Derby- Enter Administration

[FreshOwl]

On 18/09/2021 at 12:04, Old Woodbourn Owl said:

Correction Rooney is worth 122 million he could buy a 50% share in us.

How on Earth is Rooney worth £122m as a commodity?

[unkastav]

26 minutes ago, Minton said:

Ouch. League 2 beckons...

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/derby-county-points-deduction-championship-25018115

Id love it

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

51 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

As you say if Derby were already relegated when we played them last season, they would have been on a downer and probably not motivated when they played us, so we would probably have beaten them and stayed up.

 

Yes, it would have been like our previous game against Forest, when they had their flip-flops on and struggled to handle our highly-motivated, win-at-all-costs band of brothers as we battled valiantly against the drop.

 

And drew 0-0.

 

[SallyCinnamon]

I listened to that Mel Morris interview. And i did feel a bit sorry for him.

[sheffield_dave]

On 20/09/2021 at 08:24, N0rtherner said:

Only a season late... EFL seem to have a new, big target in their crosshair every season these days

 

More questions about what their actual purpose is here and who they actually serve or care about.

 

I don't like Derby and don't have a lot of time for some of the fluffy "got to feel for the fans" chatter, but there's no question who the "enemy" is here and it isn't clubs like Wednesday & Derby.

 

The EFL is simply a cog in a machine that isn't working. The status quo that was "saved" by defeating the European Super League plans remains as rotten to the core as the ESL was. 

[SwellOwl]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I listened to that Mel Morris interview. And i did feel a bit sorry for him.

 

Why?

 

[kobayashi]

1 hour ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

More questions about what their actual purpose is here and who they actually serve or care about.

 

I don't like Derby and don't have a lot of time for some of the fluffy "got to feel for the fans" chatter, but there's no question who the "enemy" is here and it isn't clubs like Wednesday & Derby.

 

The EFL is simply a cog in a machine that isn't working. The status quo that was "saved" by defeating the European Super League plans remains as rotten to the core as the ESL was. 

The people that own and operate run Wednesday and Derby were happy to cheat and break the rules that the clubs had collectively agreed for several seasons and having done so both then tried to cheat again through financial manipulation. Should the EFL the body that are tasked by the clubs to enforce the rules of the competition just have turned a blind eye to this? The enemy is the likes of Morris and Chansiri.

[Neal M]

3 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

Wycombe are looking into taking legal action, saying Derby should have had points deducted last season and Wycombe would have stayed up.

 

As you say if Derby were already relegated when we played them last season, they would have been on a downer and probably not motivated when they played us, so we would probably have beaten them and stayed up.

 

I can't see any legal action against the EFL having any chance of succeeding.

Could have been.

 

May not have been.

 

Don’t you remember an already relegated Wednesday thumping Burnley 7-2 in late April 2003?

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

3 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I listened to that Mel Morris interview. And i did feel a bit sorry for him.

Listened to it as well and he made a fair few valid points. 

 

It's a broken system in EFL, very few sides achieve promotion to EPL without busting FFP in their promotion season unless they have parachute payments and some do even with them.

 

However, he made choice to budget to chase dream and so going administration route when he does have means not to is unforgivable.

[sheffield_dave]

56 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

The people that own and operate run Wednesday and Derby were happy to cheat and break the rules that the clubs had collectively agreed for several seasons and having done so both then tried to cheat again through financial manipulation. Should the EFL the body that are tasked by the clubs to enforce the rules of the competition just have turned a blind eye to this? The enemy is the likes of Morris and Chansiri.

 

I don't disagree, nor do I think it's the EFL's responsibility to hold clubs hands, but is there a middle ground between that and offering any support to clubs beyond just points deductions? 

 

The way the EFL position themselves on these issues just makes it sound like they are sitting there waiting to pick a new target. It was us last year. It's Derby this. It's been Forest, Birmingham, Luton, Wigan etc in years gone by. As a governing body, do they ever learn anything? What lessons are they taking about the sustainability of their leagues? Or are they just handing out the punishments when things go wrong? Satisfied for the credibility of their league to be determined by asterisks across 3 divisions?

