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Here's my main frustration


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33 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:



Hi mate,

This one iisn't a Bannan thread


If you want to pour hate on him why not head to the ten zillion Barry Bannan threads that people post in when they jump on that particular bandwagon

 

ta

 

There is no hate mate, just to make things clear, I would not condone hate, or use hate in anything I write on here.

We may disagree on many things but what you are accusing me of is a falsehood.

As for Bandwagon jumping, you in particular do an awful lot of this when it suits your agenda.

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15 hours ago, Johnny Concrete said:

 

 

Wether this is a new team and yes it does take time for them gel, but we just don't seem to be getting the basics right such as sticking to a settled squad or having a plan B ( whatever plan A actually is)  

 

 

NO PLAN B.jpg


 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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Was thinking about the similarities to playing Shrewsbury 45 years ago. I remember stood on the kop with my Dad when we lost 1-0 and Wylde miss a penalty. We'd started the season on a high and were in the top 6. The crowd were agitated as expectations where high, and the game was frustrating. 

 

 

Shrewsbury 1976.jpg

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17 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


We're into the new season now

We've had a couple of good results, some average ones and some bad ones


But forget the actual results for a moment. 

Let's have a look at the squad, the formation, tactics, approach, and the starting eleven

What is it?

I'm struggling to say what our style is (apart from playing from the back), I have no idea what our formation is, I don't know what our starting eleven should be.

That's my main concern/frustration

It's like we are into the season but playing around with the starting lineup and formations like it's the start of pre-season

That's the main frustration for me.

Not the results but the lack of understanding

Agreed. The only discernable consistent evidence of a Moore/Wednesday style developing is playing loads of short passes starting from the back. 

There have been glimpses like yesterday's  first half hour when we've really got at teams but lacked the finishing touch. (hopefully Berahino will solve this when fully up to speed). Unfortunately for the most part though we've been ponderous, indecisive and unadventurous.

Of course the players have to stand up and be counted but the unit as a whole is still disjointed and ostensibly lacking in direction. 

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In patches we’ve looked a really good team. But in other patches we’ve looked poor. 
 

I can actually see what we’re trying to do. The formation we’re playing is pretty clear to me. We just need key players to start performing. 
 

In this formation I think the wingers are crucial and also the player tasked at supporting Gregory from midfield. I think this best suits Wing, he looked really good against Huddersfield but since then hasn’t performed. We need a number 10 in there that can link everything together. 

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18 hours ago, @owlstalk said:


We're into the new season now

We've had a couple of good results, some average ones and some bad ones


But forget the actual results for a moment. 

Let's have a look at the squad, the formation, tactics, approach, and the starting eleven

What is it?

I'm struggling to say what our style is (apart from playing from the back), I have no idea what our formation is, I don't know what our starting eleven should be.

That's my main concern/frustration

It's like we are into the season but playing around with the starting lineup and formations like it's the start of pre-season

That's the main frustration for me.

Not the results but the lack of understanding

Here's my take on the game yesterday, also in the games so far.

I thought the penalty miss deffinatley changed the game and the mind set of both team's.

Our players head's dropped from then on where the Shrew's player's were lifted and began to dominate in midfield.

The second half was a history lesson from last season, Moor deffinately has a job on his hand that wont be solves over night, or in a few game's.

The attitude of the player's is still questionable.

Tongue in cheek: I think we sent the wrong Goalie to Exeter😉

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33 minutes ago, S72 Owl said:

In patches we’ve looked a really good team. But in other patches we’ve looked poor. 
 

I can actually see what we’re trying to do. The formation we’re playing is pretty clear to me. We just need key players to start performing. 
 

In this formation I think the wingers are crucial and also the player tasked at supporting Gregory from midfield. I think this best suits Wing, he looked really good against Huddersfield but since then hasn’t performed. We need a number 10 in there that can link everything together. 

 

Agreed. I'm pretty convinced that Moore will play Shodipo every game given the chance, because he gets crosses in, cuts inside, drifts along the front line and supports the main striker. I reckon Moore has created his own problem when signing Berahino. He's decided he's too good a player to turn down, but he doesn't actually fit our system. Personally, I think Sow can also fit the system well, but I've not seen enough to be sure. Playing 4-2-3-1 is going to be tricky to get right with Gregory as the striker, because we have nobody who fits that role well, so we are looking at Gregory starting nearly all the matches and nobody who can cover him. A player like Smith at Rotherham who can compete in the air against any centre half but has some mobility is the type that would work short term, especially if we are getting crosses in the box. I think Moore looks at teams like Liverpool and sees how well they can play the 4-2-3-1 system (both are more like 4-2-1-2-1) without a big striker and perhaps thinks he can achieve similar things, on the basis that better "footballers" will shine at L1 level and the formation makes us difficult to score against, but what he is missing is that we need to be creating far more chances, the players fitness needs to go up another couple of notches and we need a long time to get used to the system, time fans may not give him, plus it's not guaranteed to ultimately work. Liverpool also do so well because of their full backs being so creative, which we don't have and all their 3 midfielders tend to be combative, in fact Shaqiri couldn't ever find a regular starting place because he didn't put his foot in enough. That allows them to keep going with the high press. In Wing, Byers and Bannan we have 3 midfielders who don't win enough in midfield. 

