Some fans have been slating Gregory and saying he should be dropped

[Tewkesbury]

Hello.

 

This thread is mainly about me.

 

I don't hate Gregory, far from it. I would have killed for him last season.

 

I think that Gregory didn't fit in with the team tactics and formation and his inclusion hurt the team.

 

Gregory scores. I know this. I don't dispute it. He's good at it. But we have plenty who can score. We need a line leader much more.

 

My issues are entirely with the other parts of his game. The rest of the team doesn't score with him. His inclusion dictates our tactics and style of play. He also keeps other players out of the team who do fit.

 

We're in a league where pace and power up front wins games. Where pressing wins games. Where direct play wins games. Where movement wins games.

Gregory offers none of these things. With him up front, we had a relegation level attack. He scores, but we don't as a TEAM.

But it was never him. It was always lack of service, effort, support from the rest of the team. Any criticism is met with "but he's scored goals"

 

He doesn't have pace, he gets put clean through nearly every game and never gets a shot off.

He's won one header since Wimbledon. (Not forgetting the fluffed header on the throw then the bottled block for Cheltenham's first goal that everyone seems to blame Johnson for)

He pulls up before getting to defenders when pressing, allowing them plenty of time to pick out passes.

He doesn't move outside a certain lane, or move defenders.

Defenders push right up as he isn't a threat behind them, closing space in midfield.

He fades hard. Plays great for the first 15-20 minutes of the half then disappears.

 

The lack of movement and threat up front directly impacts the rest of the game.

Playing from the back. It's a mess because there's no threat behind, teams close up on us as there's no long ball or direct threat to keep them honest.

Playing direct. The CF needs to move defenders to create space for other players to run into. Or make space himself to get the ball.

Playing long. The CF needs to at least attempt to head the ball.

 

 

Sunderland was arguably his best game of the season.

He pressed.

He challenged.

He made runs.

He had a good game by anyone's standards.

 

But why doesn't he do this week in week out? Why just this game?

 

Because he had a legitimate challenger in Kamberi.

 

But he was still half as effective as Kamberi. Kamberi just did everything better.

Movement, pace, pressing, it was all there. Everything we've been missing.

More than double the touches, challenges, blocks, shots, headers.

Kamberi made his own chances.

 

 

I like Gregory, he's a good goalscorer. But he isn't good for us.

We need a runner, a space maker, a presser, a header, a 90 minute player a lot more than we need a goalscorer. We have plenty who can score given the opportunity.

We'd be better without him.

 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Hello.

 

This thread is mainly about me. 

 

 

 

 

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

 

I like Gregory, he's a good goalscorer. But he isn't good for us. 

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

19 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

You forgot the Sid James face.

[Neon Nick]

With all due respect, Tewkesbury, and I mean that, always like your posts,  against Sunderland, it was 3 - 0 Wednesday.

 

Corbeanu

Kamberi

Gregory

 

In that order...smacks of TEAM scoring to me.  I don't know how that happened.  There's certainly a place for Gregory, but no need to rely on him for goals, or build the First 11 around him.  

[Tewkesbury]

24 minutes ago, Neon Nick said:

With all due respect, Tewkesbury, and I mean that, always like your posts,  against Sunderland, it was 3 - 0 Wednesday.

 

Corbeanu

Kamberi

Gregory

 

In that order...smacks of TEAM scoring to me.  I don't know how that happened.  There's certainly a place for Gregory, but no need to rely on him for goals, or build the First 11 around him.  

This is my point.

 

Kamberi and to an extent Gregory provided the movement and pressing that the team needed to score. We had more headers in the box than in the last 5, won the ball in their half more than any game, they didn't have time to play out, which teams usually get, and were panicking and banging it long. They were pushed back into their area a lot of the time.

We moved their defence to make opportunities for runs. (See Kamberi take the CB to the side for Wing to run in behind him for the first goal)

 

The difference v Sunderland is that we were defending from the front and moving from the front, making space, opening up midfield, having a direct option, something that we haven't had for a while. 

 

Here's a stat.

Kamberi 3 league starts, 7 team goals. All open play.

2 cup starts, 5 team goals. All open play.

 

Without Kamberi starting, we haven't scored more than one open play goal in a game all season. The 3 games we have 2 had 2 OGs and a pen.

