“Relegation Candidates”

[Manwë]

As a long term suffering reader of the Guardian (cancelled last year), I'm now considering selling the house and putting it all on Wednesday to go straight back up.

 

I'd more believe the Viz prediction or news than anything in the G.  It's become a student politics rag since Rusbridger stepped down.

[modboy]

4 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

I just realised I missed Myers out from our squad (age 25 - Championship - 57 apps). 11 of our squad have played more Championship games than he has. If Ipswich had signed him he'd be their 4th most experienced player at that level.

 

Sod it, I've just convinced myself to lump on the remaining £20 in my betting account on HMS Pîss the League.

 

 

Who?

[morganowl]

3 hours ago, Utah Owl said:

Ye gods!

 

For the umpteenth bleeding time, where is this 20 goal a season striker coming from?

20 goal a season strikers cost money, they don't go for free and they don't go on loan. It may have escaped your (and others on here) attention but we are embargoed and can only sign freebies or loanees.

 

That means no recognised 20 goal a season striker, it's going to have to be a punt on unearthing a hidden gem or playing in a way that goals come from across the entire team. Alternatively the strategy has to be stabilise this season and next season, hopefully embargo free we can get the 20 goal man.

Aint we or wernt we linked with cosgrove? Might not score 20 in championship but league 1 why not?. Same as a striker might hit 20-30 in league 1/2 yet go up to championship and cant do anything. Loads of examples over the years. 

[Mollymae's Dad]

U really expect me to sign up to the newspaper after reading that absolute nonsense 

[thewookieisdown]

3 hours ago, TommyCraig said:

And yet they are usually pretty accurate aren't they, bookies. Lots of footy punters bet over all leagues too not just their own team. 

3rd faves means a playoff place finish and I don't think we'll be far off that. 

I think the Guardian reporter was well off with this piece, don't need you to educate me on betting practices thank you. 

Yes, but as he said odds aren't a consequence of a bookie taking a view; they are a function of punters' decisions.

 

The third divisions is a lightly traded market, so the book incorporates fewer decisions; it's less likely to be an accurate predictor.

 

 

[Dooogs]

1 hour ago, Manwë said:

 

 

I'd more believe the Viz prediction or news than anything in the G.  It's become a student politics rag since Rusbridger stepped down.

Interesting - I don't necessarily disagree with you (and I ditched the hard copy about a decade ago) - what do you think has changed since Viner took over from Rusbridger? Not trolling, would be interested to hear your perspective.

[Manwë]

57 minutes ago, Dooogs said:

Interesting - I don't necessarily disagree with you (and I ditched the hard copy about a decade ago) - what do you think has changed since Viner took over from Rusbridger? Not trolling, would be interested to hear your perspective.

I could go on and on, really, but I'll try and keep it short.  For a start, I read the Guardian because I believed genuinely at the time that it was the closest thing to scrutiny of Govt (any colour) in the media, except for perhaps the Mirror ("A Tory ate my cat").  I'm not party political, I take them as I see them on current policy and nothing else.  

 

For me it started when the G showed absolute hypocrisy, when for years they'd been hammering Jeremy Hunt for his handling of the NHS (rightly so), for his attempts at further privatisation.   Then at the time of the EU referendum, they regurgitated an article from Hunt (from the Observer) saying to back Remain to save the NHS.  Scrutiny at that point ended because Hunt's views were in line with the views of the Guardian.  Here was a Govt minister and his words about saving the NHS were taken as absolute gospel.  The only scrutiny of Hunt, which was more in line with the Guardian pre-2015, was from Vote Leave.  Couldn't make this poo up.

 

Anyway, I persevered with the G.  During UK-EU negotiations, banks and the City needed protecting from Brexit, this is from a paper that initially believed heavily in the Occupy movement.  Every job that left the City was more important than any thousand of jobs that had left northern England in the pre-Brexit years.   Who was it that famously said a job in the City was worth many more up north?  

