Shaw & Urhogide

[Tewkesbury]

How much did Mike Trusson have to do with this?

 

With hindsight, it seems like a bad move, but we don't know what was going on at the time, seemed like a good move back then.

[pazowl55]

7 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Probably slashed the wage bill in half, at least. Instead of signing players in the championship on £10-15k pw we’re signing £3-5k a week players 

Do you honestly believe some of them players we have signed are only on 3-5k. And the players that have signed new deals here won't be only something like 10-15k. because I do.

[fudge27]

7 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Probably slashed the wage bill in half, at least. Instead of signing players in the championship on £10-15k pw we’re signing £3-5k a week players 

Is it still 2002 there? 

[room0035]

20 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Were the low contract offers made to these two perhaps not an indication that they weren’t  as good as we potentially thought anyway? I mean, it’s not like we saw loads of Shaw in his time here, same with Urhoghide.

They had a few decent appearances but nothing groundbreaking, but did that paint enough of a picture. For all we know they could have been crap in training and Moore saw no reason to give them any higher than what they were offered.

 

is it just because they were young and through the academy that they’re automatically given the potential label? 

No we as a club under DC do not value youth players, DC is short sighted and sees few hundred grand as good business when a season or two at league one of championship level would have seen them worth 10 times that figure.

 

Until we as a club stop offering pittance to youth players and giving out £20k a week + contracts to 30 something's we will not move forward as a club and every season will be close to breaking the P&S rules.

[FreshOwl]

12 hours ago, pazowl55 said:

Do you honestly believe some of them players we have signed are only on 3-5k. And the players that have signed new deals here won't be only something like 10-15k. because I do.

I’d imagine Gibson, shodipo, kamberi, brown, sow, adeniran, corbaneau are all on relatively low wages compared to who they’ve replaced. 3 of them have come from U23 sides, kamberi was plucked on loan from the Swiss super league, and the others barely featured for low end championship clubs. If any exceed 8-10k I’d be shocked 

[1867Heaven]

2 hours ago, room0035 said:

No we as a club under DC do not value youth players, DC is short sighted and sees few hundred grand as good business when a season or two at league one of championship level would have seen them worth 10 times that figure.

 

Until we as a club stop offering pittance to youth players and giving out £20k a week + contracts to 30 something's we will not move forward as a club and every season will be close to breaking the P&S rules.

Would you really be happy with the likes of Hirst sat on 15k a week? And we’d of given it him then how much would the rest ask for, clubs lose young players all the time, we’ve just never had them coming through so it’s all a bit new to us.

[pazowl55]

8 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

I’d imagine Gibson, shodipo, kamberi, brown, sow, adeniran, corbaneau are all on relatively low wages compared to who they’ve replaced. 3 of them have come from U23 sides, kamberi was plucked on loan from the Swiss super league, and the others barely featured for low end championship clubs. If any exceed 8-10k I’d be shocked 

I think you will be surprised how much even fairly rubbish footballers earn nowadays. Also all the contract renewals we have done will all exceed the 8-10k mark.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

8 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

I’d imagine Gibson, shodipo, kamberi, brown, sow, adeniran, corbaneau are all on relatively low wages compared to who they’ve replaced. 3 of them have come from U23 sides, kamberi was plucked on loan from the Swiss super league, and the others barely featured for low end championship clubs. If any exceed 8-10k I’d be shocked 

I think you’re right about those figures but then the others we’ve signed will probably be on more, and we’ve also lost £8m of revenue from TV rights and the matchday revenue is going to be down 15% given ticket prices have been reduced.

 

So all in all, we’re still probably losing as much money as last season.

 

I don’t have a problem with that as it’s the nature of football below PL level but it does suggest something has changed at DC’s side as last season we looked broke

[SallyCinnamon]

23 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I think you’re right about those figures but then the others we’ve signed will probably be on more, and we’ve also lost £8m of revenue from TV rights and the matchday revenue is going to be down 15% given ticket prices have been reduced.

 

So all in all, we’re still probably losing as much money as last season.

