Racism in football

[Guest OwlPastie]

Racism is something being hilighted in football more and more, which is obviously a positive thing. It getting the attention and condemnation from the media and public does show progression. 

 

But where is the line drawn, and how severe should the punishment be?

 

The racist abuse our England players received after missing penalties, for me should be a lifetime ban, and community service at a minimum. 

 

But what about other cases that are seen as less severe? 

 

For example, the chants like the "Park Park wherever you may be". Is that lifetime ban worthy, or even ban worthy? It might not be "abusive" but it's definitely racist. 

 

The Adebeyour Chant? That was a case of both abusive and racist. If we hear songs like that again, should fans receive lifetime bans? 

 

Should fans be allowed to chant about a players skin colour? Should any chant mentioning the colour of someone's skin be ban worthy? Surely skin colour shouldn't come into anyone's thoughts on a player at all. 

 

People in the public eye often have to publicly accept responsibility and apologise for their wrong doings. Should perpetrators of racist behaviour be held to the same accountability? 

[Errol Flashman]

 

[Joe Sunburn]

Thanks for posting this video. Viewed it and am glad the conversation is well underway amongst the veteran players who have the clout, standing, and voice to improve relations. I must commend the Owlstalk community for the courage to post against blatant racism in (all) sport. We are the change that'll make win the day. 

[CalmJimmers]

On 13/07/2021 at 12:26, OwlPastie said:

Racism is something being hilighted in football more and more, which is obviously a positive thing. It getting the attention and condemnation from the media and public does show progression. 

 

But where is the line drawn, and how severe should the punishment be?

 

The racist abuse our England players received after missing penalties, for me should be a lifetime ban, and community service at a minimum. 

 

But what about other cases that are seen as less severe? 

 

For example, the chants like the "Park Park wherever you may be". Is that lifetime ban worthy, or even ban worthy? It might not be "abusive" but it's definitely racist. 

 

The Adebeyour Chant? That was a case of both abusive and racist. If we hear songs like that again, should fans receive lifetime bans? 

 

Should fans be allowed to chant about a players skin colour? Should any chant mentioning the colour of someone's skin be ban worthy? Surely skin colour shouldn't come into anyone's thoughts on a player at all. 

 

People in the public eye often have to publicly accept responsibility and apologise for their wrong doings. Should perpetrators of racist behaviour be held to the same accountability? 

 

Wednesday used to sign about Lewis Buxton being the white Cafu. Can't really see that being racist. 

 

I think when a chant or any sort of language is derogatory, makes out races or cultures to be 'less than' or primitive or is generally trying to be abusive then those doing it should get bans, and face criminal punishment. 

 

Read on the BBC site that one of the guy's arrested for racially abusing the England players online is 42. Honestly, what type of life must you live to be 42 and get reyt mad at kicking a ball around to go and anonymously abuse a teenager online. Should be named, shamed and made to apologise publicly. 

[matthefish2002]

On 13/07/2021 at 12:26, OwlPastie said:

Racism is something being hilighted in football more and more, which is obviously a positive thing. It getting the attention and condemnation from the media and public does show progression. 

 

But where is the line drawn, and how severe should the punishment be?

 

The racist abuse our England players received after missing penalties, for me should be a lifetime ban, and community service at a minimum. 

 

But what about other cases that are seen as less severe? 

 

For example, the chants like the "Park Park wherever you may be". Is that lifetime ban worthy, or even ban worthy? It might not be "abusive" but it's definitely racist. 

 

The Adebeyour Chant? That was a case of both abusive and racist. If we hear songs like that again, should fans receive lifetime bans? 

 

Should fans be allowed to chant about a players skin colour? Should any chant mentioning the colour of someone's skin be ban worthy? Surely skin colour shouldn't come into anyone's thoughts on a player at all. 

 

People in the public eye often have to publicly accept responsibility and apologise for their wrong doings. Should perpetrators of racist behaviour be held to the same accountability? 

 

Think you have to take each case on its merits.

Think a bloke at 42 should get a more severe punishment than a teenage kid for instance. 

[Guest OwlPastie]

6 minutes ago, CalmJimmers said:

 

Wednesday used to sign about Lewis Buxton being the white Cafu. Can't really see that being racist. 

 

I think when a chant or any sort of language is derogatory, makes out races or cultures to be 'less than' or primitive or is generally trying to be abusive then those doing it should get bans, and face criminal punishment. 

 

Read on the BBC site that one of the guy's arrested for racially abusing the England players online is 42. Honestly, what type of life must you live to be 42 and get reyt mad at kicking a ball around to go and anonymously abuse a teenager online. Should be named, shamed and made to apologise publicly. 

 

That really is so sad. Bad enough a young lad saying it just for some reaction and attention, but at 42 it's just pathetic. 