 

The boundaries of rules and cheating are also only set by the environment the leagues operate in. I think they reflect a flawed and broken system, an unfair system, a system that doesn't work for the majority of the league members, a system warped by the Premier League and that unfairly favours those most recently members of it. Like I said above, the EFL are just a cog in a larger machine which I don't think is working, is sustainable or healthy for the game. You can use whatever words you want to describe the likes of Morris and Chansiri.. some might say incompetent, others might say cheats.. but either way I think they're relatively small fry in what's a vastly bigger problem. A problem I think is being masked over and ignored as people fall over to fight things like the ESL.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

3 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

I don't disagree, nor do I think it's the EFL's responsibility to hold clubs hands, but is there a middle ground between that and offering any support to clubs beyond just points deductions? 

 

The way the EFL position themselves on these issues just makes it sound like they are sitting there waiting to pick a new target. It was us last year. It's Derby this. It's been Forest, Birmingham, Luton, Wigan etc in years gone by. As a governing body, do they ever learn anything? What lessons are they taking about the sustainability of their leagues? Or are they just handing out the punishments when things go wrong? Satisfied for the credibility of their league to be determined by asterisks across 3 divisions?

 

The boundaries of rules and cheating are also only set by the environment the leagues operate in. I think they reflect a flawed and broken system, an unfair system, a system that doesn't work for the majority of the league members, a system warped by the Premier League and that unfairly favours those most recently members of it. Like I said above, the EFL are just a cog in a larger machine which I don't think is working, is sustainable or healthy for the game. You can use whatever words you want to describe the likes of Morris and Chansiri.. some might say incompetent, others might say cheats.. but either way I think they're relatively small fry in what's a vastly bigger problem. A problem I think is being masked over and ignored as people fall over to fight things like the ESL.

Add reading to list.. 9 points deduction incoming.

 

Basically if you don't have a parachute payment and make an attempt to complete you will bust FFP within 3 years if you don't go up.

 

The only reason the rules were voted in was because premier League had the EFL clubs nether regions in a vice as the payments from the EPL were  conditional on them being adopted.

[SallyCinnamon]

1 hour ago, SwellOwl said:

 

Why?

 

I think he’s a local lad who genuinely wanted to put his football club on the map. Probably got a bit carried away and should have reigned the spending in - you could definitely call it reckless. But he sounded genuinely gutted.

 

He was right that the EFL system is broken. It doesn’t reward ambition unless you have parachute payments. That’s no excuse though, similar to Chansiri here. They’re the rules at the end of the day, and breaking them could put your club at the brink of existence.

[SallyCinnamon]

34 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

Listened to it as well and he made a fair few valid points. 

 

It's a broken system in EFL, very few sides achieve promotion to EPL without busting FFP in their promotion season unless they have parachute payments and some do even with them.

 

However, he made choice to budget to chase dream and so going administration route when he does have means not to is unforgivable.

Administration route is horrible for every club and fan. But in this scenario it might be the best way of Derby resetting and finding a buyer. Which I think they will - just like Wigan did last season. 
 

It hurts Mel Morris and his pockets more.

Edited September 21, 2021 by SallyCinnamon

[kobayashi]

28 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

I don't disagree, nor do I think it's the EFL's responsibility to hold clubs hands, but is there a middle ground between that and offering any support to clubs beyond just points deductions? 

 

The way the EFL position themselves on these issues just makes it sound like they are sitting there waiting to pick a new target. It was us last year. It's Derby this. It's been Forest, Birmingham, Luton, Wigan etc in years gone by. As a governing body, do they ever learn anything? What lessons are they taking about the sustainability of their leagues? Or are they just handing out the punishments when things go wrong? Satisfied for the credibility of their league to be determined by asterisks across 3 divisions?

