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Lionel Messi


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1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

I think one of the things that always gets ignored when comparing Ronaldo and Messi to the likes of Pele and Maradona is just how much better the "average" defender is these days.

 

Over the last 20/30 years, the culture has moved from footballers being footballers to footballers being top athletes who have teams of sports scientists, physiotherapists and dietitians working for them. 

 

I have no idea how Pele and Maradona would do in the modern game against a modern centre back, but with the progress in conditioning, tactical assessment/scouting and all the test of it, they wouldn't do as well. I may be wrong, and I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but the fact that Messi has managed to achieve what he's achieved with all that in mind... he really is the greatest of all time.

 

But maybe I'm just biased because it's all I really know.


No you’re right. But also worth taking into account the pitches Messi and Ronaldo have played on in comparison to Maradona and Pele.

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2 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

I think one of the things that always gets ignored when comparing Ronaldo and Messi to the likes of Pele and Maradona is just how much better the "average" defender is these days.

 

Over the last 20/30 years, the culture has moved from footballers being footballers to footballers being top athletes who have teams of sports scientists, physiotherapists and dietitians working for them. 

 

I have no idea how Pele and Maradona would do in the modern game against a modern centre back, but with the progress in conditioning, tactical assessment/scouting and all the test of it, they wouldn't do as well. I may be wrong, and I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but the fact that Messi has managed to achieve what he's achieved with all that in mind... he really is the greatest of all time.

 

But maybe I'm just biased because it's all I really know.


My counter to that would be that although modern centre backs are definitely fitter and more conditioned, they can’t get tight to attackers and players like Messi are given a lot more freedom and license because any little contact is a foul these days.
 

Not to mention playing on state of the art pitches and kicking state of the art footballs. I think it was Mexico 86 when the first polyurethane football was used - before that water still used to seep into the balls making them heavier and less durable.

 

So playing on mud baths, getting the sh*t kicked out of them with no help from referees, and they still produced magic. Don’t forget the legacy of the Italian league in the 80s, the best in the world with the meanest defences. 
 

I’ve no doubt that with proper sports science and nutrition, playing in the same conditions as modern players, that Maradona would be something alien like

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On 14/07/2021 at 08:36, StudentOwl said:

I think one of the things that always gets ignored when comparing Ronaldo and Messi to the likes of Pele and Maradona is just how much better the "average" defender is these days.

 

Over the last 20/30 years, the culture has moved from footballers being footballers to footballers being top athletes who have teams of sports scientists, physiotherapists and dietitians working for them. 

 

I have no idea how Pele and Maradona would do in the modern game against a modern centre back, but with the progress in conditioning, tactical assessment/scouting and all the test of it, they wouldn't do as well. I may be wrong, and I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but the fact that Messi has managed to achieve what he's achieved with all that in mind... he really is the greatest of all time.

 

But maybe I'm just biased because it's all I really know.

But Pele etc would be more conditioned too, pitches worse then, a foul that would get you sent off now was commonplace etc. Too many variables to compare. 
If Messi went back in time he might not be able to cope with the game back then.

Daft trying to compare eras really.

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3 minutes ago, Doctor Duran said:

Only problem with Messi is that he has took the easy life with Barca all his career.  

 

I wish he'd have played in a couple of different leagues - Seria A / Bundeslige or Prem and proved himself (which he would).

Brilliant player and undoubted talent.

Couldn't you level that at Xavi and Iniesta too? 

 

Tbf, I'm not sure Ronaldo going here, there and everywhere was about proving himself in different countries.

 

Left Sporting to go to Man U. Real was always his stated dream move. Not sure why he went to Juve, though I'd think that was in part motivated by the fact it is a good league to ply your trade in when the wrong side of 30.

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10 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Couldn't you level that at Xavi and Iniesta too? 

 

Tbf, I'm not sure Ronaldo going here, there and everywhere was about proving himself in different countries.

 

Left Sporting to go to Man U. Real was always his stated dream move. Not sure why he went to Juve, though I'd think that was in part motivated by the fact it is a good league to ply your trade in when the wrong side of 30.


Yeah the game is slower and more tactical in Italy, though even that has improved the last couple years. 
 

It would have been nice to see Messi move to another country purely from an entertainment perspective.

 

He has been playing on the same pitch, which he’ll know back to front, and the same away grounds against more or less the same opposition his whole career. That must bring some advantages. 

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17 minutes ago, Doctor Duran said:

Only problem with Messi is that he has took the easy life with Barca all his career.  

 

I wish he'd have played in a couple of different leagues - Seria A / Bundeslige or Prem and proved himself (which he would).

Brilliant player and undoubted talent.

Surely that’s the point of European competition though, seeing how clubs and players cope against teams from different nations if they are better than everyone in their own league 

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Guest OwlPastie
On 14/07/2021 at 19:43, punkskaphil said:

Staying at Barca on reduced wages.

 

Another player we've missed out on. FFS Chansiri.

 

Dodgey loop hole, they've effectively given him a pay rise. 5 year deal but can leave after 2 with Barca still paying for another 3 years as an Ambassador. 

 

Just a way of spreading the cost.

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I think out of the two messi has the most natural talent. There's no flicks , tricks or steppovers , he just glides past players at will.

Ronaldo on the other hand has worked dam hard to get to the top.

 

tough call to say who's the best, would Messi manage the same goal ratio in the prem ?

I think ronaldo is the better all rounded player overall. but a tough call.

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