 

I actually meant my post the other day. If Gregory can provide the running and pressing, which I know he can, he did it v fleetwood at the start of the season, then I'll be happy for him to play every game.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

 

 

Here's a stat.

Kamberi 3 league starts, 7 team goals. All open play.

2 cup starts, 5 team goals. All open play.

 

 

 

Kamberi had been subbed off for the 2 goals we scored in his start against Doncaster and was also off when we scored the second v Rotherham.

 

What a strange stat to try and use for your point. 

 

[Tewkesbury]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Kamberi had been subbed off for the 2 goals we scored in his start against Doncaster and was also off when we scored the second v Rotherham.

 

What a strange stat to try and use for your point. 

 

But we had the momentum by then. Everyone says about v Sunderland how everyone was playing and pressing, Kamberi was doing it all game both times, he set the tone.

Also, Gregory was doing it too back then, against a tired defence.

 

Gregory starts a game better than anyone, 0-100 in the first few seconds after the kickoff, he just fades quickly, after 15-20 minutes he disappears.

Kamberi runs defenders ragged. That combo of Kamberi for an hour then Gregory coming in looked to be a winner, honestly don't know why it changed.

 

Gregory could be an amazing impact sub, probably get 10-15 goals coming on after 60-70 minutes, just don't think he has the stamina or pace to lead a line for 90 minutes.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

But we had the momentum by then. Everyone says about v Sunderland how everyone was playing and pressing, Kamberi was doing it all game both times, he set the tone.

Also, Gregory was doing it too back then, against a tired defence.

 

Gregory starts a game better than anyone, 0-100 in the first few seconds after the kickoff, he just fades quickly, after 15-20 minutes he disappears.

Kamberi runs defenders ragged. That combo of Kamberi for an hour then Gregory coming in looked to be a winner, honestly don't know why it changed.

 

Gregory could be an amazing impact sub, probably get 10-15 goals coming on after 60-70 minutes, just don't think he has the stamina or pace to lead a line for 90 minutes.

 

We had the momentum in the Donny game  - when it was 0-0 when Kamberi was subbed off?

 

You can't really believe that can you?

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

We had the momentum in the Donny game  - when it was 0-0 when Kamberi was subbed off?

 

You can't really believe that can you?

When he came off, he'd been running round like a loon for 60 minutes, setting up the game, like I said, tired defences, style of play is set by then.

 

We were also seemingly playing for the wear them out then get fresh legs on in attack tactic, we subbed all 3 attackers between 60-70 minutes.

 

DM was following the Southgate manual of game management to the letter back then, defend like mad, get them tired, then hit them hard for 20 minutes and grab a goal or 2.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

When he came off, he'd been running round like a loon for 60 minutes, setting up the game, like I said, tired defences, style of play is set by then.

 

We were also seemingly playing for the wear them out then get fresh legs on in attack tactic, we subbed all 3 attackers between 60-70 minutes.

 

DM was following the Southgate manual of game management to the letter back then, defend like mad, get them tired, then hit them hard for 20 minutes and grab a goal or 2.

 

Unbelievable.

Did you actually go to the game.

Defend like mad, then hit them hard by swapping genuine wingers for a central midfielder and a left-back in order to "hit them hard"?

It was 0-0 when Kameberi went off and we won the game without him - not due to all the running about he did before that. You make some fair points at times but trying to back this one up is just a bit daft. 

[Tewkesbury]

5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Unbelievable.

Did you actually go to the game.

Defend like mad, then hit them hard by swapping genuine wingers for a central midfielder and a left-back in order to "hit them hard"?

It was 0-0 when Kameberi went off and we won the game without him - not due to all the running about he did before that. You make some fair points at times but trying to back this one up is just a bit daft. 

To be fair, they were literally the only players we had fit at the time.

We were playing anyone we could as half the team were not here or not fit by then.

I can't remember exactly, but didn't we push Adeniran up and Byers into midfield. We've also played Brown at winger most of the season.

Byers then set up Bannan after 2 minutes on th pitch and Adeniran scored straight after so worked pretty well.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

To be fair, they were literally the only players we had fit at the time.

We were playing anyone we could as half the team were not here or not fit by then.

I can't remember exactly, but didn't we push Adeniran up and Byers into midfield. We've also played Brown at winger most of the season.