 

Article after article about the working class from the likes of Toynbee, yet should the working class enjoy a meal out at a reasonable price, that place is to be avoided in case you might bump into the said working classes.   When my colleague (also a G online reader) came to work and said "Yes!, Wetherspoons is in trouble, I hope they go under", I replied and asked about the tens of thousands of staff that work there.  A dismissive response. 

 

There's a few good journalists left, Harris for instance.  But I think he's now wasted there and probably belongs at somewhere like the New Statesman.

 

Eventually, I likened the current Guardian to what Twitter would be if Twitter became a subscription service.  Hyperbole, emotive language and the like.  Angry people getting angry news, spreading angry news among themselves, getting more angry about the news.  I just had to walk away.  Maybe I'm getting less tolerant myself as I get older, but I just see an ever narrowing viewpoint on the Guardian now, not the broader view I would prefer.

[pazowl55]

7 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

To illustrate what I'm saying about expectations - let's look at the squads of Ipswich (7/1) and Sunderland (7/1), the only two teams rated ahead of us (8/1) with the bookies for the title and the leagues where each player in the squad has played the majority of their career. Players in bold have spent a reasonable amount of their career as a first choice player in a Championship team or equivalent/higher league.

 

SWFC

GK - Wildsmith (age 25 - Championship - 64 apps)

GK - Peacock-Farrell (24 - Championship - 40 apps)

DF - Palmer (age 29 - Championship - 242 apps)

DF - Hunt (age 30 - Championship - 246 apps)

DF - Hutchinson (31 - Championship - 174 apps)

DF - Iorfa (age 26 - Championship - 164 apps)

DF - Dunkley (age 29 - Conference - 92 apps [+ 83 in League One])

DF - Brown (age 22 - Championship - 28 apps)

MF - Bannan (age 31 - Championship - 291 apps [+ 86 in Prem])

MF - Luongo (age 28 - Championship - 190 apps)

MF - Wing (age 26 - Championship - 100 apps)

MF - Adeniran (age 22 - Championship - 22 apps)

MF - Hunt (age 21 - Championship - 9 apps)

MF - Marvin Johnson* (age 30 - Conference - 108 apps/Championship - 107 apps) *assuming he signs

AM - Shodipo (age 24 - League One - 45 apps)

AM - Dele-Bashiru (age 20 - Championship - 8 apps)

AM - Green (age 23 - Championship - 68 apps)

AM - Corbeanu (age 19 - Prem U23)

FW - Adedoyin (age 20 - Prem U23)

FW - Kamberi (age 26 - Scottish Prem - 84 apps)

FW - Windass (age 27 - Championship - 104 apps)

FW - Paterson (age 25 - Championship - 111 apps/Scottish Prem 108 apps)

 

Ipswich Town

GK - Holy (age 29 - League One - 159 apps)

GK - Hladky (age 30 - Czech Prem - 73 apps)

DF - Woolfenden (age 22 - League One - 56 apps)

DF - Donacien (age 27 - League Two - 142 apps)

DF - Ndaba (age 21 - Scottish Championship - 13 apps)

DF - Penney (age 23 - Championship - 28 apps)

DF - Edmundson (age 23 - League Two - 71 apps)

DF - Kenlock (age 24 - Championship - 55 apps)

DF - Nsiala (age 29 - League One - 107 apps)

DF - Vincent-Young (age 25 - League Two - 96 apps)

MF - Nolan (age 29 - Conference - 159 apps / League One - 108 apps)

MF - Downes (age 22 - League One - 53 apps)

MF - El Mizouni (age 20 - League Two - 21 apps)

MF - Dobra (age 20 - League One - 20 apps)

MF - Burns (age 26 - League One - 181 apps)

MF - Evans (age 27 - Championship - 120 apps / League One - 102 apps)

MF - Fraser (age 26 - League One - 116 apps)

MF - Harper (age 21 - Championship - 44 apps)

FW - Bonne (age 25 - Conference - 90 apps / Champ - 67 apps / L1 - 70 apps)

FW - Chaplin (age 24 - Conference - 78 apps / Championship - 78 apps)

