parajack Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 13 hours ago, room0035 said: I would assume is because Rotherham are a more attack minded team. I was hoping that would be the answer someone came back with..... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewkesbury Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, parajack said: When players at this level are put under pressure we see the sort of unforced errors we saw at Wigan...they make mistakes,give fouls away for free kicks & penaltys make individual errors... Wigan had the best defence in the league before this game, only conceded 5 in 8 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said: Wigan had the best defence in the league before this game, only conceded 5 in 8 games. You'll never get anywhere on here wi' facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said: Wigan had the best defence in the league before this game, only conceded 5 in 8 games. Thats because its Div 3!!....its a poor League....with sh*te teams like us that cant score... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 13 hours ago, room0035 said: I would keep Bannan on the bench players showed more fight last night and the play was not as slow and predictable. Who play instead of him depend on the formation but presumably the same player who replaced him last night in a winning team that scored some goals. If we don't turn up from the first minute against Oxford at the week end it could be a very painful game to watch, but at £32 to watch them on the South other than season ticket holders and some away fans there won't be much more than 20-21,000 another 19,000 empty seats because of the insane match day prices for 3rd Division football. For another tenner you could watch Barcelona this weekend. Said it the other day, we need to move the ball quicker, use the channels and utilise space as it appears. When bazza plays he dictates the tempo and we play the ball too slow, for this system. We make too many sideways and backwards passes. Hence we then miss the opportunity to slide one into sapce, or the wingers are getting the ball with their backs to play, instead of facing the fullback and able to drive at them. I remember watching Doncaster when Moore had them flying, the big thing I did notice was the lads in cm where very box to box, breaking forwards to jion the attack and getting past the cf and getting into dangerous areas. It's an area we've struggled with since we lost KL, it's something that creates space and opportunites for the strikers as it sucks defenders in. It also helps create pressure as you end up getting onto second and third phase ball instead of the defence getting it cleared easily. I'd really like to see us go with the athleticism and box to box of Bashiru & Adrenian in the cm as I don't think we'd necessarily need a defensive mid in there with any of bazza, wing or Byers in there to keep it moving. I still remember the way the three big lads huddleston, livermore and diame bossed us in the playoff final. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: You'll never get anywhere on here wi' facts This is a poor League that Wigan lead....what about the other teams we either couldnt beat or bored our way to a draw playing? They all 'Real Madrid' too? Teams that are doing well in this League are the ones that are defending by attacking & usually playing direct.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewkesbury Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, parajack said: Thats because its Div 3!!....its a poor League....with sh*te teams like us that cant score... I've said from the beginning, turn these defences with pace and you'll score for fun. Get someone quick at CF and we're perfectly set up for attacking on the break, solid defence, good passers, decent wide players, just need Windass or someone quick to replace Gregory and we'll score loads. Keep Gregory for the bus parking teams. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Leave him on the bench on Saturday - never change a winning team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, parajack said: What is this best player nonsense? ...we have to look at how a players skills gell with others,as a team.... No point debating BB skills,but is Div 3 the place to platform it?...he has been here 7 years... No point being the best Player in a team that performs poorly and cant create scoring chances... Thats like the pointless comparison of 'possession' stats... PW got a tune out of Wing last year.& he was highly rated.....So whats happening here with our coaching team?... is it the way we set up? play?... Only one person talking nonsense if they don’t believe Bannan is our best player. Seeing as we have brought in 14 players and kept Bannan as captain suggests the manager wants him to be an integral part of the teams development. He has been here 7 years and every manager has had him as a first choice starter, maybe the new players need to step up and not Bannan step down. The only thing I would do is try options in free kicks and set pieces, Having said that who could do it. Bannan has scored and created more than Wing, has a better pass rate and has had more key passes mostly from a deeper role. What do you judge a midfielder on, how many times he gives the ball away, his lack of creativity, lack of composure on the ball and lack of goals, if so then Wing over Bannan every time so far this season. So of course stats matter, saying they don’t is more nonsense. PW is not our manager and maybe 14 new players has something to do