Beauchief Owl Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Opposing teams that are prepared to press will love our playing it out from the back approach. Once they get possession they're in a dangerous area. A lot easier than having to create chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Playing out from the back needs comfortable confident options all across the back-line. That’s impossible with a right-footed LCB and a right-footed LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrie’s Left Peg Posted September 11, 2021 Author Share Posted September 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ronio said: I don't like this system personally, much prefer a long punt upfield then push to win the first or second ball and build from there. Herein lies the problem. Some people ( not you @Ronio ) equate the system to always playing from goalkeeper to defender to defender. Those with this misconception also include professionals Gareth Southgate and the bloke at Brighton whose name escapes me. In a nutshell, “playing out from the back” was popularised by Bielsa and followers as a way of counteracting teams who “park the bus” by limiting space in their defensive third. Idea is to draw the opposites towards you this creating space for creative players. This can be done by playing through the press or bypassing it. You will often see Man City’s keeper chipping the ball over the high press into the space between the lines. If you closely watch Liverpool they are actually quite direct. They hit their front 3 as early as they can, once the opposites have been drawn out of position. If the opposites stay in their disciplined shape then your defence should carry the ball until creating an overload. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said: It’s all about where you receive the ball in relation to the press. Therefore you try to be “between the opposites defensive lines”. Also at an angle of 45 degrees or so from the ball player and side on to the ball player you are in a position to receive the ball and immediately attack the next line, disrupting the defensive organisation and creating an overload. No disrespect but it looks like you have swallowed the FA coaching manual Angle of support in itself is totally meaningless - just an FA buzz phrase Edited September 11, 2021 by scram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Playing successful forward passes is dependent on your team being in motion. It's that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggae Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Jesus. We have some amazing championship manager / coaching text book lads tonight. Bielsa started it all did he ? Play from back to draw teams forward. Today they put two on our 2 in middle. So not much to play into for iorfa and hutch. We switched it up about 5 mins before they went 2 up. Then just after half time we went even more direct. And more of a 3 5 2.. Bad day at the office. Simple as that. Gregors fuming at end and so was bannan. We go again next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsruleok Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said: It’s all about where you receive the ball in relation to the press. Therefore you try to be “between the opposites defensive lines”. Also at an angle of 45 degrees or so from the ball player and side on to the ball player you are in a position to receive the ball and immediately attack the next line, disrupting the defensive organisation and creating an overload. Problem is we play on grass not paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Flat Owl said: Suicide football unless you are in an elite league. Spot on. Our defenders just aren't good enough to play that way. Get rid of it lad! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_Trustful Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 We aren’t good enough. It worked once yesterday I think when Bannan managed to make space and surge forward. We mostly play it between Hutch, Iorfa and Byers and then eventually due to their pressing we end up either losing it or hoofing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Only good if you can buy the best keepers and defenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbelow Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said: Herein lies the problem. Some people ( not you @Ronio ) equate the system to always playing from goalkeeper to defender to defender. Those with this misconception also include professionals Gareth Southgate and the bloke at Brighton whose name escapes me. In a nutshell, “playing out from the back” was popularised by Bielsa and followers as a way of counteracting teams who “park the bus” by limiting space in their defensive third. Idea is to draw the opposites towards you this creating space for creative players. This can be done by playing through the press or bypassing it. You will often see Man City’s keeper chipping the ball over the high press into the space between the lines. If you closely watch Liverpool they are actually quite direct. They hit their front 3 as early as they can, once the opposites have been drawn out of position. If the opposites stay in their disciplined shape then your defence should carry the ball until creating an overload. Wow, you need to check your sources? Was Bielsa working in Austria between the war when some of the teams from that country kept the ball and dragged opponents around for fun, I also don't remember seeing Bielsa on the touchline when Hungary passed us to death in 6-3 and 7-1 wins. You also need to re-assess your language around the idea of pressing. Pressing is linked to cues and triggers, not something that is a continuous state, that would would be defending higher up the field with a higher starting position for your back line. You certainly have some balls suggesting that the current England manager and the manager of a premier league team are under a misconception about this topic. You cant chip a ball over a high press, or any press for that matter because if the press is initiated correctly on cue you simply don't have the time to get in position to chip the ball away as you will be under severe pressure: the City keeper is chipping the ball over a high line, there is a significant difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S72 Owl Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Nothing wrong with playing out from the back. We have players good enough to do this now. But it’s about making the key decision of when to do it. We should have known Plymouth were a high pressing team, so away from home that first 10-15 we should have gone a bit more direct. We had Sow and Johnson out wide who are both quite tall who we could have tried to hit with a more direct ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 I don’t like it to be honest!! we aren’t good enough to do and it gives the other team a chance to press and attack from our own possession. Needs scrapping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.. Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Guess Moore found an old Jos Luhukay tactics book at the back of his old desk drawer... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.. Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 If the opposition are pressing you so you can't pass it round at the back, as they did from the first 5 minutes, you need a mother fucking plan B, it's not rocket surgery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debram Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Don't think Moore will change his plan which is not working, he didn't impress last season and this one is getting worse before its hardly started, DC took a chance on a guy with no real success in league 1 or anywhere else, Moore may be a nice guy but he is not up to the task in hand, DC, act now and get in a proven manager to stabilise this club before it's too late. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, debram said: Don't think Moore will change his plan which is not working, he didn't impress last season When he was in hospital with covid and pneumonia you mean? you're right We should have stormed the league FFS 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debram Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: When he was in hospital with covid and pneumonia you mean? you're right We should have stormed the league FFS I just look at decisions, results and performances, if you're happy so far that's your opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Holmowl said: Playing out from the back needs comfortable confident options all across the back-line. That’s impossible with a right-footed LCB and a right-footed LB. I agree with this point. I’ve said it so many times and no disrespect to Palmer personally, but we NEED a left footer at LB. Following our initial clean sheets, the current back four served it’s purpose. Yesterday showed we need a left footer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Leeds U from sheff said: When bielsa arrived, Leeds had what we all considered mid table championship players. From match day 1 he had the players who previously usually booted the ball up the pitch... Playing this mad confident out from the back swagger... Even with 4 or more pressing them in our own box. It's about making the players confident in havingthe ball imo. Key to it also is piling players forward to capitalise when you do break through the high press. As soon as he could, much like Pep and Klopp, Bielsa changed his goalie to adapt better to his style of play. Recognising that whilst they were good goalkeepers, their ability to also play as a last defender was poor. Ironically it was BPF who he replaced because of this. For us to play the way DM wants requires a keeper confident with the ball at his feet and with accurate distribution. You don't often get that, as well as being a good shot stopper at Lg1 level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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