FW - Pigott (age 27 - League One - 167 apps)

FW - Jackson (age 27 - League Two - 64 apps / League One - 57 apps)

FW - Norwood (age 30 - Conference - 307 apps)

 

Sunderland

GK - Burge (age 28 - League One - 172 apps)

GK - Patterson (age 21 - Prem U23 D2)

DF - Flanagan (age 29 - League One - 127 apps)

DF - Wright (age 29 - League One - 141 apps / Championship - 128 apps)

DF - Willis (age 26 - League One - 176 apps)

DF - Doyle (age 17 - Prem U23 - 12 apps)

DF - Xhemajli (age 23 - Swiss Super League - 40 apps)

DF - Hume (age 22 - League One - 62 apps)

DF - Younger (age 21 - League of Ireland - 2 apps)

MF - Evans (age 31 - Championship - 245 apps)

MF - Embleton (age 22 - League One - 30 apps)

MF - Gooch (age 25 - League One - 127 apps)

MF - O'Nien (age 26 - League One - 110 apps / League Two - 101 apps)

MF - Winchester (age 28 - League Two - 162 apps / League One - 140 apps)

MF - Pritchard (age 28 - Championship - 125 apps [& 48 Prem])

MF - Diamond (age 21 - Conference - 27 apps)

MF - Hawkes (age 22 - Conference - 59 apps)

MF - McGeady (age 35 - Scottish Prem - 185 apps / Championship - 92 apps)

FW - O'Brien (age 27 - League One - 127 apps / Championship - 92 apps)

FW - Stewart (age 25 - Scottish Prem - 73 apps)

FW - Grigg (age 30 - League One - 315 apps)

 

Admittedly you would rather have a team of promising young players on the way up than ageing ones on the way down, but none of our squad are older than 31, save for Hutchinson who turned 32 today. Of Sunderland's 6 players with similar experience, McGeady is 35 and Pritchard is a crock. Their defence is very young and inexperienced. Ipswich have one player that has played 100 Championship games.

What I have been saying. Why we are scared of anyone in this division with the team and manager we have got is beyond me.

[SiJ]

4 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

Just given it a listen. Some interesting takes (I agree on Sam Vokes being way over-hyped) but I do think they are way off with us. They rate Rotherham as favourites 'decent Championship team last season' neglecting that they got 5 points less than us. That's even with us suffering Tony blōōdy Pulis for 10 games. 

 

They cite Wing and Peacock-Farrell as players on the way down but mention Matt Penney as one of the good signings that Ipswich have made. They rave about Ipswich signing a stand-out keeper in League One, but slate Peacock-Farrell for a few dodgy games for Leeds as a 20-year old in the Championship. Also I think people on the outside who didn't watch us regularly will think we'll miss Lees, Harris, Rhodes, Borner et al more than we actually will. 

 

Also, I think a few of the pundits are putting too much into the 'off-field turmoil'/'bad chairman' angle. It is true. But 70% of the clubs in the Football League have dodgy Chairmen and off-field turmoil. As long as he can pay the bills and steps back and lets Darren Moore run the football we'll be fine. It's not like Sunderland, Ipswich, et al have brilliant Chairman and are stable well-run teams. Almost every team chasing promotion in the league seems to have a new(ish) manager. The teams that are stable and well run like Lincoln are trying to compete with a fraction of our budget.

I thought their assessment was a little bit off tbh.

 

Perhaps it is just easier to assume we will be a flop given our recent history? 

 

As you say, I'm not sure how you can laud Rotherham, where Wing was a key player last season, but then slate him when he moves to us.

 

Tbf, I've seen the two hosts on Sky's coverage of the EFL over the last few years and never been exactly blown away by their insights. 

 

We will see though. It's very much an unknown so.

[Utah Owl]

2 hours ago, morganowl said:

Aint we or wernt we linked with cosgrove? Might not score 20 in championship but league 1 why not?. Same as a striker might hit 20-30 in league 1/2 yet go up to championship and cant do anything. Loads of examples over the years. 

