Moore, the good the bad and the ugly

[Ray Von shabba]

3 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Nothing will improve here until we have a settled system and we play to win and stop worrying about the opposition. I doubt Liverpool or Man City adjust for Burnley or Norwich, they go and impose themselves.

 

Spot on

[room0035]

So what church is it and how do we get Messi, Ronaldo and Kane signed up as life long Christians.

 

[wakefieldowl]

From what the OP said, i would think our season is over then. DM's tactics/ philosophy isnt working in this league and he isnt going to change.  Players dont understsnd or arent gelling.

DC doesnt look like making the change, so a season of frustration, embarassment and mid table mediocrity awaits. Our only hope is that windass and luongo come back injury free and firing

[OWLERTON GHOST]

At least we now know now why Dazzer signed BPF.... and it certainly wasn't for football reasons ........

 

 

 Brother ..

     Brother

     Brotherleelove ..........

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

1 hour ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

At least we now know now why Dazzer signed BPF.... and it certainly wasn't for football reasons ........

 

 

 Brother ..

     Brother

     Brotherleelove ..........

And he still can't catch a ball

[morganowl]

excellent post . well he wont change? well he is a fool if he dont . we go 1 or 2 down to lesser teams and the crowd will turn very hostile and it wont do any1 any good , it could even see 1 of the players putting up 1 finger to us . play people where they play there best 

[sherlyegg]

2 hours ago, room0035 said:

Kane signed up as life long Christians.

Don't want Kane, wouldn't be Abel.

 

[prowl]

Moore is trying to play Premiere league football with Div 3 players. It's going to be a long season.

 

Our players aren't that adaptable, they are good at what they are good at, probably better at those things than other teams so it makes sense to play to those strengths rather than worrying about other teams and countering the. Do what we do best and we will do ok try to negate different teams each week and we will struggle.

[Nero]

8 hours ago, Memoryman said:

Donny fan in peace, I've been talking about Moore a lot with my Wednesdayite mate lately who suggested I post some insights on here (hi Ross!).

 

I say all of this as someone who liked DM when he was here and still does, but accepts he played a big part in the mess we're currently in. He is a complicated guy with a lot of quirks. Those quirks are his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness imo.

 

I see a lot of you complaining about him insisting on playing out from the back and playing players out of position. This will not change. Ever. Moore is very stubborn and does things his way, and this is his way. If you're expecting this to change anytime soon, it won't, no matter what results you're getting. He played some bizarre teams when he was here, with midfielders in defence, full backs up front, you name it. The formation and system will never change but the players' roles within that system will depending on who you're playing. Weirdly, more often than not that approach seemed to work here - we were the best team in the league in terms of PPG before his head got turned towards S6. There's method to the madness, I could never figure it out but it worked here.

 

Which brings me to the next thing. DM had real issues in the transfer market. He undoubtedly has great pull in the game and attracted players here who we had no right getting - Jacob Ramsey who's now a regular for Villa, Josh Sims who'd played in the PL before joining us, Matt Smith who's a full Wales international with a few dozen caps, and so on. But as I said, he's stubborn. We sold John Marquis ( off the back of a 20+ goal season) and Moore told us we had a "pound for pound" better player lined up, only for him to change his mind at the last minute. He refused to sign anyone and brought in 2 free agents from non league after the window closed who were about what you'd expect. He signed Ed Williams from the Conference North and never played him. He signed Omar Bogle who is useless, but he's a Christian mate of Darren's so he got a contract we're still bogged down by. We brought in a talent ID manager to help him out, which is when we really started to build a great squad - he'd identify the talent and Moore would use his pull to sign them. Giving DM free reign to sign who he wants gives mixed results. You'll get some quality but you'll also get a load of his mates from church. You have the budget to carry that though, we don't - and we're paying the price for it now.

 

The playing out from the back thing. I like this style of play and think it can work at this level. We were generally solid at the back so would be patient, pull teams out of shape, and generally score when they tired after 75-80 mins of chasing us around. We'd go one down fairly often for a side high up the league but you could usually count on us to turn it round late on. When he got us ticking after his first season, we were ruthless under Moore, often needing one or two quick breaks to score and shut out the opposition. It's never exactly exciting to watch but it can be very effective and if he gets it working for you you'll walk this league with the players you have. On the downside, while it's a good plan A he has no plan B. We came unstuck when fit, organised teams got in our faces and pressed high. We had no answer to it, and because DM will never change things up, it's easy to get found out. Again, this is something that won't change. It also took him a season to really get it working. I admit to not knowing the ins and outs of your finances but can you afford a season in mid table L1 to work out the kinks in his system? That's the question I'd be asking if I was Chansiri.