 

The boundaries of rules and cheating are also only set by the environment the leagues operate in. I think they reflect a flawed and broken system, an unfair system, a system that doesn't work for the majority of the league members, a system warped by the Premier League and that unfairly favours those most recently members of it. Like I said above, the EFL are just a cog in a larger machine which I don't think is working, is sustainable or healthy for the game. You can use whatever words you want to describe the likes of Morris and Chansiri.. some might say incompetent, others might say cheats.. but either way I think they're relatively small fry in what's a vastly bigger problem. A problem I think is being masked over and ignored as people fall over to fight things like the ESL.

The majority of the league seem to get by without running into the issues at SWFC or Derby caused by the incompetent cheats that have run the clubs.

Rather than "target SWFC" it could easily be said the EFL bent over backwards to try and "help" Chansiri get out of his own mess...they knew as well as anyone that the ground sale was a "fix" to cover his cheating but they were happy to rubber stamp it just so long as he did it on time. That he couldn't even do that was entirely down to his own arrogance/incompetence not the EFL...even in the summer they allowed him to get away with not paying players properly for months-on-end with a slap on the wrist and no punishment so long as he doesn't do it again in the next few months. 

[S36 OWL]

The EFL have created this entire shieteshow by allowing the parachute payments to be used to pay massive wages and massive transfer fees by the relegated clubs, forcing those without them to overspend to try and compete. 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

20 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

The EFL have created this entire shieteshow by allowing the parachute payments to be used to pay massive wages and massive transfer fees by the relegated clubs, forcing those without them to overspend to try and compete. 

But why were they allowed? Why were the FFP restrictions brought in? Not EFLs fault, was all premier League driven and if the EFL clubs didn't vote the rules in the premier League wasn't going to pay the solidarity payments to the EFL clubs.

 

All this mess is premier League driven.  Only a independent regulator can solve this.

[S36 OWL]

1 minute ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

But why were they allowed? Why were the FFP restrictions brought in? Not EFLs fault, was all premier League driven and if the EFL clubs didn't vote the rules in the premier League wasn't going to pay the solidarity payments to the EFL clubs.

 

All this mess is premier League driven.  Only a independent regulator can solve this.

 

Relegated Premier league clubs shouldn't receive millions of pounds when they are relegated,but it's being allowed to happen for some bizarre reason. 

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Administration route is horrible for every club and fan. But in this scenario it might be the best way of Derby resetting and finding a buyer. Which I think they will - just like Wigan did last season. 
 

It hurts Mel Morris and his pockets more.

It saves Mel some money. It's why he has done it.

[pazowl55]

12 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

Relegated Premier league clubs shouldn't receive millions of pounds when they are relegated,but it's being allowed to happen for some bizarre reason. 

The reason is because there wage bill will be twice that of a championship club and there income roughly the same.

[Plonk]

2 hours ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

I don't disagree, nor do I think it's the EFL's responsibility to hold clubs hands, but is there a middle ground between that and offering any support to clubs beyond just points deductions? 

 

The way the EFL position themselves on these issues just makes it sound like they are sitting there waiting to pick a new target. It was us last year. It's Derby this. It's been Forest, Birmingham, Luton, Wigan etc in years gone by. As a governing body, do they ever learn anything? What lessons are they taking about the sustainability of their leagues? Or are they just handing out the punishments when things go wrong? Satisfied for the credibility of their league to be determined by asterisks across 3 divisions?

 

The boundaries of rules and cheating are also only set by the environment the leagues operate in. I think they reflect a flawed and broken system, an unfair system, a system that doesn't work for the majority of the league members, a system warped by the Premier League and that unfairly favours those most recently members of it. Like I said above, the EFL are just a cog in a larger machine which I don't think is working, is sustainable or healthy for the game. You can use whatever words you want to describe the likes of Morris and Chansiri.. some might say incompetent, others might say cheats.. but either way I think they're relatively small fry in what's a vastly bigger problem. A problem I think is being masked over and ignored as people fall over to fight things like the ESL.

Superbly put Dave