So in other words not a proven 20 goal a season striker. 

 

That's called taking a punt!

 

 

[SiJ]

3 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

So in other words not a proven 20 goal a season striker. 

 

That's called taking a punt!

 

 

Chill out.

 

It might be a case of hoping we can spread the goals around a bit.

 

No need to get so uppity.

 

[madfan]

Guardian, never let the facts spoil a good story , and if you hav'nt got one. make one up. Dross.

[Utah Owl]

8 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Chill out.

 

It might be a case of hoping we can spread the goals around a bit.

 

No need to get so uppity.

 

I'm  not uppity, but saying we must sign a 20 goal a season guy when we can't is crazy. Equally suggesting someone like Cosgrove is a 20 goal a season man is also crazy. His best season was 18/19 when he got 17 goals for Aberdeen, other than that one season he hasn't come close. Touting him as a proven 20 goal a season striker is just plain daft.

 

Could he be the right man? Possibly, but there's only one way to find out and that is to take a punt on him. 

 

Given our situation that's all we can do, take a chance on someone and hope that we get lucky.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Utah Owl

[Bouncing Owl]

No need to get sensitive about what the papers or people say about Wednesday. I had us down for relegation before a ball was kicked last season and still thought we would when we got 6 points back.

 

But, I really do feel that we are turning the corner here. Moore has done a great job bringing in the players he has and another 3 will follow. It will take time to gel and that front 3 will take some time to function but we should be looking upwards this season rather than downwards. We really should be good enough for the top 6 and thats where I expect us to be. 

[owlinexile]

2 hours ago, Manwë said:

I could go on and on, really, but I'll try and keep it short.  For a start, I read the Guardian because I believed genuinely at the time that it was the closest thing to scrutiny of Govt (any colour) in the media, except for perhaps the Mirror ("A Tory ate my cat").  I'm not party political, I take them as I see them on current policy and nothing else.  

 

For me it started when the G showed absolute hypocrisy, when for years they'd been hammering Jeremy Hunt for his handling of the NHS (rightly so), for his attempts at further privatisation.   Then at the time of the EU referendum, they regurgitated an article from Hunt (from the Observer) saying to back Remain to save the NHS.  Scrutiny at that point ended because Hunt's views were in line with the views of the Guardian.  Here was a Govt minister and his words about saving the NHS were taken as absolute gospel.  The only scrutiny of Hunt, which was more in line with the Guardian pre-2015, was from Vote Leave.  Couldn't make this poo up.

 

Anyway, I persevered with the G.  During UK-EU negotiations, banks and the City needed protecting from Brexit, this is from a paper that initially believed heavily in the Occupy movement.  Every job that left the City was more important than any thousand of jobs that had left northern England in the pre-Brexit years.   Who was it that famously said a job in the City was worth many more up north?  

 

Article after article about the working class from the likes of Toynbee, yet should the working class enjoy a meal out at a reasonable price, that place is to be avoided in case you might bump into the said working classes.   When my colleague (also a G online reader) came to work and said "Yes!, Wetherspoons is in trouble, I hope they go under", I replied and asked about the tens of thousands of staff that work there.  A dismissive response. 

 

There's a few good journalists left, Harris for instance.  But I think he's now wasted there and probably belongs at somewhere like the New Statesman.

 

Eventually, I likened the current Guardian to what Twitter would be if Twitter became a subscription service.  Hyperbole, emotive language and the like.  Angry people getting angry news, spreading angry news among themselves, getting more angry about the news.  I just had to walk away.  Maybe I'm getting less tolerant myself as I get older, but I just see an ever narrowing viewpoint on the Guardian now, not the broader view I would prefer.

 

The Guardian these days is just another part of the circuit for gobshite student politicians like Ash Sarker and 'Squealer' Jones to give their terrible controversialist 'hot takes' on the days events to try and get as many people all riled up as possible.

 

It is the whole industry now.  It of course has its right-wing equivalents and then they all get together on Jeremy Vine to be competitively vile and off-putting. Both sides win.