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56 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Agreed. I'm pretty convinced that Moore will play Shodipo every game given the chance, because he gets crosses in, cuts inside, drifts along the front line and supports the main striker. I reckon Moore has created his own problem when signing Berahino. He's decided he's too good a player to turn down, but he doesn't actually fit our system. Personally, I think Sow can also fit the system well, but I've not seen enough to be sure. Playing 4-2-3-1 is going to be tricky to get right with Gregory as the striker, because we have nobody who fits that role well, so we are looking at Gregory starting nearly all the matches and nobody who can cover him. A player like Smith at Rotherham who can compete in the air against any centre half but has some mobility is the type that would work short term, especially if we are getting crosses in the box. I think Moore looks at teams like Liverpool and sees how well they can play the 4-2-3-1 system (both are more like 4-2-1-2-1) without a big striker and perhaps thinks he can achieve similar things, on the basis that better "footballers" will shine at L1 level and the formation makes us difficult to score against, but what he is missing is that we need to be creating far more chances, the players fitness needs to go up another couple of notches and we need a long time to get used to the system, time fans may not give him, plus it's not guaranteed to ultimately work. Liverpool also do so well because of their full backs being so creative, which we don't have and all their 3 midfielders tend to be combative, in fact Shaqiri couldn't ever find a regular starting place because he didn't put his foot in enough. That allows them to keep going with the high press. In Wing, Byers and Bannan we have 3 midfielders who don't win enough in midfield. 

You either have a midfield three who are so technically good that they completely outplay the opposition ala City, or you have an industrious, combative midfield like Liverpool who never give the opposition a moment to rest.

 

Unfortunately, for the level we are at, I'm not sure we have either. Not good enough to outplay the opposition and too easily bullied when it becomes a scrap.

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3 hours ago, bigthinrob said:


How in God’s name can you possibly spin this to blame Chansiri for anything to do with team decisions?

 

Seriously???

 

Chansiri was being grudgingly lauded a few weeks ago for giving Darren (The saviour of SWFC at the time), full control of ALL team matters, backing him 100% on signings,  keeping out of the way and not ‘sticking his nose in’.

 

Now amazingly, DM isn’t living up to the hype and guess what? Yep, it’s Chansiri’s fault.

 

The ONLY culpability you can lay at DCs door is the fact it was him who set Darren Moore on in the first place. A decision that was being touted as genius 4 weeks ago! 
 

We get it, that some people will never forgive DC & blame him for everything from Climate change to the Afghanistan balls up, but in this debate about team matters, at least keep it honest.

 

 

 

Oh dear

 

Another chansiri backside kisser....I've always been constant in my loathing of chansiri since the club started dropping through the floor, and matters we're mentioned re " family " team and management selections "  Never wavered from that, never lauded DM as a saviour... Always said wait and see after 25 games..

 

The decisions being made during the game, are the same astounding decisions and indecisions that were made two years ago.

 

That's all I'm saying.. 

 

You keep kissing chansiris backside... 

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Yeah it is concerning. I also don't know what was going on in the last 25 mins. Why was Kamberi on the left? Why did Bannan on several occasion seem like he was up front? It was like he was waiting for a long ball up to him, which is just mind boggling as the team struggled to put any attacks together.

 

I guess its early days still and we could find it all falling into place in the next 5/6 games. Here's hopingt!!

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6 hours ago, Bouncing Owl said:

We have been playing 4-3-3, not 4-2-3-1 folks. Hutch was CDM yesterday and Dennis and Bannan were ahead of him but neither were a number 10. 

It's not 4-3-3 though - it's 4-5-1.

We rarely get the two wide men anywhere near the lone striker.

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1 hour ago, 4evaowl said:

It's not 4-3-3 though - it's 4-5-1.

We rarely get the two wide men anywhere near the lone striker.

Correct.

 

Liverpool play 433 with Mane and Salah supporting the centre forward. We play 451 with our 2 wide men hugging the touchline.

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There's a thin line between success and failure. 

I watched the game back on the extended highlights today and Berahino missed an absolute sitter. His goal was a more difficult header. Couple that with Bannan's penalty miss and we are 3-0 after 30 minutes.

The same can be said about the Morecambe game. We missed a boat load of chances and were made pay for it. Teams don't tend to play at that intensity for 90 minutes but if you miss a number of chances and the opposition then equalise then uncertainly naturally creeps in.

My main concern (ironically given the slow start to the transfer window) is that we've signed too many. No Byers, Paterson and Brown yesterday. Brown started the season very well and is incredibly hard working. Unless he's got an injury then why is he not in and around the squad?

My concern is that we have too many wide players so we aren't getting the consistency in those positions. Have we actually had a settled period of playing two of the same out wide? I doubt it.

Overall it's not great but not terrible. The games we've lost bar Plymouth we should have comfortably been out of sight. 

Edited by swfcGibbo
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2 minutes ago, Bassetts Allsorts said:

If DM can make his mind up regarding his best side.

 

And tactics.

 

And formation.

 

And style of play.

 

Then I think we'll come good.

 

It's like we need an international break or something so we can work on all of the above...

2 weeks !  Not long to wait, but didn't we just have one !

 

then is there not another in November ?

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I don't think we will see a settled side till after next international break, not surprising with the amount of new faces.

 

Also, by end of October/November, we will also have Windass back in contention.

 

 

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i grumbled in another post about square pegs round holes, and what does he do? he brings on kamberi AGAIN on the left wing, with 2 natural wingers on the bench. Kamberi doesn't have the pace or the skill to be brought on as a left winger, he's literally a centre forward or nothing and that's at a push. Meanwhile Marvin Johnson and Sow, natural wingers with a trick, a bit of pace and a good delivery are unused substitutes. For me if he wants to bring on Kamberi then  1 of the 3 centre midfielders should have been hooked off and then he can get used as a striker alongside Gregory. Almost feel sorry for him to be honest when he gets brought on as a left sided player

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