 

Yeah I remember the Buxton song, although it's not a derogatory chant would it be accepted today. There's been clips before the Rashford penalty circulating with fans in a pub chanting "Give it to the black man, he'll score". Obviously it was meant as encouragement, but does that cross a line of being racist? 

 

There's so many grey areas which makes it so hard to police, but I think more than ever now as fans we are quicker to stamp out any chant someone trying to start that would be offensive. 

 

Anyone remember about 20 years ago, on the Kop I heard "I'd rather be a **** than a blade" on multiple occasions. It's disgusting to think that we had things like that so recently. 

[markg]

2 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

That really is so sad. Bad enough a young lad saying it just for some reaction and attention, but at 42 it's just pathetic. 

 

Yeah I remember the Buxton song, although it's not a derogatory chant would it be accepted today. There's been clips before the Rashford penalty circulating with fans in a pub chanting "Give it to the black man, he'll score". Obviously it was meant as encouragement, but does that cross a line of being racist? 

 

There's so many grey areas which makes it so hard to police, but I think more than ever now as fans we are quicker to stamp out any chant someone trying to start that would be offensive. 

 

Anyone remember about 20 years ago, on the Kop I heard "I'd rather be a **** than a blade" on multiple occasions. It's disgusting to think that we had things like that so recently. 

Yes, it would be. Ian Wright explains why. Simply, the song strips the person back to being just a colour. Try and put yourself into the shoes of a black person who has had years of being singled out, harassed or discriminated against just due to the colour of your skin. Song like that strip a person's being back down to their colour. Even if the song that wasn't meant in that way, it still can have the effect.

 

 

[CalmJimmers]

1 minute ago, OwlPastie said:

 

That really is so sad. Bad enough a young lad saying it just for some reaction and attention, but at 42 it's just pathetic. 

 

Yeah I remember the Buxton song, although it's not a derogatory chant would it be accepted today. There's been clips before the Rashford penalty circulating with fans in a pub chanting "Give it to the black man, he'll score". Obviously it was meant as encouragement, but does that cross a line of being racist? 

 

There's so many grey areas which makes it so hard to police, but I think more than ever now as fans we are quicker to stamp out any chant someone trying to start that would be offensive. 

 

Anyone remember about 20 years ago, on the Kop I heard "I'd rather be a **** than a blade" on multiple occasions. It's disgusting to think that we had things like that so recently. 

 

I dunno if it would be accepted, again I don't think it was a racist song. If we had a class striker (beyond the bounds of reality, I know) and started chanting he's the black Harry Kane would that be racist? I really don't know, I personally wouldn't think so.

 

Does anybody know what the sentencing is for racially abusing somebody, physically or digitally?

[Guest OwlPastie]

1 minute ago, markg said:

Yes, it would be. Ian Wright explains why. Simply, the song strips the person back to being just a colour. Try and put yourself into the shoes of a black person who has had years of being singled out, harassed or discriminated against just due to the colour of your skin. Song like that strip a person's being back down to their colour. Even if the song that wasn't meant in that way, it still can have the effect.

 

 

 

But the fans singing it were also black. That's why I raised the issue, because it was purely encouragement. I don't think there was any malicious intent behind it, but then again it could be seen as derogatory towards our white players. 

 

The only colour that should matter is the one on the shirt. For anyone who calls themselves a football fan, race shouldn't come into it. 

[markg]

2 minutes ago, CalmJimmers said:

 

I dunno if it would be accepted, again I don't think it was a racist song. If we had a class striker (beyond the bounds of reality, I know) and started chanting he's the black Harry Kane would that be racist? I really don't know, I personally wouldn't think so.

 

Does anybody know what the sentencing is for racially abusing somebody, physically or digitally?

To me singing about him being a black Harry Kane would be racist yes.

 

they’d be no need to bring colour into it. There song would basically say your are the black version of someone, stripping everything back again to just the colour of someone’s skin 

[CalmJimmers]

1 minute ago, markg said:

To me singing about him being a black Harry Kane would be racist yes.

 

they’d be no need to bring colour into it. There song would basically say your are the black version of someone, stripping everything back again to just the colour of someone’s skin 

 

The definition of racism though covers prejudice, discrimination or antagonism to a racial or ethnic group. Would that be racist? Would there be any prejudice, discrimination or antagonism? Was it towards Lewis Buxton?

 

All genuine questions, and willing to keep open-minded about it all.

[markg]

2 minutes ago, CalmJimmers said:

 

The definition of racism though covers prejudice, discrimination or antagonism to a racial or ethnic group. Would that be racist? Would there be any prejudice, discrimination or antagonism? Was it towards Lewis Buxton?

 

All genuine questions, and willing to keep open-minded about it all.

I agree it's good to talk it thorough. People will have different opinions.