 

I don’t have a problem with that as it’s the nature of football below PL level but it does suggest something has changed at DC’s side as last season we looked broke

 

Those football finance experts claimed the cash to pay the players wages back end of June came elsewhere. God knows if true or not. 

 

But to sign 14 new players (good ones for this level) in the past couple of months after the state of affairs in May/June time is pretty crazy. Even though we have some high wages of the bill. 

[Big Jack]

12 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Those football finance experts claimed the cash to pay the players wages back end of June came elsewhere. God knows if true or not. 

 

But to sign 14 new players (good ones for this level) in the past couple of months after the state of affairs in May/June time is pretty crazy. Even though we have some high wages of the bill. 

Obviously got someone else chipping in but one of the mystery of this reign , where fiances come from!

[room0035]

9 hours ago, 1867Heaven said:

Would you really be happy with the likes of Hirst sat on 15k a week? And we’d of given it him then how much would the rest ask for, clubs lose young players all the time, we’ve just never had them coming through so it’s all a bit new to us.

Hirst didn't ask for £15k where do you get this rubbish from.

 

Liam Shaw asked for £3k for a squad player at a championship team that could go on to be worth millions that's good business. Paying £27,000 for a 32 year old midfielder with little to no sell on value in a year to 18 months not very good business.

[room0035]

Many youth players don't play in the top flight but they do play league football man Utd in the 90's had loads of youth players never make the grade but they were sold in to lower league clubs often with sell on clause.

 

Barnsley sold Stones to Everton for £3m the made £7.5m when he moved to man city. She'd United sold many players and had sell on clause attached Maguire just one example.

 

The big difference with all of these players to our youth players was they were all in contract for at least 12 months and at no point in their development were these players allowed to get within 6 months of the end of their deals.

 

We on the other hand leave it till Jan, at the earliest as why not. None of these players will ever make it as many on here said they left us so they must be rubbish. We had good development to under 18 then because the players are not first team ready, we release them because they are all not good enough - or maybe could it be out development of raw talented 18 year olds in first players is not good enough.

 

Barnsley, Doncaster, Sheff Utd, Rotherham, Chesterfield all do it maybe our youngsters are just not good enough or maybe it's the people coaching who are the problem, when ever other local team produced players and we don't.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

6 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Many youth players don't play in the top flight but they do play league football man Utd in the 90's had loads of youth players never make the grade but they were sold in to lower league clubs often with sell on clause.

 

Barnsley sold Stones to Everton for £3m the made £7.5m when he moved to man city. She'd United sold many players and had sell on clause attached Maguire just one example.

 

The big difference with all of these players to our youth players was they were all in contract for at least 12 months and at no point in their development were these players allowed to get within 6 months of the end of their deals.

 

We on the other hand leave it till Jan, at the earliest as why not. None of these players will ever make it as many on here said they left us so they must be rubbish. We had good development to under 18 then because the players are not first team ready, we release them because they are all not good enough - or maybe could it be out development of raw talented 18 year olds in first players is not good enough.

 

Barnsley, Doncaster, Sheff Utd, Rotherham, Chesterfield all do it maybe our youngsters are just not good enough or maybe it's the people coaching who are the problem, when ever other local team produced players and we don't.

The big difference with all of our players is that these have gone on to be world class players playing for England and at the top end of the Premier League and Champions League.

 

We’ve not produced any players at that level unless we include Vardy and it’s hard for us to take any credit for that as he did it all by himself.

 

Not a single one of our academy graduates has gone on to be any better than a lower half Championship player (Palmer), the rest have all fallen away and only a few have made it at professional level. The likes of Hirst, Shaw and Urgohide have shown nothing to suggest they were worth an excess of money being thrown at them, although I think we should have tried harder to keep them and probably didn’t make the right offers at the right times. But they’ve done nothing so far to make us regret them leaving.

[1867Heaven]

9 hours ago, room0035 said:

Hirst didn't ask for £15k where do you get this rubbish from.

 

Liam Shaw asked for £3k for a squad player at a championship team that could go on to be worth millions that's good business. Paying £27,000 for a 32 year old midfielder with little to no sell on value in a year to 18 months not very good business.

