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A defender all his playing career, but....


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10 minutes ago, Supersiggi2 said:

I think there's only two sides in the division that have conceded less than us. 

 

That tells me we can defend, but the worrying thing is when we concede. Is it mental? Physical? Lack of strength of character? Lack of leadership? Lack of a vocal keeper to organise the defence? All of the above? Something else?

 

Difference is that those teams also score more goals than us, they don't play defensively and try and sit on narrow leads until an inevitable lapse of concentration occurs. If they concede a goal they're capable of scoring another goal or 2, the way we set up means that we just don't create enough chances.

 

Yesterday was actually a rare game in which we did have quite a few decent chances, but the majority of these were due to Wimbledon leaving gaps in the second half rather than our attacking prowess.  They went 2-0 down and then made 2 subs to change their system and it paid off for them, I don't think our manager has the nous to do that - for some reason he "reacted" by taking off our best midfielder (on the day) and moving a striker back into midfield. 

 

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19 minutes ago, toooldforthis said:

Bannan can be very good with a football at his feet (except at set pieces). When he doesn't have a football at his feet he's a schoolboy running about as a headless chicken. A captain will see the shape, will understand the threat and organise...he thinks that he needs to drop into the back line as a hero defender.

 

Over the past two and a half seasons we have lost more games with him in the side 'running' midfield...we need a really strong midfield and we haven't had one for the past 3 seasons. Games are won in midfield.

He made the most tackles of any of the 22 players on the pitch first half.

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Leaving the scorer a simple tap in from 5 yrds - entirely avoidable. Even at this point there's only three defenders in the box - if Wildsmith did save the first the shot there a good chance it would fall to one of their players. 

 

The other defenders are still stood at the edge of the box on the far side - shocking defending.

 

image.png.642474462719ed95f7a6447660a04be3.png

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52 minutes ago, jp1981 said:

I think it shows we need a better defenders than what we have, you could even throw in midfielders, although those in front of the defence are not really known for been defensive midfielders.

 

Come January (If we are allowed) we desperately need a holding midfielder, a centre half and an actual left back. 

 

It's time to stop playing Palmer as a CB or LB and we should look to off load Dunkley to allow us to bring in a replacement. Oh, yeah, Stop f...in about with it at the back trying to play out, we don't have the players to do this.

 

Yes, we've needed a holding midfielder for years.

 

But you're right that our defenders aren't good enough to play the way Moore wants.

 

And even if they are/were, you need players in front of them in space to receive the ball.

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2 minutes ago, Animis said:

Leaving the scorer a simple tap in from 5 yrds - entirely avoidable. Even at this point there's only three defenders in the box - if Wildsmith did save the first the shot there a good chance it would fall to one of their players. 

 

The other defenders are still stood at the edge of the box on the far side - shocking defending.

 

image.png.642474462719ed95f7a6447660a04be3.png

 

And bearing in mind that Moore was himself a defender...

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Just looking at this stage again, it looks like the 5 defenders in the still are playing offside - they have set up a almost perfect line across the edge of the box. Unfortunately, no ones told the two defenders behind them in the box.

 

image.png.eb1e7baccf2c6c177ac781ab815c01d9.png

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2 hours ago, Daniele Giovanni said:

How many points have we lost with these goals? I'm sure we would still be in championship cos of these stupid goals, Moore is costing us big time, inept inept inept 

We have the 3rd best defensive record in the League but don’t let facts get in the way of a good moan. 

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2 hours ago, 0114 said:

Because we have no shape when on the back foot.
 

It’s all reactive defending. 
 

I mean look at this before they equalise. Iorfa & Dunkley have been dragged out to the right side of the box when they should be defending the centre. This leaves Palmer isolated.

 

Bannan, who should be the one closing down the crosser has decided to join the back line.

 

When we lose the ball we should be working as hard as possible to make a flat back 5 and a solid 3 in front of the defence. There is no shape, no organisation.

 

We can talk all day about scoring more goals but at 2-0 we should be able to see a game out. 

937F1ECB-C42C-40B4-935C-AF9EB053358C.png

This for me. And this also stems from a constant changing of formation/systems under DM. This same scenario happened a few times yesterday- to me it looked like the players don’t know their roles and who should be closing down/when! 
 

Another reason IMO as to why we concede late on constantly or we don’t come back after conceding first is a clear lack of leaders and strong minded characters on the pitch.
Who are they for us? Hutchinson possibly. Bannan - I’m not sure?

I think back to the influence Loovens had for us as a team, Semedo would run through brick walls to get a result, even Rob Jones for the one season with us, Reda. I’m sure there are others. I just don’t see this in the current crop of players. 

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3 hours ago, 0114 said:

Because we have no shape when on the back foot.
 

It’s all reactive defending. 
 

I mean look at this before they equalise. Iorfa & Dunkley have been dragged out to the right side of the box when they should be defending the centre. This leaves Palmer isolated.

