Time no guarantee

[Guest Grandad]

The oldest cliche in the book that gets wheeled out time and time again at times like this is 'we need to give the manager time, we can't keep changing'

 

So how long? And what if you're giving the wrong guy time? What if you give him 3 years and he gets relegated twice? And completely replaces your squad with players unfit to play at the level you're at?

 

What has nice boy Darren ever done in football anywhere to suggest that given time he can get us promoted. From any division?

[Mid Wicket]

DM has done nothing and is doing nothing to suggest he can get us anywhere near a promotion place. We need someone who's been there and done it, who know what it takes. 

[tomassOwl84]

I've never understood it either. Successful managers stay at clubs that the success matches the stature or expectations, Sean Dyche at Burnley even if they go down the bloke has performed miracles for them. However in the world of manager merry go round he is never touted for bigger things I wonder why?

Pep at City will stay whilst ever he is winning things, same with Klopp. Although when klopp was doing really well the likes of Madrid and Barcelona were circling.  Would he have gone? Probably. 

Even the bus driver after all his success and god like stature at pigs still came unstuck after one poor season. Ironically the season where they didn't perform above expectations. 

It is incredibly rare to find a manager that fits the club and their level of skill matches the expectations that the club and fans see as success. I dont beleive you have to wait too long to find it. Its even rarer to find a manager that can be successful at multiple clubs.

 

[frastheowl]

 

This is the dilemma we're in.

 

Moore is underperforming. But more worryingly, he's underperforming whilst showing no sign of progress, nor implementing a process nor seemingly sorting out any of the issues we desperately needed addressing.

 

But, is replacing Moore is the answer? After how many changes of managers, does the solution need to be looked at in other areas of the club?

 

I'm torn at present. Do I think Moore will get us promoted this season? No. Not a chance. Do I think Moore is right for us long term? I'm unsure, because of the issues I've given above. But, as fans, we have no clue about what goes off behind the scenes. Maybe Moore is addressing some deep rooted issues, but we have to suffer a bit of turbulence before seeing the benefit of it.

 

Equally so, it comes down to having the faith in the people making the decisions at the football club, to make the right decision if it comes to replacing Moore. I can't say I have much. We've switched from one style of manager to another then to another, since trying to replace Carlos. 

 

I just have no faith that we'd appoint the right manager...or perhaps more importantly, the right structure to allow the right manager to do his work effectively. I'm genuinely unsure what is the best course of action at the minute.

 

Moore has assembled this group of players, so there's an argument to suggest he's the most likely to make a success of them...but there's not much evidence to back that up. And the idea that a new manager would come in and make a success of this group of players is based on just as much hope than it is any statistical likelihood. 

 

I wouldn't argue vehemently against either way of thinking at present.

[TrickyTrev]

I’d be willing to give him more time (even with current results and league placing) if I could see something in our performances that suggested this group of players were starting to gel and the signs were there that things would improve eventually.

 

We are 15 games into the season and I’ve seen none of that. There has been no week on week improvement, we are making the same mistakes every match and there is no sign of things getting any better.

 

There hasn’t been a single match this season where I’ve left thinking “we played well today”.

 

If we give Darren Moore more time, they only thing it will guarantee is that we won’t be troubling the top 6 come the new year. 

[Big Jack]

Do we trust DC to make the right appointment???

Of course not, so there is our biggest dilemma.

[Southie_Owl]

The club needs a lift, and badly.  An injection of enthusiasm, passion, personality, fun, whatever you want to call it.  Right now it feels and looks as flat as a pancake.  We will just keep churning out these draws against MUCH smaller clubs until things change.  
As I’ve said before we need a Kevin keegan style appointment, obviously not the man himself but someone similar who will come in and give some joy to the players and fans.  I’ve stopped listening to Moore’s interviews a long time ago, bored of the bloke and the club right now 

[4evaowl]

Problem for DM is that he has no track record of success in management. Someone posted on here the other week about periods in Div 3 with Jack Charlton (some of which were much worse than now) yet he was a World Cup winner, winner of leagues and cups, and a recent very successful manager at Middlesbrough. We knew in our bones it would come right. 
DM doesn’t have that so won’t get the time JC did.

[Ellis Rimmer]

If DM had a better track record you would be more likely to feel he should have more time or if he was more convincing in his interviews but we don’t feel these things so it’s odd we won’t let him go.

 

I think through his tenure DC has often given more time to the manager than we fans would have given. So I don’t expect him sacked yet.

[dr. benway]

Sometimes I genuinely believe this club is cursed.

 

It seems whoever walks through the door, be it players or managers, go from promising to failure within weeks. Players that have excellent seasons elsewhere start brightly and fade within a couple of games, managers who seem great on paper fall into cycles of increasingly bizarre selections and tactics. I'd blame DC, but this has been going on since before he got here. In some ways he even seems like a victim of the curse himself—only we could finally get someone (supposedly) with cash and a desire to improve the club, and end up worse than when we started.