 

There are a few negative bits that came out after he'd left. How much of this is sour grapes from within the club I'm not sure, but the club hierarchy are generally very professional and don't slag off managers when they leave which makes me think it's true. Grant McCann left in similar circumstances to DM and had no such stories leak out, for comparison. The main one that shocked me was that Moore had no interest in working with our youth team, to the point he wouldn't even leave his office to watch them train. He's clearly very talented at developing other team's players on loan, but never looked to promote from within. There were also issues with his timekeeping and general laid back attitude to training. Apparently he would regularly turn up late and would never really impose any sort of discipline in training. This led to a big divide between Moore's men who'd throw it off and the players who'd been here a bit longer. The man must be a man management genius because he held it together while he was here, but after he left that divided dressing room caused us to implode, and we're still picking up the pieces from that now.

 

Oh, and his interviews. Save yourself 10 mins, go wash the pots or walk the dog or summat. You'll never learn anything from them, but I guess you know that already.

 

TL;DR Moore is a complex character who's set in his ways and will never change. You'll think he's a mad genius when you're winning but you'll think he's lost the plot when you're not. The things you guys want to change maybe worth persevering with, maybe not, but he will persevere with them whether you like it or not. Is that enough for a club like yours?

Great post, cheers. Interesting as someone said it indicates that there is method behind the madness whereas it just seems like madness at the moment.

 

The trouble is that hasn't really got a season and a half to sort it out at Wednesday. If someone said we will definitely be great next season i would accept a season of change. But i simply haven't seen anything to prove that he knows what he is doing. 

 

He has assembled a good squad and frankly i dont mind if he signs Jesus cos he knows him personally, but he won't last this season here without getting better results.

[Athelwulf]

8 hours ago, Memoryman said:

Donny fan in peace, I've been talking about Moore a lot with my Wednesdayite mate lately who suggested I post some insights on here (hi Ross!).

 

I say all of this as someone who liked DM when he was here and still does, but accepts he played a big part in the mess we're currently in. He is a complicated guy with a lot of quirks. Those quirks are his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness imo.

 

I see a lot of you complaining about him insisting on playing out from the back and playing players out of position. This will not change. Ever. Moore is very stubborn and does things his way, and this is his way. If you're expecting this to change anytime soon, it won't, no matter what results you're getting. He played some bizarre teams when he was here, with midfielders in defence, full backs up front, you name it. The formation and system will never change but the players' roles within that system will depending on who you're playing. Weirdly, more often than not that approach seemed to work here - we were the best team in the league in terms of PPG before his head got turned towards S6. There's method to the madness, I could never figure it out but it worked here.

 

Which brings me to the next thing. DM had real issues in the transfer market. He undoubtedly has great pull in the game and attracted players here who we had no right getting - Jacob Ramsey who's now a regular for Villa, Josh Sims who'd played in the PL before joining us, Matt Smith who's a full Wales international with a few dozen caps, and so on. But as I said, he's stubborn. We sold John Marquis ( off the back of a 20+ goal season) and Moore told us we had a "pound for pound" better player lined up, only for him to change his mind at the last minute. He refused to sign anyone and brought in 2 free agents from non league after the window closed who were about what you'd expect. He signed Ed Williams from the Conference North and never played him. He signed Omar Bogle who is useless, but he's a Christian mate of Darren's so he got a contract we're still bogged down by. We brought in a talent ID manager to help him out, which is when we really started to build a great squad - he'd identify the talent and Moore would use his pull to sign them. Giving DM free reign to sign who he wants gives mixed results. You'll get some quality but you'll also get a load of his mates from church. You have the budget to carry that though, we don't - and we're paying the price for it now.

 

The playing out from the back thing. I like this style of play and think it can work at this level. We were generally solid at the back so would be patient, pull teams out of shape, and generally score when they tired after 75-80 mins of chasing us around. We'd go one down fairly often for a side high up the league but you could usually count on us to turn it round late on. When he got us ticking after his first season, we were ruthless under Moore, often needing one or two quick breaks to score and shut out the opposition. It's never exactly exciting to watch but it can be very effective and if he gets it working for you you'll walk this league with the players you have. On the downside, while it's a good plan A he has no plan B. We came unstuck when fit, organised teams got in our faces and pressed high. We had no answer to it, and because DM will never change things up, it's easy to get found out. Again, this is something that won't change. It also took him a season to really get it working. I admit to not knowing the ins and outs of your finances but can you afford a season in mid table L1 to work out the kinks in his system? That's the question I'd be asking if I was Chansiri.