 

I always find your tactical analysis interesting but I think you got this one wrong.  Hunt and Iorfa were caught upfield - fair enough, we can't totally sit back to defend a lead - so Bannan had to join the back line.  Hunt and Iorfa got back at pace, maybe Iorfa should have gone back central rather than to the ball on the right, but we did have everyone marked and it was very poor defending by Brown to concede the goal.  I wouldn't blame Moore for dropping two points, it was an individual error, he was never going to get a squad of world-beaters for zero transfer budget.

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9 minutes ago, WalworthOwl said:

I always find your tactical analysis interesting but I think you got this one wrong.  Hunt and Iorfa were caught upfield - fair enough, we can't totally sit back to defend a lead - so Bannan had to join the back line.  Hunt and Iorfa got back at pace, maybe Iorfa should have gone back central rather than to the ball on the right, but we did have everyone marked and it was very poor defending by Brown to concede the goal.  I wouldn't blame Moore for dropping two points, it was an individual error, he was never going to get a squad of world-beaters for zero transfer budget.

I get what your saying. The players have come back and got drawn towards the ball and not the box.

 

There was enough to stop the lad being allowed to come back inside and also enough to show him down the line. But the positions taken up for me are poor and represent that of a team with no coherent plan on defending as a unit. 
 

But over committing players forward is the reason we end up reactively defending and not proactively defending. 

 

At that point in the game we should be structured, organised and frustrating Wimbledon. Not getting caught on the counter when leading. 

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3 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

Personally I think it comes down to poor coaching on the training ground.

 

This has been a problem under Monk and now Moore.

 

2 coaches that can't get their team organised or implement a particular way of playing.

It probably is down to poor coaching, but realistically learning to defend a cross from either flank, from the by line or from the corner of the penalty area should have been drilled into “professional” players from U16 upwards I would suggest. They just don’t seem to be reading the game in the manner of Loovens, he managed the defence really well and made Tom Lees look a world beater because he always had positional sense, and probably just said to Lees never be more than 5 yards away from me unless I specifically say so. Are great readers of the game born to it or is it learnt behaviour? Discuss, in approx 2,000 words by Friday please.

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3 hours ago, Plonk said:

What is horrifying about that photo is we have five players ( half of our outfield team) within a yard or two of the ball, and yet he still has time and space to make a cross right into the danger area. Why didn’t one of them close him down

It is horrific…Bannan is never going to win a header in our box so his best bet would be to close the ball down and allow Iorfa to slip across to the penalty spot at least to possibly attack any cross coming in. As previously stated, astrophysics it ain’t!!

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1 hour ago, flash said:

And this also stems from a constant changing of formation/systems under DM. This same scenario happened a few times yesterday- to me it looked like the players don’t know their roles and who should be closing down/when!  

 

There's an interesting article in todays FL Paper on Darren Moore.

 

This makes the observation that DM has a habit of constantly changing tactics during a game, which we all know of course. DM defends this by saying that the teams we play have all sorts of different styles and formations and that we need to be able to respond to these. The article notes that in doing so we're basically reacting to the opposition and trying to neutralise them rather than establishing a signature style of our own. The conclusion is that DM is walking on thin ice.

 

Obviously we need to have some tactical flexibility, but I can't help thinking that DM is simply trying so many different things that the players are struggling to take it all in.

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22 hours ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

We need better everything than what we have. Including a realisation of our current situation and how we arrived at it..........

Possibly. Although, with the right tactics and an actual game plan, most of these players look like they could be capable of better than what we have seen so far. 

 

Is DM the man to get the best out of them, I very much doubt it. I hope that I am proven wrong.

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22 hours ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

Obviously we need to have some tactical flexibility, but I can't help thinking that DM is simply trying so many different things that the players are struggling to take it all in.

Yes

Often thought some players looked confused.

Perhaps Moore's plan is sound but some players can't process the instructions quickly enough or don't understand...you only need one whose unsure.

Though I am biased, always thought overcoaching is a problem for a lot of footballers.

Play it simple stupid if need be.

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When you look at Moore's playing style, he was a no nonsense, physical, traditional centre half. Win the ball and clear the danger. And he had a very  successful career because of the type of defender he was. 

 

Yet as a manager he seems to have thrown all his experience and knowledge of how to defend out of the window, and adopted a style of defending totally alien to how he played. 

 

I cannot understand why he dosnt use all his experience and knowledge on how to defend and pass this on to his defenders and coach them how to play this way. 

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4 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

When you look at Moore's playing style, he was a no nonsense, physical, traditional centre half. Win the ball and clear the danger. And he had a very  successful career because of the type of defender he was. 

 

Yet as a manager he seems to have thrown all his experience and knowledge of how to defend out of the window, and adopted a style of defending totally alien to how he played. 

 

I cannot understand why he dosnt use all his experience and knowledge on how to defend and pass this on to his defenders and coach them how to play this way.

We can't hit it long.

 

We don't have a big target man to hold it up, or a fast player to run behind.

V Wimbledon, their CBs were sat on the half way line and every ball hoofed out was back in our area within 20 seconds. I think we won 2-3 challenged balls all game.

We have to play it out to an extent, because we have no option.

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