Westwood. What did he say?

[0742]

14 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I actually don’t agree with you. I think Carlos overstepped quite significantly. For an ex player to comment about it, for an ex physio to comment about it, that’s unusual, because they are in the game and know how prevalent it is. I happen to know a World Champion personally and someone who competed at these last Olympics when medical advise was not to. The big difference in that situation was it was the competitors choice and when competing they knew the things they still couldn’t do or risk, to ensure they didn’t get long term complications. The suggestion in Wednesdays case was that the players didn’t want to take the risk and yet were almost forced to and also that the risks were too great and pretty much guaranteed to create longer term dangerous injuries. If you read the chatter at the time it was predicted that making K Lee play one game effectively guaranteed he’d never be the same player again. That’s going too far if the rumours, which were very strong, are true. They were also from someone who grew up a Wednesdayite, whose family gave so much to the club, why would they go public?
I wouldn’t say Carlos is the worst, I’m sure some other coaches/managers take risks, but he was all about the short term, at almost any cost. His management record to that point was always like that, part of the reason he rarely stayed anywhere more than a year. 

 

You can disagree about it happening and to the extent, but to be blunt, you don't know. You can go off what a disgruntled ex physio said but he was clearly complicit, like they all are. If a player really doesn't want to play, due to injury, then they won't. But if there's a chance they can then some coaches will convince them to try in which case some will and some won't. I'm just speaking from my experience and some of what i've seen happen is not what the general public thinks goes on. Carlos is vilified for this far more than others, but that's because it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Had we got promoted and had the money to replace the injured players, nobody would care. That's just how sport works at the top level. 

 

Look in another thread, wednesday fans calling bannan a scottish **** it's nothing new that lifelong fans speak out of turn, not in this current climate of begging for likes and recognition on social media.

[Guest hirstysfags]

12 hours ago, sage owl said:

Did he say what happened at Christmas ?.

We don't talk about that. One for my autobiography.

[vulva]

Good old Westwood. Another one like FF who has a gullible fanbase fawning at their every move and comment. 

[sternlad]

1 hour ago, prowl said:

I accept DC has made a lot of mistakes but there is no evidence as far as I can see that he has been involved in getting players to play while injured.

 

I've no problem with having a go at him for things he has done, and there are plenty, but I think you are just looking for a stick to beat him with.

If he and Carlos are ever in the same room together it would be a question worth asking. Also it’s just an opinion I’m expressing, basically saying I wouldn’t trust him as far as I can throw him (DC that is). I wonder how well they would stand up in court if a player like Kieran Lee felt he’d been overplayed and subsequently spoke to a lawyer…it’s all supposition and conjecture but there might be some disgruntled medical staff who would support players in this situation. After all some, if not all of them were shown the door during Carlos’ tenure I’m led to believe.

[WhiteOwl91]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

Good old Westwood. Another one like FF who has a gullible fanbase fawning at their every move and comment. 

I think as with anything you have to look objectively at comments made by players/ex players, as of course theres 2 sides to every story. 

 

But I do think you can generally get a good summary of certain things from his comments. 

 

Ultimately a player thats been there throughout the whole of the 2015-2021 period will have witnessed an awful lot and spoken to players in that group and understood their points of view too. 

 

Things like how the squad felt when Bruce left etc is valuable insight, the same way we could give summaries of how similar situations might have impacted our workplace. 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

3 hours ago, 0742 said:

 

You can disagree about it happening and to the extent, but to be blunt, you don't know. You can go off what a disgruntled ex physio said but he was clearly complicit, like they all are. If a player really doesn't want to play, due to injury, then they won't. But if there's a chance they can then some coaches will convince them to try in which case some will and some won't. I'm just speaking from my experience and some of what i've seen happen is not what the general public thinks goes on. Carlos is vilified for this far more than others, but that's because it was a gamble that didn't pay off. Had we got promoted and had the money to replace the injured players, nobody would care. That's just how sport works at the top level. 

 

Look in another thread, wednesday fans calling bannan a scottish **** it's nothing new that lifelong fans speak out of turn, not in this current climate of begging for likes and recognition on social media.

I’m not 100% clear on all your points here, but you are right that I don’t know. Surely that’s what we saw discussing though, you don’t know the truth, I don’t know the truth, I’ve based my judgement on what Westwood and Paul Smith have said publicly, you’ve based your judgement on the fact that it happens so therefore Carlos did nothing wrong, plus Smith and Westwood may have said something for attention. Unless I’m missing something, Smith is incredibly private with social media and Westwood has had the chance to say his peace before but hasn’t, his responses yesterday were off the cuff.

 

I agree Carlos was vilified more because it didn’t work, but personally I don’t agree with what he did (if he did do it) and I don’t agree that if it has have worked that nobody would have blinked. Regardless, that doesn’t make it right. 
 