 

There are a few negative bits that came out after he'd left. How much of this is sour grapes from within the club I'm not sure, but the club hierarchy are generally very professional and don't slag off managers when they leave which makes me think it's true. Grant McCann left in similar circumstances to DM and had no such stories leak out, for comparison. The main one that shocked me was that Moore had no interest in working with our youth team, to the point he wouldn't even leave his office to watch them train. He's clearly very talented at developing other team's players on loan, but never looked to promote from within. There were also issues with his timekeeping and general laid back attitude to training. Apparently he would regularly turn up late and would never really impose any sort of discipline in training. This led to a big divide between Moore's men who'd throw it off and the players who'd been here a bit longer. The man must be a man management genius because he held it together while he was here, but after he left that divided dressing room caused us to implode, and we're still picking up the pieces from that now.

 

Oh, and his interviews. Save yourself 10 mins, go wash the pots or walk the dog or summat. You'll never learn anything from them, but I guess you know that already.

 

TL;DR Moore is a complex character who's set in his ways and will never change. You'll think he's a mad genius when you're winning but you'll think he's lost the plot when you're not. The things you guys want to change maybe worth persevering with, maybe not, but he will persevere with them whether you like it or not. Is that enough for a club like yours?

 

That's the fatal flaw in Moore's style, or indeed in that of any Third Division manager who tries to play in such a manner.

 

It's footballing suicide.

[stanningtonowl]

8 hours ago, royalowlisback said:

Why did we make the signings we made in the summer, when the majority of the players signed clearly don't fit into his style of play, and he has no intention of changing it?

Ask @Rev Owl?

[Costello 77]

Thanks to the OP.

I've been thinking about who Moore reminds me of.

 

And it's finally come to me.

 

Sven Goran Erickson.

Over thinking the game and ineffectual and full of pointless bluster.

 

 

[Salmonbones]

I've read the O/P and subsequent posts and most will know I'm not a Moore fan.

I suppose I can see some logic in what has been posted.   

I know I have no choice but to put up with Moore because Mr Chansiri will not get rid of him any time soon, so......we see what happens.

 

It hurts my eyes though, and my son gets bored at matches, which pains me considering the kind of football I witnessed at his age.   It's an awful shame these young fans don't get to see what we saw in the early 90's.  

 

 

[Raminpeace]

10 hours ago, Memoryman said:

Moore is very stubborn….. The formation and system will never change….

from a distance…isn’t it the exact opposite?
He changes formation and system every week?

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, CourteenerOwl said:

Passing out from the back under Moore just involves GK passing to CB, who panics and passes back to GK to launch or they give away.

 

You would think if he wants to play this way he would have identified last season that Iorfa and Dunkley are not able to play with the ball at their feet in this manner and go about signing CBs that could. 

 

There is no composure on the ball from any of the team. He has his detractors but the one player in our team who can be trusted with the ball is Bannan. 

 

Darren Moore SWFC - is literally instead of GK just kicking it, they pass to Che Dunkley or Iorfa to kick it. We deserve a lot better!

 

5 hours ago, asteener1867 said:

Fair enough post...More or less what we have seen.

I take on board memory mans liking of playing out from the back...Not seen much of Donny, but we simply haven't got the players to do it.

The over analysing of opponents...?..yea thats bloody obvious.

Moore spends too much time worrying about their strengths and our weaknesses....when the sqads tell you...it really should be the other way around in most cases.

Until DM gets on board on whats blindingly obvious to ordinary football fans...not analysts....pundits or so called experts...If its clear to me...they should have been on it weeks ago

And that’s the most annoying issue here

 

Play out from the back? Fine, go ahead.

 

But we don’t. Our version is literally start with BPF who has all the time in the world to pick out his long pass, but instead passes it to Dunkerly or Iorfa, who panic, flap and turn it back to BPF, who by now has a forward hearing down on him so he punts it under pressure,

 

It makes zero sense.

[toppOwl]

11 hours ago, Memoryman said:

Donny fan in peace, I've been talking about Moore a lot with my Wednesdayite mate lately who suggested I post some insights on here (hi Ross!).

 

I say all of this as someone who liked DM when he was here and still does, but accepts he played a big part in the mess we're currently in. He is a complicated guy with a lot of quirks. Those quirks are his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness imo.

 

I see a lot of you complaining about him insisting on playing out from the back and playing players out of position. This will not change. Ever. Moore is very stubborn and does things his way, and this is his way. If you're expecting this to change anytime soon, it won't, no matter what results you're getting. He played some bizarre teams when he was here, with midfielders in defence, full backs up front, you name it. The formation and system will never change but the players' roles within that system will depending on who you're playing. Weirdly, more often than not that approach seemed to work here - we were the best team in the league in terms of PPG before his head got turned towards S6. There's method to the madness, I could never figure it out but it worked here.

