A case for 442?

[TheGreatNebber]

Someone mentioned playing 442 in the Berahino thread and I wonder what people's thoughts on this are? Gregory and Berahino up top with a couple of proper wingers as well as Bannan feeding them through the middle. 442 is out of fashion but I do sometimes worry that in a 433 it's not always clear whether the wide attackers should be looking to get in the box and score or primarily be there to feed the centre forward. Perhaps the risk is that you lose the midfield battle and I think it would work best with a fit Luongo alongside Bannan. 

 

I also think we're unusually blessed with lots of players who can comfortably play two or more positions (Palmer, Johnson, Paterson, Hutch, Brown) so switching formation during the game is a little easier if things aren't working out.   

[fpowl]

Think a wide fullbacks give us width and allows our attacking play to double up down the flanks which gets us more bodies going forward 

 

that extra man in midfield allows someone to drop back and shield the defence and break play up whilst the full backs regain position 

 

the wide towards then give us an extra outlet and option upfront 

 

our players suite more 4-3-3 5-4-1 or 3-5-2 which ever way you look at it 

 

I think we’re going for quality fluidity and numbers up top as we try abs break teams down and be on the front foot 

 

4-4-2 Is more disciplined and we’re going for the kills 

[TommyCraig]

Googled and found one straight away, lazy arse. 

[adamwestsleftear]

We just built a squad for a different system.

Rather we didn't go backwards.

 

[Blatter]

Not sure 4-4-2 is right for us. It requires a central midfield pairing that is both creative and physically powerful. Whilst ever Bannan is our midfield creator we don’t  have the physicality to prevent a central midfield two from being over run. 
 

I’m pretty certain Moore knows the way to get best out of what he has is to continue with 4-3-3  and  4-2-3-1as his favoured formations. It hasn’t proved prolific in goal scoring terms up to now but remember Moore is yet to have all his newly recruited squad available. He’s near to having that now and with a fully fit Windass and Berahino integrated into the team goals should start to flow.

 

4-4-2 would be a step back into the 1990’s imho. 

[bigash_swfc]

Yeah I wouldn't start asking for 4-4-2.

 

We're all aware, every fan must be, that Bannan isn't a 4-4-2 midfielder.

 

If there is any player, you want a system to suit, it'll be Bannan. Plus we get Lewis Wing and Dennis Aderinan in the team and can better control games.

 

4-4-2 is pretty much dead, if you look around, especially in the premier league.

[Tewkesbury]

We need the opposite winger to get on the back post in the 433.

 

There have been a number of crosses each game bouncing around the back post with nobody there. If we can get this, we'll be scoring for fun.

[TheGreatNebber]

 

7 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

We need the opposite winger to get on the back post in the 433.

 

There have been a number of crosses each game bouncing around the back post with nobody there. If we can get this, we'll be scoring for fun.

 

This is where hopefully things will pick up yes. Need the attacking wide players to be chipping in to bolster what we get from the one up top. Lots of competition for places so hopefully we'll start to see this, especially with Shodipo and then Windass coming back. 

[Shetland Owl]

Think we have moved away from this formation, Moore has signed players to play either 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1

[markg]

Can't play Bannan in the middle of a 4-4-2. Or byers or Wing for that matter.

[York_Owl]

As others have said in a 4-4-2 the two central midfielders get outnumbered when teams play a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3.

 

Good examples of this were when we played Hull and even Huddersfield and the pigs.

[meggoisgod]

yep 4 4 2 all day long for me

we'd walk this league

[Emerson Thome]

I'd like to think we have this in our armoury if Moore and his coaching team decide that the opposition would struggle against 4-4-2 rather than the usual 4-5-1.

 

You could have the normal back 4. Adeniran and Wing (or Luongo/Byers) in the middle. Bannan tucked in on the left (with Johnson to provide the width overlapping from LB). And then a whole host of players could play the RW role - Corbeanu, Sow, Windass, Paterson, etc.

 

With Gregory (or Kamberi) up top and Berahino as his strike partner. Sow/ Shodipo / Windass could also play that 2nd striker role too.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing us try this when we're chasing a game, as if 4-5-1 hasn't worked for 70 minutes, trying it some more, just with a couple of subs on, might not be the answer.

[Morepork]

7 hours ago, bigash_swfc said:

Yeah I wouldn't start asking for 4-4-2.

 

We're all aware, every fan must be, that Bannan isn't a 4-4-2 midfielder.

 

If there is any player, you want a system to suit, it'll be Bannan. Plus we get Lewis Wing and Dennis Aderinan in the team and can better control games.

 

4-4-2 is pretty much dead, if you look around, especially in the premier league.

 

100% right, Bannan should be nowhere near a 4-4-2. I do feel it should have a place in our armory though. I mean, if its good enough for Simeone at Atletico Madrid its good enough for us.....ok, maybe Sean Dyche's Burnley are a better example. 

