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Reading - Points Deduction


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12 minutes ago, Sensible Soccer said:

I agree to a point but it would need to go further… for me the wage bill must be less than the turnover of the club by some way. That way if the wealthy owner leaves the club can still support itself.

 

we were crippled by more than just rediculous spending on transfer fees… the wages is what did for us in the end as it did when we fell out the Prem all those years ago.

 

failure payments need to go though. 

 

 

The owner wouldn't be able to leave without still been responsible for the debt, personal guarantees up front ect.

 

In our case the debt shouldn't have crippled us, I believe I read the interest payments were approximately £500k per year.  One or 2 good players wages, our problem was we were so poorly managed.

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Just now, yeadonowl said:

Not sustainable with average crowds of 13000 though

Personally hate the "sustainable" argument, no offence.

 

The rules permit £13m losses per anum.  At those levels most championship clubs are blown out of water competing with parachute payments.

 

Also, in no way shape or form is any business that loses £13m per annum sustainable.  It's a load of rubbish.

 

I can easily see why an owner' who is happy to fund losses of c£100million in s club would rather blow it over 3 years with hope of Getting into premier League with a chance of return rather than fund losses of £10m per year for 10 years which would likely see 10 years of competing just to stay in championship.

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55 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Why are clubs getting the opportunity to negotiate their punishment with the EFL?

 

Is this partly as a result of the EFL being heavy handed with our initial 12-point deduction which went down by 50% on appeal? Of course, by the time we got 6 points back we had already endured a summer of nobody worth their salt wanting to join a club on minus 12 points. Maybe it wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway, but maybe if we had originally been deducted 6 points before the start of the season we might have found 1 or 2 better players that could have earned us a few points more last season. 

I assume it’s to speed the whole process up ? Chansiri fought our case tooth and nail ( has is his right )  and it was alleged by the EFL that he was deliberately slowing the process down. Hence why we got our punishment a few seasons after we’d broke ffp . Only a guess !! 

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11 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Personally hate the "sustainable" argument, no offence.

 

The rules permit £13m losses per anum.  At those levels most championship clubs are blown out of water competing with parachute payments.

 

Also, in no way shape or form is any business that loses £13m per annum sustainable.  It's a load of rubbish.

 

I can easily see why an owner' who is happy to fund losses of c£100million in s club would rather blow it over 3 years with hope of Getting into premier League with a chance of return rather than fund losses of £10m per year for 10 years which would likely see 10 years of competing just to stay in championship.

'The rules permit £13m losses per anum.  At those levels most championship clubs are blown out of water competing with parachute payments.' 

 

I think you're allowed to lose more than that if youre getting failure payments. 

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4 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Because the EPL strong armed them into doing so by making solidarity payments dependent on adoption of FFP.

Well they strong armed their way into controlling the EFL rules on P&S using solidarity payments last year. They didn’t force the clubs to originally vote for FFP back in 2012.

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Why don't they make parachute payments cover wages of players still under contract who's contract started 12 months or more prior.

 

The reason for parachute payments was that players wouldnt sign for clubs under threat of relegation so the payments were needed to cover wages if they go down. 

 

Why cant the payments actually cover that?

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15 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Not what a few owners have said on this who actually we're in the vote...

Care to expand?
 

They made an agreement last summer that would mean the PL now control the rules of FFP for Championship clubs (I agree that’s wrong and they did use the pandemic to strong arm EFL clubs).

 

My point is back in 2012 when the EFL clubs voted in favour for FFP it didn’t concern the PL as they didn’t decide on FFP until 2013. The clubs should never have voted for it in the 1st place, it completely restricts any clubs ability to progress. 

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1 hour ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

It's not right so though is it?

 

Just the inevitable consequence of a broken system that was only adopted in the first place because the EPL strong armed the EFL to adopt the rules that skew massively in protecting the status quo.

Well said!

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1 hour ago, Lucas Joao's Tooth said:

It's a mockery when Teams willing to spend money in the Championship and below are punished but the top teams such as Man City can splash 100m on a player with no consequences.

 

Limitations are needed throughout all of football, wage limits and transfer limits, a equal playing field, there shouldn't be a difference between Burnley and Man City just because of the income of the club but this has to start from the top downwards, not from the bottom up like they are trying.

Problem is the premier league won't want it, the FA won't want it, they want English football to be the dominate force in world football they want the big TV deals and their product shown all over the globe.

Sadly it's all down to money and the people at the top are making money selling a product.

The gap between the Premier and Championship is ever growing, and all it's leading too is more money in the championship to go for broke to get to the big time because the money is astronomical.

Spot on!

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The whole thing is a mess and needs some financial wizards to develop a system that's fair to all and takes parachute payments into account or it will stay predictive as it's going now. There appears to be clubs who're just looking to get promoted to the Premier with little to no ambition of staying there, just happy for the payday, up and down, up and down, money money money. The road to ruining football is a long one, but we've come a long way down it now.

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Expecting the usual reactions to this post like ‘we shouldn’t have broke the rules’ ‘Chansiri’s this, Chansiri’s that’ but we got  well and truly shafted by the EFL IMO?

 

All you ever hear is -9points here, -9 points there, even clubs negotiating the extent of their punishments? Yet we get hit with -12 points straight at the start of last season (granted this became -6 on appeal) but to start at a massive advantage right at the start well and truly f**ked us over? Neither Derby or Reading are going to find themselves in that position. I’d like to bet Derby’s possible relegation will only be down to the likely points deduction for entering administration?

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Just now, Jim said:

Expecting the usual reactions to this post like ‘we shouldn’t have broke the rules’ ‘Chansiri’s this, Chansiri’s that’ but we got  well and truly shafted by the EFL IMO?

 

All you ever hear is -9points here, -9 points there, even clubs negotiating the extent of their punishments? Yet we get hit with -12 points straight at the start of last season (granted this became -6 on appeal) but to start at a massive disadvantage right at the start well and truly f**ked us over? Neither Derby or Reading are going to find themselves in that position. I’d like to bet Derby’s possible relegation will only be down to the likely points deduction for entering administration?

 

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