 

My opinion is that stripping something totally back just to the colour of someone skin is racist. Using the Kane example, why could the song not just be about him being like Harry Kane. No need to make the difference the colour of the skin. Imagine if Darren Moore got us promoted (fingers crossed). Would we want to be singing he's the black Alex Ferguson? On one hand we are comparing him to Sir Alex which would be a compliment but then we have to remind him that he is different to Sir Alex, because he is black. 

 

To me, the Lewis Buxton thing, isn't as relevant to me because Lewis Buxton won't likely have been told he was different and constantly reminded that he is a white man and had that used to discriminate and single him out,

 

[markg]

1 minute ago, markg said:

I agree it's good to talk it thorough. People will have different opinions.

 

My opinion is that stripping something totally back just to the colour of someone skin is racist. Using the Kane example, why could the song not just be about him being like Harry Kane. No need to make the difference the colour of the skin. Imagine if Darren Moore got us promoted (fingers crossed). Would we want to be singing he's the black Alex Ferguson? On one hand we are comparing him to Sir Alex which would be a compliment but then we have to remind him that he is different to Sir Alex, because he is black. 

 

To me, the Lewis Buxton thing, isn't as relevant to me because Lewis Buxton won't likely have been told he was different and constantly reminded that he is a white man and had that used to discriminate and single him out,

 

Imagine if a black scientist won the nobel prize. Would we want to be hearing 'he is the black Thomas Edison?'. Almost as if it is the utmost complement to be compared to a great white man. Not just a great man. Might be a silly example but hope people know what my point is

[CalmJimmers]

1 minute ago, markg said:

I agree it's good to talk it thorough. People will have different opinions.

 

My opinion is that stripping something totally back just to the colour of someone skin is racist. Using the Kane example, why could the song not just be about him being like Harry Kane. No need to make the difference the colour of the skin. Imagine if Darren Moore got us promoted (fingers crossed). Would we want to be singing he's the black Alex Ferguson? On one hand we are comparing him to Sir Alex which would be a compliment but then we have to remind him that he is different to Sir Alex, because he is black. 

 

To me, the Lewis Buxton thing, isn't as relevant to me because Lewis Buxton won't likely have been told he was different and constantly reminded that he is a white man and had that used to discriminate and single him out,

 

 

Yeah fair, it would feel uncomfortable chanting that about Darren Moore. And agree re the point on Buxton.

 

I do hope we are chanting t'old Moore's name at the end of the season though!

[markg]

Just now, CalmJimmers said:

 

Yeah fair, it would feel uncomfortable chanting that about Darren Moore. And agree re the point on Buxton.

 

I do hope we are chanting t'old Moore's name at the end of the season though!

Definitely mate yes. And I hope it isn't 'moore out'. Seems like such a long time ago when we were singing about a manager positively due to being so bad for the last few years. 

 

 

[Guest OwlPastie]

4 minutes ago, CalmJimmers said:

 

Yeah fair, it would feel uncomfortable chanting that about Darren Moore. And agree re the point on Buxton.

 

I do hope we are chanting t'old Moore's name at the end of the season though!

 

If race wasn't brought into it, would you feel comfortable? For example we called him Pep of League One, similar to how we called Megson Ginger Mourinho. Essentially comparing his (hopefully his success) to another successful manager? 

[markg]

1 minute ago, OwlPastie said:

 

If race wasn't brought into it, would you feel comfortable? For example we called him Pep of League One, similar to how we called Megson Ginger Mourinho. Essentially comparing his (hopefully his success) to another successful manager? 

I would yes.

[CalmJimmers]

5 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

If race wasn't brought into it, would you feel comfortable? For example we called him Pep of League One, similar to how we called Megson Ginger Mourinho. Essentially comparing his (hopefully his success) to another successful manager? 

 

Yeah I think that's fair, I'd feel more comfortable with that.

 

But again, I don't think I'm qualified to talk about racism. I'm white and in my 30s, I don't have much experience of it apart from hearing about it on the news. I don't deal with a load of sh!t that others do on a regular basis.

[Ellis Rimmer]

50 minutes ago, markg said:

 

 

To me, the Lewis Buxton thing, isn't as relevant to me because Lewis Buxton won't likely have been told he was different and constantly reminded that he is a white man and had that used to discriminate and single him out,

 

Well obviously it’s singling Cafu out on the basis of his skin colour so is still offensive 

[Kew Owl]

Surely what is key is whether the intention behind referring to a persons colour is to be derogatory and cause offence or not - which makes some cases hard to judge.

 

When I was a lad, the famous Brazilian footballer, Pele, was often referred to either as the Black Diamond or the Black Pearl, but I don’t seem to recall people taking offence at all.

 

Quite simply, it was, correctly in my view, taken as a token of esteem and affection for one of the worlds greatest ever players.