Let’s agree to disagree, as is often the case, we may never fully know the truth anyway

[McRightSide]

Just listened back to it

 

Literally nothing to see/hear on the Hutchinson comment

 

Just didn’t feel it was his place to share the injury info

 

He even said ‘Sam is good’

[McRightSide]

Also listened back to the comments on injections 

 

Nowhere near as dramatic as made to sound in this thread

 

He said Paterson, Bannan, Hutchinson and some others I can’t recall were examples of players who if they were anything about 70% would make themselves available to play if needed 

 

He went on to say that in the promotion season that players had loads of injections and Bannan played with a badly bruised foot or even a broken metatarsal 

 

I didn’t hear anything in there that isn’t commonplace at clubs up and down the country (and probably still ours)

 

But yeah. Booooo Carlos

[goodytheowl]

I always presumed he’d sound Irish but he sounds like John Sheridan, I didn’t actually realise he was from Manchester

[morganowl]

regards carlos , i knew all about the injections etc the man is a bloody fraud what sent this club into a downward spiral . k lee was ruined due to carlos and insisting he was fetched back too quick and thats coming from his dad. 

i still cant believe there are some what either want him back or have good memories of him.  he is the reason why we are in league 1 instead of the premier league. 

[WhiteOwl91]

22 hours ago, goodytheowl said:

I always presumed he’d sound Irish but he sounds like John Sheridan, I didn’t actually realise he was from Manchester

He's the most naturally sounding Manc in the world, yet has some random Irish that comes out from time to time....maybe they do accent conversion therapy when you get called up for Ireland or something

[asteener1867]

On 03/11/2021 at 15:46, McRightSide said:

Just listened back to it

 

Literally nothing to see/hear on the Hutchinson comment

 

Just didn’t feel it was his place to share the injury info

 

He even said ‘Sam is good’

you got a link to the "Listen again" thingy mate....can't find one

[McRightSide]

2 hours ago, asteener1867 said:

you got a link to the "Listen again" thingy mate....can't find one

If you have ifollow then go to the full match replay

 

The Hutchinson comment was towards the end of half time, the 70% comment was during the second half 

[heppers]

On 02/11/2021 at 23:18, sage owl said:

Did he say what happened at Christmas ?.

Uncle Bryn and Jason had round 2

[sage owl]

On 03/11/2021 at 18:09, morganowl said:

regards carlos , i knew all about the injections etc the man is a bloody fraud what sent this club into a downward spiral . k lee was ruined due to carlos and insisting he was fetched back too quick and thats coming from his dad. 

i still cant believe there are some what either want him back or have good memories of him.  he is the reason why we are in league 1 instead of the premier league. 

Yep you’re right you only have to look at the way we were battering the door of the premier league down from 2000 until Carlos came.

[morganowl]

7 hours ago, sage owl said:

Yep you’re right you only have to look at the way we were battering the door of the premier league down from 2000 until Carlos came.

all previous managers like s grey survived on free transfers ,players no1 wanted or getting loans with club paying 20% of wages .id love to see old carlos work with that. 

[sage owl]

10 minutes ago, morganowl said:

all previous managers like s grey survived on free transfers ,players no1 wanted or getting loans with club paying 20% of wages .id love to see old carlos work with that. 

I suggest you have a look at the table for group f of the Europa league.

[Big Jack]

On 03/11/2021 at 16:46, McRightSide said:

Just listened back to it

 

Literally nothing to see/hear on the Hutchinson comment

 

Just didn’t feel it was his place to share the injury info

 

He even said ‘Sam is good’

Me too , didn't say anything remotely shocking. Funny because they were talking and reminiscing while the game was on going with very little commentary on the game.

[McRightSide]

16 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Me too , didn't say anything remotely shocking. Funny because they were talking and reminiscing while the game was on going with very little commentary on the game.

Yeah definitely 

 

I actually enjoyed it, but I can imagine it didn’t work so well if you weren’t also watching the game yourself 

[McRightSide]

On 03/11/2021 at 00:00, adamwestsleftear said:

he said that the team under Carlos used to 'regulary take injections and play at 70% and through the pain with bad bruising.

he mentioned bannan specifically in this regard ..

at least we know why we had so many injuries 

Just going to recorrect this for balance 

 

He said that Pato, Bannan and Hutch are the types of players that will always make themselves available to play if they are anything above 70% fit 

 

He then said in the promotion season (which amused me that he called it that by mistake) there players were playing with injections and Baz was playing with a badly bruised foot maybe even a broken metatarsal 

 

i think his point was there are some players who will play through pain, there are some who won’t…and his gave some great context as to those who will and did. It came of the back of him saying Hutch will play anywhere for the team and will play injured if needed