didn't make it.

 

So, he's blown the lid off some very unsavoury behaviour - some genuine examples of racism and a management culture that needs to be dismantled. But, because partly because of who he is and how he acted himself during this time, and partly because he's mixed the genuine grievances with exaggerations and the perspective of someone who thinks he was a much better cricketer than he actually was, some of what he is saying is either biased or simply not true. So the Yorkshire Committee have (wrongly) decided to ignore nearly all of it.

 

The only way to sort out what really happened and where the truth lies would be to cross-examine everyone involved in the team. I'm not sure if Yorkshire CCC is worthy of a public enquiry and there seem to be far bigger injustices in this world and far clearer-cut examples of racism in the UK. So, it sticks a bit in the craw to have MPs opining on the wrongs of Yorkshire cricket when they work for leaders who by their words and his actions are clearly more of racist than Gary Ballance.

 

But, ultimately, there has been a failure of leadership at Yorkshire and it is probably right that a few heads should roll. But I worry that this will turn into a bit of a media frenzy that swings from no action being taken to an over-reaction that tries to find racism in places where there wasn't any, or it is impossible to prove.

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I think if this inquiry is broadened then there wont be any county grounds left to play test matches on. Do we really think that in the heat of the battle there haven't been racist slurs made across all races? Sledging is an art form in Cricket and I always thought that England were not at the top of the sledging league.

Lets hope that YCCC can reform and recover from this but they are not the only ones with these issues.

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On 06/11/2021 at 14:24, Ellis Rimmer said:

if he's from Zimbabwe would he know that it's an offensive term? when I was in NZ I was surprised to find that word is the actual nickname of the Pakistan cricket team

 

Ballance moved to England in 2006. You seriously think he would not have been aware of the fact that term is offensive, or that someone might have mentioned that fact to him when he was using it?  

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On 05/11/2021 at 18:52, marconi said:

I’d expect a law suit coming your way if you were proved wrong.


If that's the case I'd be greatful for my posts to be deleted. (Please do mods)

 

if you read his Twitter, as been posted, I'd have an decent case

 

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44 minutes ago, eightbelow said:

I think if this inquiry is broadened then there wont be any county grounds left to play test matches on. Do we really think that in the heat of the battle there haven't been racist slurs made across all races? Sledging is an art form in Cricket and I always thought that England were not at the top of the sledging league.

Lets hope that YCCC can reform and recover from this but they are not the only ones with these issues.


are you suggesting racist slurs are ok?

sledging is part of the game, being racist isn't.

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Michael Vaughan has always been edgy on social media, and tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if he did say what he is accused of saying.

While that may not make him a rabid racist, it at least begs some sort of question about his character.

A lot of the stuff he tweets and says are fully intended, maybe not to be overtly insulting, but he has a poor habit of underhandedly starting an argument, he knows what he's doing, so much so it becomes bloody tedious.

Did he say it?, we don't know, but his comment  "I categorically deny I have never said anything racist to anyone" is a bit subjective, he may not think "We have too many of your lot" isn't racist, i would suggest it probably is

If I was a pakistani cricketer playing for Yorkshire, I would categorically say...   it certainly IS racist

Is it subjective?

Vaughan would have been better off apologising and holding his hand up saying it was meant in jest, but he now realises it was clumsy.

If he didn't say it...Litigation surely?, cos his career has hit the buffers

 

 

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8 hours ago, asteener1867 said:

Michael Vaughan has always been edgy on social media, and tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if he did say what he is accused of saying.

While that may not make him a rabid racist, it at least begs some sort of question about his character.

A lot of the stuff he tweets and says are fully intended, maybe not to be overtly insulting, but he has a poor habit of underhandedly starting an argument, he knows what he's doing, so much so it becomes bloody tedious.

Did he say it?, we don't know, but his comment  "I categorically deny I have never said anything racist to anyone" is a bit subjective, he may not think "We have too many of your lot" isn't racist, i would suggest it probably is

If I was a pakistani cricketer playing for Yorkshire, I would categorically say...   it certainly IS racist

Is it subjective?

Vaughan would have been better off apologising and holding his hand up saying it was meant in jest, but he now realises it was clumsy.

If he didn't say it...Litigation surely?, cos his career has hit the buffers

 

 

 

This all gets a bit Forestieri though doesn't it? How can either side prove someone said something 12 years ago?

 

There were 4 people there and 2 people say they heard it and the other two say it never happened.

 

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