with it. Which is why I have asked for calm, patience and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Willow Owl said: Only one person talking nonsense if they don’t believe Bannan is our best player. Seeing as we have brought in 14 players and kept Bannan as captain suggests the manager wants him to be an integral part of the teams development. He has been here 7 years and every manager has had him as a first choice starter, maybe the new players need to step up and not Bannan step down. The only thing I would do is try options in free kicks and set pieces, Having said that who could do it. Bannan has scored and created more than Wing, has a better pass rate and has had more key passes mostly from a deeper role. What do you judge a midfielder on, how many times he gives the ball away, his lack of creativity, lack of composure on the ball and lack of goals, if so then Wing over Bannan every time so far this season. So of course stats matter, saying they don’t is more nonsense. PW is not our manager and maybe 14 new players has something to do with it. Which is why I have asked for calm, patience and time. Ime not disagreeing with your summary,ime saying what have we achieved in those 7 Years?...& my views on the way we play are different to yours. Wing has been ineffective under DM but we have to look at why? In a Rotherham team,that was direct and more aggressive,he did well... In our systym under DM with BB central and dictating play we are slow and ponderous..'stats' comparisons under such circumstances are an meaningless,Wing is ineffective..... Without BB and playing a more direct,attacking style will allow Wing and others to develop their game.. This f course wont happen,Bannen wil return to the team,drop ever deeper & continue to dictate play,as he has done season after season,under different managers. The Q is not is BB a skillful player? The answer to that is always going to be a resounding YES! The Q is,is his skill,and preferred way of playing,together with DM preferred tactics of 'playing out from the back' stifling other players skill & creativity? Add to that BB being Captain, & the sum of the parts isnt equalling a winning combination,or entertaining football. Bannans fault? NO not really most of us have seen dynamics in our own workplace that have broken down,or simply not worked.... BB can only be,well BB.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Paul.. said: Ok then, Hutch to take all freekicks and corners! He's got more this season than our most gifted player. Maybe Bannan has been that bad when Hutch has more assists from free kicks and corners than Bannan does. Bannan is not warranting a starting role ahead of other midfielders, 1 goal and 1 assist in 8 games is simple not good enough at 3rd division level. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, parajack said: Ime not disagreeing with your summary,ime saying what have we achieved in those 7 Years?...& my views on the way we play are different to yours. Wing has been ineffective under DM but we have to look at why? In a Rotherham team,that was direct and more aggressive,he did well... In our systym under DM with BB central and dictating play we are slow and ponderous..'stats' comparisons under such circumstances are an meaningless,Wing is ineffective..... Without BB and playing a more direct,attacking style will allow Wing and others to develop their game.. This f course wont happen,Bannen wil return to the team,drop ever deeper & continue to dictate play,as he has done season after season,under different managers. The Q is not is BB a skillful player? The answer to that is always going to be a resounding YES! The Q is,is his skill,and preferred way of playing,together with DM preferred tactics of 'playing out from the back' stifling other players skill & creativity? Add to that BB being Captain, & the sum of the parts isnt equalling a winning combination,or entertaining football. Bannans fault? NO not really most of us have seen dynamics in our own workplace that have broken down,or simply not worked.... BB can only be,well BB.... Rotherham scored 4 more goals than us last season. A season we had to if the most anti football managers ever. Why can’t you play Bannan in a more direct system ? surely a win win for everyone. Wing was ineffective Tuesday night and created nothing in a more direct system. If as you say stats mean nothing. The major difference was support to Gregory and the fact a team tried to beat us and not commit to eleven behind a ball. Nobody has yet been able to say how we were better as a team without Bannan. Running about more and being direct is a formation and style change. Can you not do this with our best player in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said: Wigan had the best defence in the league before this game, only conceded 5 in 8 games. Indeed but they have also scored 15 goals compared to our 7 before the game. Scoring 2 goals a game conceding less than 1 you can see why they are in the top 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, room0035 said: He's got more this season than our most gifted player. Maybe Bannan has been that bad when Hutch has more assists from free kicks and corners than Bannan does. Bannan is not warranting a starting role ahead of other midfielders, 1 goal and 1 assist in 8 games is simple not good enough at 3rd division level. Check your facts if I was you. How many goals and assists has Hutchinson got. Who warrants starting before him as a replacement and why, I’ve already asked you this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 