Byers then set up Bannan after 2 minutes on th pitch and Adeniran scored straight after so worked pretty well.

 

Yes, one of the few times Moore's subs have worked - by taking off Kamberi. 

 

Your stat about us scoring 7 in the 3 games he has started is ridiculous when he had already been subbed off for 3 of the goals. 

[Tewkesbury]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Yes, one of the few times Moore's subs have worked - by taking off Kamberi. 

 

Your stat about us scoring 7 in the 3 games he has started is ridiculous when he had already been subbed off for 3 of the goals. 

OK. If you read it, that's what I said, play him then sub him for Gregory.

 

However, it's a little side thing I put at the bottom of a post.

 

Why is it that the bulk of the posts never get addressed?

 

My reasons for dropping Gregory are clearly stated.

If you disagree, then refute those reasons, don't deflect by jumping on some random stat.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tewkesbury said:

OK. If you read it, that's what I said, play him then sub him for Gregory.

 

However, it's a little side thing I put at the bottom of a post.

 

Why is it that the bulk of the posts never get addressed?

 

My reasons for dropping Gregory are clearly stated.

If you disagree, then refute those reasons, don't deflect by jumping on some random stat.

 

A random stat?

 

It is a stat you brought to everyone's attention, your full post is below, it's hardly a little thing that you put on the bottom of a post.

 

 

13 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

This is my point.

 

Kamberi and to an extent Gregory provided the movement and pressing that the team needed to score. We had more headers in the box than in the last 5, won the ball in their half more than any game, they didn't have time to play out, which teams usually get, and were panicking and banging it long. They were pushed back into their area a lot of the time.

We moved their defence to make opportunities for runs. (See Kamberi take the CB to the side for Wing to run in behind him for the first goal)

 

The difference v Sunderland is that we were defending from the front and moving from the front, making space, opening up midfield, having a direct option, something that we haven't had for a while. 

 

Here's a stat.

Kamberi 3 league starts, 7 team goals. All open play.

2 cup starts, 5 team goals. All open play.

 

Without Kamberi starting, we haven't scored more than one open play goal in a game all season. The 3 games we have 2 had 2 OGs and a pen.

 

I actually meant my post the other day. If Gregory can provide the running and pressing, which I know he can, he did it v fleetwood at the start of the season, then I'll be happy for him to play every game.

 

[Tewkesbury]

5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

A random stat?

 

It is a stat you brought to everyone's attention, your full post is below, it's hardly a little thing that you put on the bottom of a post.

 

 

 

But is any of it not true?

 

It was an attempt to draw attention to the fact that Gregory starting hasn't been working from a team perspective, and maybe there's a different way.

 

Anyway, can't be bothered nitpicking, the thread is about dropping Gregory. 

Any chance of talking about that?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

But is any of it not true?

 

It was an attempt to draw attention to the fact that Gregory starting hasn't been working from a team perspective, and maybe there's a different way.

 

Anyway, can't be bothered nitpicking, the thread is about dropping Gregory. 

Any chance of talking about that?

 

Well yeah, if you want - most people across the 4 pages appear to disagree with you.

 

We'll see how it goes today won't we. 

 

I don't really mind either way, the tactics, formation and players picked in other positions are a bigger concern to me. 

[Quickly Kevin]

Any " fan" that consistently goes to such length and effort to consistently slag off and dismiss one of our players is a weird sort of fan.

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

2 minutes ago, Quickly Kevin said:

Any " fan" that consistently goes to such length and effort to consistently slag off and dismiss one of our players is a weird sort of fan.

 

 

Where do I slag anyone off?

 

My entire argument throughout has been that he's a good player, good at what he does, but what he does is not what we need starting every game.

 

Even Chris Waddle is saying as I type this how Bannan is struggling without runners in front.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

But is any of it not true?

 

It was an attempt to draw attention to the fact that Gregory starting hasn't been working from a team perspective, and maybe there's a different way.

 

Anyway, can't be bothered nitpicking, the thread is about dropping Gregory. 

Any chance of talking about that?

 

Dropped him today.

 

Do you want a few hours to rewind and watch Berahino's performance before giving your expert opinion on how he was much better than Gregory?

 

Awful performance by the front man.