 

My point is, it's still effective and whilst it wouldn't be how I'd set up with our players it could be called on when required.

 

[bigash_swfc]

1 hour ago, Morepork said:

 

100% right, Bannan should be nowhere near a 4-4-2. I do feel it should have a place in our armory though. I mean, if its good enough for Simeone at Atletico Madrid its good enough for us.....ok, maybe Sean Dyche's Burnley are a better example. 

 

My point is, it's still effective and whilst it wouldn't be how I'd set up with our players it could be called on when required.

 

Agree but it could boil down to Moore being tactically sound, which by all WBA fan accounts, it might not be that easy.

 

Carlos did this successfully, I remember quite often he'd take off Lopez and bring on Hooper or Joao. 

 

He wouldn't wait till the 80th min to make this change either, it would be done at HT and we'd come out for 2nd half a different team.

 

 

 

 

[Morepork]

1 hour ago, bigash_swfc said:

 

Agree but it could boil down to Moore being tactically sound, which by all WBA fan accounts, it might not be that easy.

 

Carlos did this successfully, I remember quite often he'd take off Lopez and bring on Hooper or Joao. 

 

He wouldn't wait till the 80th min to make this change either, it would be done at HT and we'd come out for 2nd half a different team.

 

Its fair to say the real outstanding question mark around Moore is tactical, certainly for me. Everything else about him I can buy into easily. Can he think on his feet though and adapt mid game? Can he pull a formational change out the bag to catch an opponent out? In essence, does he have enough tactical strings to his bow? We'll see over the coming months, I hope so. We definitely have options in the squad he's assembled so its promising. I feel this is a league where we are going to be forced into creative adaptation to break teams down as opponents sit back and hope to stay in the game and snatch something as Morecambe did.

 

In terms of the 4-4-2 I think the appeal comes from the potential forward partnerships, especially with the addition of Berahino. To enable us to get a second striker on or even to just mix it up every once in a while to keep the opposition guessing would be a bonus.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Morepork

[bigash_swfc]

20 minutes ago, Morepork said:

 

Its fair to say the real outstanding question mark around Moore is tactical, certainly for me. Everything else about him I can buy into easily. Can he think on his feet though and adapt mid game? Can he pull a formational change out the bag to catch an opponent out? In essence, does he have enough tactical strings to his bow? We'll see over the coming months, I hope so. We definitely have options in the squad he's assembled so its promising. I feel this is a league where we are going to be forced into creative adaptation to break teams down as opponents sit back and hope to stay in the game and snatch something as Morecambe did.

 

In terms of the 4-4-2 I think the appeal comes from the potential forward partnerships, especially with the addition of Berahino. To enable us to get a second striker on or even to just mix it up every once in a while to keep the opposition guessing would be a bonus.

 

It's a fascinating game.

 

I'll always remember being so invested in the 2005 Champions League final.

 

Liverpool 3 nil down at HT and young me on the edge of my seat wanting Cisse off the bench. Instead, Rafa Benitez brings on a defensive midfielder in Didi Hamann. I was so confused, but it completely shut AC Milan down, stopping Kaka from running riot.

 

The rest is history, will never understand why Benitez stayed at Newcastle so long.

[Billy Hunt]

I think we’re much more suited to moving to a 3-5-2 than a 4-4-2 if we wanted to play two strikers. I think we’d struggle for an effective midfield pairing without Luongo being one of them and we definitely can’t be making plans around him.

 

Alternatively we play that 1-3-6 that’s been floating around create all the strike partnerships.

[Holmowl]

I’ve never understood the “can’t play Bannan with a 442” cliche. 
 

The suggestion that he’s not strong enough would make sense if it was 1991, but in 2021 bone-crunching CMs are hens teeth.

 

Bannan is the hardest working CM you’ll ever see. His defensive work and overall workrate are outstanding.

 

Back to the OP’s question: Is it time for 442? No. We are second with WWWDL. I’d change very little indeed. However, there’s no question that scoring goals looks to be our Achilles Heal. If that continues, and if our wins become draws, then yes certainly I’d like to see a more expansive set-up.

[Southie_Owl]

14 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

We need the opposite winger to get on the back post in the 433.

 

There have been a number of crosses each game bouncing around the back post with nobody there. If we can get this, we'll be scoring for fun.

Yes so far we’ve mostly been playing with a left back and a midfielder in the front line with one striker up top.  Although it helps us be decent defensively it’s not going to score a lot of goals. Hopefully now we have 6 forwards available to start we will see a more attacking line up.

 

I compare it to if Liverpool had forwards missing and had to play Robertson and Keira up front with Firmino.  Sure they would probably still be good enough to beat the likes of Palace and Burnley but when their forwards become available they won’t exactly say “well we’ve won games in their absence so we’ll keep the forwards on the bench for now”.  It’s time to go from 3rd gear to top gear with this squad of players IMO