 

Which brings me to the next thing. DM had real issues in the transfer market. He undoubtedly has great pull in the game and attracted players here who we had no right getting - Jacob Ramsey who's now a regular for Villa, Josh Sims who'd played in the PL before joining us, Matt Smith who's a full Wales international with a few dozen caps, and so on. But as I said, he's stubborn. We sold John Marquis ( off the back of a 20+ goal season) and Moore told us we had a "pound for pound" better player lined up, only for him to change his mind at the last minute. He refused to sign anyone and brought in 2 free agents from non league after the window closed who were about what you'd expect. He signed Ed Williams from the Conference North and never played him. He signed Omar Bogle who is useless, but he's a Christian mate of Darren's so he got a contract we're still bogged down by. We brought in a talent ID manager to help him out, which is when we really started to build a great squad - he'd identify the talent and Moore would use his pull to sign them. Giving DM free reign to sign who he wants gives mixed results. You'll get some quality but you'll also get a load of his mates from church. You have the budget to carry that though, we don't - and we're paying the price for it now.

 

The playing out from the back thing. I like this style of play and think it can work at this level. We were generally solid at the back so would be patient, pull teams out of shape, and generally score when they tired after 75-80 mins of chasing us around. We'd go one down fairly often for a side high up the league but you could usually count on us to turn it round late on. When he got us ticking after his first season, we were ruthless under Moore, often needing one or two quick breaks to score and shut out the opposition. It's never exactly exciting to watch but it can be very effective and if he gets it working for you you'll walk this league with the players you have. On the downside, while it's a good plan A he has no plan B. We came unstuck when fit, organised teams got in our faces and pressed high. We had no answer to it, and because DM will never change things up, it's easy to get found out. Again, this is something that won't change. It also took him a season to really get it working. I admit to not knowing the ins and outs of your finances but can you afford a season in mid table L1 to work out the kinks in his system? That's the question I'd be asking if I was Chansiri.

 

There are a few negative bits that came out after he'd left. How much of this is sour grapes from within the club I'm not sure, but the club hierarchy are generally very professional and don't slag off managers when they leave which makes me think it's true. Grant McCann left in similar circumstances to DM and had no such stories leak out, for comparison. The main one that shocked me was that Moore had no interest in working with our youth team, to the point he wouldn't even leave his office to watch them train. He's clearly very talented at developing other team's players on loan, but never looked to promote from within. There were also issues with his timekeeping and general laid back attitude to training. Apparently he would regularly turn up late and would never really impose any sort of discipline in training. This led to a big divide between Moore's men who'd throw it off and the players who'd been here a bit longer. The man must be a man management genius because he held it together while he was here, but after he left that divided dressing room caused us to implode, and we're still picking up the pieces from that now.

 

Oh, and his interviews. Save yourself 10 mins, go wash the pots or walk the dog or summat. You'll never learn anything from them, but I guess you know that already.

 

TL;DR Moore is a complex character who's set in his ways and will never change. You'll think he's a mad genius when you're winning but you'll think he's lost the plot when you're not. The things you guys want to change maybe worth persevering with, maybe not, but he will persevere with them whether you like it or not. Is that enough for a club like yours?

 

Interesting read that mate.

 

Goodnight, thank you and may your God go with you.

[Owl Be Back]

Great OP.

 

Moore out.

[Rev Owl]

1 hour ago, stanningtonowl said:

Ask @Rev Owl?

Why me?

[Ronio]

Some interesting points from the OP, some of which gives us an insight into Darren Moore and the way he goes about things.  

 

I genuinely hope that Moore does make the change, I have read from a fair few already mentioning Moore's reluctance to change formation and his stubbornness when things don't go right.  

 

I really would like to see Darren throw caution to the wind with regards to the formation and tactics.  I can't get my head around why we attempt to play with three centre backs especially if you consider that we only have 2 fit defenders in Iorfa and Dunkley, both right footed players, least of all trying to play it from the back, which makes no logical sense whatsoever.  

 

I know why our players panic at the back, because if they mess up it leaves us wide open, it is essentially the worst place to lose the ball, because one mistake can and will punish us.  

 

If he does persist with the same systems and results don't improve in the immediate short term, then I can't see him lasting long in the job.  

[Lincowl]

So we used to have Paxao’s agency running the transfers and now it’s Darren Moore’s church community? We’re surprisingly bad on crosses considering.