Where do you get 3k from? Face it, clubs all over the world lose their young players...even the Man City’s and Barcelona’s.....as of yet we haven’t had a single one suggest DC was wrong not bowing to their wage demands...these are the facts...15k??? Here-say...3k???? Here-say.......what I’ve just said...completely true. 

[scram]

10 hours ago, room0035 said:

Many youth players don't play in the top flight but they do play league football man Utd in the 90's had loads of youth players never make the grade but they were sold in to lower league clubs often with sell on clause.

 

Barnsley sold Stones to Everton for £3m the made £7.5m when he moved to man city. She'd United sold many players and had sell on clause attached Maguire just one example.

 

The big difference with all of these players to our youth players was they were all in contract for at least 12 months and at no point in their development were these players allowed to get within 6 months of the end of their deals.

 

We on the other hand leave it till Jan, at the earliest as why not. None of these players will ever make it as many on here said they left us so they must be rubbish. We had good development to under 18 then because the players are not first team ready, we release them because they are all not good enough - or maybe could it be out development of raw talented 18 year olds in first players is not good enough.

 

Barnsley, Doncaster, Sheff Utd, Rotherham, Chesterfield all do it maybe our youngsters are just not good enough or maybe it's the people coaching who are the problem, when ever other local team produced players and we don't.

 

 

All the clubs you mention will have let LOADS of youth players get to the end of their contracts without discussing or even intending renewal

 

Every club does

[Mick70]

1 hour ago, 1867Heaven said:

Where do you get 3k from? Face it, clubs all over the world lose their young players...even the Man City’s and Barcelona’s.....as of yet we haven’t had a single one suggest DC was wrong not bowing to their wage demands...these are the facts...15k??? Here-say...3k???? Here-say.......what I’ve just said...completely true. 

Spoke to shaws dad he said he didn’t ask for the world but wot they did offer him after relegation clause he wouldn’t have been on much more than he was on original contract....said stuffing man didn’t have much time for academy at all .his dad also said one prem club had shown interest but wanted to loan him straight out to league one anyway .when I spoke to him it was before it became public he’d signed pre contract with Celtic also said urighide was on his way that was dec/jan time 

[No Uniform]

On 04/09/2021 at 20:35, Tewkesbury said:

How much did Mike Trusson have to do with this?

 

With hindsight, it seems like a bad move, but we don't know what was going on at the time, seemed like a good move back then.

“Fair play to Celtic and the recruitment department I know well. They identified the pair and did their homework, talking not only to me but Pulis and others. Now it will be interesting to see what the policy is."  https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-talent-spotter-turned-wednesday-24453026

[1867Heaven]

2 hours ago, Mick70 said:

Spoke to shaws dad he said he didn’t ask for the world but wot they did offer him after relegation clause he wouldn’t have been on much more than he was on original contract....said stuffing man didn’t have much time for academy at all .his dad also said one prem club had shown interest but wanted to loan him straight out to league one anyway .when I spoke to him it was before it became public he’d signed pre contract with Celtic also said urighide was on his way that was dec/jan time 

Well I spoke to his mum and she said I was being rude asking about her sons ongoing contract negotiations....she also wondered how I thought she’d know anything about Ugohide’s ongoing contract negotiations that lasted until the summer.....sounds like he had 3 choices and he chose the one that had his interests furthest from their mind, shame really...bet his agent got a decent payday out of it though, with him going “abroad” 

[BIG D]

Well played Mike Trusson, going great so far

[room0035]

15 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

The big difference with all of our players is that these have gone on to be world class players playing for England and at the top end of the Premier League and Champions League.

 

We’ve not produced any players at that level unless we include Vardy and it’s hard for us to take any credit for that as he did it all by himself.

 

Not a single one of our academy graduates has gone on to be any better than a lower half Championship player (Palmer), the rest have all fallen away and only a few have made it at professional level. The likes of Hirst, Shaw and Urgohide have shown nothing to suggest they were worth an excess of money being thrown at them, although I think we should have tried harder to keep them and probably didn’t make the right offers at the right times. But they’ve done nothing so far to make us regret them leaving.

Which is exactly my point we are failing the players by not developing good young players at 18 into first team players and higher.