 

I just can't understand it.

[Guest mrbluesky]

It matters not one jot who the manager is.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, dr. benway said:

Sometimes I genuinely believe this club is cursed.

 

It seems whoever walks through the door, be it players or managers, go from promising to failure within weeks. Players that have excellent seasons elsewhere start brightly and fade within a couple of games, managers who seem great on paper fall into cycles of increasingly bizarre selections and tactics. I'd blame DC, but this has been going on since before he got here. In some ways he even seems like a victim of the curse himself—only we could finally get someone (supposedly) with cash and a desire to improve the club, and end up worse than when we started.

 

I just can't understand it.

 

 

Purely about who the owner is and the culture and ethics they set at the club

It all trickles down from there really

[adelphi1867]

23 minutes ago, Grandad said:

The oldest cliche in the book that gets wheeled out time and time again at times like this is 'we need to give the manager time, we can't keep changing'

 

So how long? And what if you're giving the wrong guy time? What if you give him 3 years and he gets relegated twice? And completely replaces your squad with players unfit to play at the level you're at?

 

What has nice boy Darren ever done in football anywhere to suggest that given time he can get us promoted. From any division?

The three previous Experienced managers ,2 with promotion's on their CV's,  have ALL stated that it will take at least 3 transfer windows to begin the change at Wednesday, so on that I would say at least 18 month's.

[dr. benway]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Purely about who the owner is and the culture and ethics they set at the club

It all trickles down from there really

 

Agreed, and don't get me wrong, I hold DC almost entirely responsible for the current situation. But every owner we've had in recent memory has failed to stop the rot. Are we really that bad at attracting decent owners?

[@owlstalk]

Just now, dr. benway said:

 

Agreed, and don't get me wrong, I hold DC almost entirely responsible for the current situation. But every owner we've had in recent memory has failed to stop the rot. Are we really that bad at attracting decent owners?

 

Sadly yes

 

How many owners for example have come in and invested heavily into the academy so we can grow our own talent?
Or improved the fan experience significantly?
Or created a welcoming open, transparent discussion with the fanbase and included them?

 

The current owner admitted he knew nothing about football when he bought the club - if that doesn't set any alarm bells off I don't know what would

[BRUCE LEE]

He’s had enough time for us to try and evidence his impact and progress in areas of the club

 

Yet we see nothing, not a crumb 

 

There’s absolutely nothing to build on
 

No identity, no system, no consistency, no lessons learnt, no fight, no fitness

 

The players look unmotivated, the fans have seen enough

 

We are plodding through the motions week by week and it’s not good enough to challenge for  promotion 

 

Miles off it

[sacré bleu]

We keep hearing we looked good for 20 minutes or so. During most games any team will have a spell when they are on top for a while but why is it never us that dominates play for the majority of the game?

Is it Moore's plan to try to absorb pressure until the opposition tire or are we not mentally or physically fit enough to impose ourselves for the full 90 minutes? 

Either way Moore needs to sort it out as it's clearly not working. Don't lets just "go again" lets try and do things differently, who knows it might just work. As it is we are just treading water when these players should be capable of much more.

[jonnyowl]

I always look at it this way when deciding if a manger should be give more time.

 

Is there a clear plan on how the manager wants the teams to play?

 

Is that plan trying to be implemented on the pitch?

 

Can fans actually see progress on the plan from match to match? 

 

Are results improving?

 

The answer to all 4 questions is No, No, No and No.

 

So for me he has to go!

 

Though I don't trust DC to make a good appointment!

[bronxowl]

36 minutes ago, Grandad said:

The oldest cliche in the book that gets wheeled out time and time again at times like this is 'we need to give the manager time, we can't keep changing'

 

So how long? And what if you're giving the wrong guy time? What if you give him 3 years and he gets relegated twice? And completely replaces your squad with players unfit to play at the level you're at?

 

What has nice boy Darren ever done in football anywhere to suggest that given time he can get us promoted. From any division?

This 100%

Time is running out, leave it another 5 games and it will be too late

[sheffield_dave]

18 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said:

I’d be willing to give him more time (even with current results and league placing) if I could see something in our performances that suggested this group of players were starting to gel and the signs were there that things would improve eventually.

 

We are 15 games into the season and I’ve seen none of that. There has been no week on week improvement, we are making the same mistakes every match and there is no sign of things getting any better.

 

There hasn’t been a single match this season where I’ve left thinking “we played well today”.

 

If we give Darren Moore more time, they only thing it will guarantee is that we won’t be troubling the top 6 come the new year. 

 

Correct.

 

After signing 14 new players in a short space of time towards the end of a turbulent summer, we have no right to expect to be in automatic contention after 15 games.

 

That said, after 15 games we SHOULD be seeing the building blocks. We should be able to see what the plan is, what the system is, have a rough idea what our best team is. 

 

I don't think we look any better than we did in August. Infact I think we're going backwards. We're losing touch and the team selections seem to get more confusing every week. It's an absolute circus.