44 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Only one person talking nonsense if they don’t believe Bannan is our best player. Seeing as we have brought in 14 players and kept Bannan as captain suggests the manager wants him to be an integral part of the teams development. He has been here 7 years and every manager has had him as a first choice starter, maybe the new players need to step up and not Bannan step down. The only thing I would do is try options in free kicks and set pieces, Having said that who could do it. Bannan has scored and created more than Wing, has a better pass rate and has had more key passes mostly from a deeper role. What do you judge a midfielder on, how many times he gives the ball away, his lack of creativity, lack of composure on the ball and lack of goals, if so then Wing over Bannan every time so far this season. So of course stats matter, saying they don’t is more nonsense. PW is not our manager and maybe 14 new players has something to do with it. Which is why I have asked for calm, patience and time. Bannan has 1 goal and 2 penalties in 70 games (not mentioning the 3 or 4 he missed) and 7 assists. In the last 2 season Scott Fraser has 80 appearance 19 goals and 18 assist. Maybe Bannan is not as good as we all think he is.10 goals compared to 37 goals. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83owl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Only one person talking nonsense if they don’t believe Bannan is our best player. Seeing as we have brought in 14 players and kept Bannan as captain suggests the manager wants him to be an integral part of the teams development. He has been here 7 years and every manager has had him as a first choice starter, maybe the new players need to step up and not Bannan step down. The only thing I would do is try options in free kicks and set pieces, Having said that who could do it. Bannan has scored and created more than Wing, has a better pass rate and has had more key passes mostly from a deeper role. What do you judge a midfielder on, how many times he gives the ball away, his lack of creativity, lack of composure on the ball and lack of goals, if so then Wing over Bannan every time so far this season. So of course stats matter, saying they don’t is more nonsense. PW is not our manager and maybe 14 new players has something to do with it. Which is why I have asked for calm, patience and time. In 7 years our highest place finish has been 4th in the second tier and we are now in L1 so I don’t think that stating he has been a regular starter over 7 years is hardly some kind of beacon of excellence. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Check your facts if I was you. How many goals and assists has Hutchinson got. Who warrants starting before him as a replacement and why, I’ve already asked you this. Without Bannan in the team, we won and scored two goal with Bannan we lost 2 and drew 2. Without him for 1 game we got more points than with him for the last 4. Let's rest him for a few games and see if we keep winning. Bannan slows the play down and is so predictable in his play, now Hooper and Fletcher are gone and his long ball pass is off the table his assists have dried up too. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Rotherham scored 4 more goals than us last season. A season we had to if the most anti football managers ever. Why can’t you play Bannan in a more direct system ? surely a win win for everyone. Wing was ineffective Tuesday night and created nothing in a more direct system. If as you say stats mean nothing. The major difference was support to Gregory and the fact a team tried to beat us and not commit to eleven behind a ball. Nobody has yet been able to say how we were better as a team without Bannan. Running about more and being direct is a formation and style change. Can you not do this with our best player in the team. The problem is we want Bannan further forward but he doesn't play there. How long do you keep losing and drawing games before you give others a chance who will play where they are wanted. with Bannan 4 games, 2 losses, 2 draws = 2 points Without Bannan 1 game against league leaders away, 2 goals, 3 points now if we have 3 more games without Bannan could we win more points and score more goals. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, room0035 said: Without Bannan in the team, we won and scored two goal with Bannan we lost 2 and drew 2. Without him for 1 game we got more points than with him for the last 4. Let's rest him for a few games and see if we keep winning. Bannan slows the play down and is so predictable in his play, now Hooper and Fletcher are gone and his long ball pass is off the table his assists have dried up too. We have also won this season with Bannan in the side and in every game he’s played this season he has been in our top 3/4 performers. So on that basis who comes in for him as a replacement and why. He’s accused of too Hollywood balls, he’s accused of too many backward balls, but yet everybody agrees he’s our best player. Stop the world I need to get off !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, Willow Owl said: Check your facts if I was you. How many goals and assists has Hutchinson got. Who warrants starting before him as a replacement and why, I’ve already asked you this. Hutch has more goals and assist from free kicks and corners than Bannan this season. which is what I put. Being 1 goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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