Manwë Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rogers said: Problem is, they don’t have to look that hard to get things to report on; and it’s not the England football team losing; it’s the thousands cheering someone doing coke in public, people rushing gates and assaulting stewards, kicking foreign looking people in the head, fighting, racism, etc. What has a few individuals behaviour got to do with England? It's this hatred towards an entire country based on the extrapolation of actions of a few that exists mostly on social media. In Rome, there were Italians with a banner "fizz the Queen". Does that attitude represent all Italians? Of course not. Where is the universal condemnation of the Italian people for such an offensive sign towards the head of state of 14 countries and the head of the Anglican Church? No-where. Is there any violence and racism in Italy? Of course there is. Some people are racist, some racists support England, most people are not racist. The politics of division is where you have tens of millions supporting a team regardless of colour, creed or anything else, and pick out the dozen/hundred or so that are racist as a valid reason to hate the tens of millions. And people on social media will be lapping it up, because it supports their own bigotry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash77 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Good article, echoes of croatia semi final, southgate too late to react at being pinned back https://www.skysports.com/football/news/19693/12353740/euro-2020-final-where-did-it-go-wrong-for-england Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Manwë said: What has a few individuals behaviour got to do with England? It's this hatred towards an entire country based on the extrapolation of actions of a few that exists mostly on social media. In Rome, there were Italians with a banner "fizz the Queen". Does that attitude represent all Italians? Of course not. Where is the universal condemnation of the Italian people for such an offensive sign towards the head of state of 14 countries and the head of the Anglican Church? No-where. Is there any violence and racism in Italy? Of course there is. Some people are racist, some racists support England, most people are not racist. The politics of division is where you have tens of millions supporting a team regardless of colour, creed or anything else, and pick out the dozen/hundred or so that are racist as a valid reason to hate the tens of millions. And people on social media will be lapping it up, because it supports their own bigotry. It’s those stories that world media reports on, that’s what it has to do with England. Unfortunately. Right or wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Sore one to take. It could have been so different but that's football. We got to the final for once, so many memories along the way. Onto the next one. We have a World Cup in 18 months and I believe this team can go far again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I think we have to accept that pound for pound Italy were and are the better team. We knew it before the game and I suspect it's why Southgate plays the team and formation he does, which conditioned the squad throughout the tournament games ready for the latter stages. With some luck and different decisions we could have won - it's always a fine line at this stage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 England did what England does they got further than most of us expected, they played some good games, but some of the others including last night we got our tactics wrong. We looked better as a team when attacking teams, we got the first goal then sat back and let Italy attack us. We defended too deep and the changes that should have come at half time didn't happen, we then took our best player off in Rice and replaced him with Henderson who take penalties for Liverpool then we subbed him off before the end, I understand Kane is the captain and Sterling is the spark but both could and probably should have been replaced in the first 90 minutes, when you have talent such as Grealish, Sancho, Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Calvin Lewin you need to make changes to win the game not play for the possibilities of penalties. The penalties were very strange Kane, Maguire all good, then Rashford who had been waiting 15 minutes to get on the pitch to have his first touch, then what went through his mind only he will know. Sancho was an awful penalty at the perfect height for a keeper as was Saka. You are taught to aim for the corners or hit them high above the keepers stretch. Sheridan used to aim for the inside netting when taking penalties and rarely missed one. But my issue with the penalties was where was Sterling, Grealish, Phillips, Shaw, Walker, Stones all the senior players not taking 1 of the first 5 penalties, instead they left it to the two players just coming on and an 19 year old kid. Overall I am proud of how far we came, but feel like we have once again let a chance of winning something go, the world cup we didn't play any of the big guns then lost to Croatia in the semi's, equally other than Germany we avoided Spain, Portugal, France, Holland this time round. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxtongent Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I simply cannot understand this racist abuse. I am certain that the players themselves, wherever they are playing, have inntheir minds that they simply want to play football. The colour of their skin won't matter to them . The only thoughts may be 'I simply want to get past that great big white/black b*****d of a defender who is seen not as a colour, but a hurdle to overcome. It so happens that some of our penalty takers/ missers were a different colour of skin to some, And don't forget that we were in the final due to a MISSED penalty, scored on the rebound by Kane - as white as they come. Had he taken that penalty in a shoot-out instead of in actual playing time, it would not have counted. IMO the mistake made was in not giving the three takers any actual playing time before being asked to take a penalty. Even a formula 1 car gets a warm=up lap. If we are totally honest, the better team won. Whether this was tactical or not is immaterial. Mancini saw at half time that his initial tactics weren't working, and changed them. We didn't, but fell back trying to defend a one goal lead. Fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 plus ca change… But Italy deserved it - best team of the tourney. We just weren’t attack minded enough last night, Southgate lacked the imagination needed when it really counted. Mancini more dynamic and made the right calls to change the Italians up, though their goal was a soft one. Saka and Sancho shouldn’t have taken those pens - Could never see them scoring in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 It was like watching Wednesday. You just knew what was coming. I'm falling out of love with football I think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, room0035 said: England did what England does they got further than most of us expected, they played some good games, but some of the others including last night we got our tactics wrong. We looked better as a team when attacking teams, we got the first goal then sat back and let Italy attack us. We defended too deep and the changes that should have come at half time didn't happen, we then took our best player off in Rice and replaced him with Henderson who take penalties for Liverpool then we subbed him off before the end, I understand Kane is the captain and Sterling is the spark but both could and probably should have been replaced in the first 90 minutes, when you have talent such as Grealish, Sancho, Saka, Rashford, Bellingham, Calvin Lewin you need to make changes to win the game not play for the possibilities of penalties. The penalties were very strange Kane, Maguire all good, then Rashford who had been waiting 15 minutes to get on the pitch to have his first touch, then what went through his mind only he will know. Sancho was an awful penalty at the perfect height for a keeper as was Saka. You are taught to aim for the corners or hit them high above the keepers stretch. Sheridan used to aim for the inside netting when taking penalties and rarely missed one. But my issue with the penalties was where was Sterling, Grealish, Phillips, Shaw, Walker, Stones all the senior players not taking 1 of the first 5 penalties, instead they left it to the two players just coming on and an 19 year old kid. Overall I am proud of how far we came, but feel like we have once again let a chance of winning something go, the world cup we didn't play any of the big guns then lost to Croatia in the semi's, equally other than Germany we avoided Spain, Portugal, France, Holland this time round. You're right, but we we're only in the top 8 going into the tournament, so making the final is a tremendous achievement. We need to learn from the experience and develop. Watching the two teams for 40 mins in the 2nd showed how we still struggle against the very best - Italy had all possession, composure, skill and pace and we looked slow, pensive and panicked a few times. The good thing is we can improve this and develop this team to compete in future tournament semis/finals. Whether the defensive set-up is our USP moving forward will be up for debate, as it can feel alien to the English culture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Crawshaw Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, The Wall said: For those over-analysing the penalties, you have to accept that there is a large slice of luck involved. Jorginho was the best penalty taker ever, until Pickford saved his, now is he rubbish? We don't help ourselves by harping on about Southgate's pen either. Basically saying to the players 'if you miss, we'll talk about it for 25 years'. The players who took them obviously looked the best in training. We had a plan, so did Italy, one of us had to lose, it really is as simple as that. My hope is that in a few years we can't even remember who missed the pens in this final The blame for last night's failure should fall not on the players but on Southgate, which to be fair to him he has accepted. He will probably realise now that it was unfair of him to put the responsibilty of vital penalties on such young players. Particularly players that had played so little part in the game up until then. It's OK him saying they were scoring them in training but it's totally different putting them away at an empty St. George's park to the cauldron of a full Wembley and that pressure. It was the time for senior players such as Grealish, Walker, Shaw, Stones. Yes they could have missed them too but they would be better placed and strong enough to deal with the fall out. Who knows what effect mentally it could have on young players like Saka and Sancho. Hopefully they will be able to get over it, but Southgate should have protected them from that pressure. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmJimmers Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said: The blame for last night's failure should fall not on the players but on Southgate, which to be fair to him he has accepted. He will probably realise now that it was unfair of him to put the responsibilty of vital penalties on such young players. Particularly players that had played so little part in the game up until then. It's OK him saying they were scoring them in training but it's totally different putting them away at an empty St. George's park to the cauldron of a full Wembley and that pressure. It was the time for senior players such as Grealish, Walker, Shaw, Stones. Yes they could have missed them too but they would be better placed and strong enough to deal with the fall out. Who knows what effect mentally it could have on young players like Saka and Sancho. Hopefully they will be able to get over it, but Southgate should have protected them from that pressure. Think that only thing that still irks me. For me it felt like a mistake in a final to put a 19 year old, who had a bad game, into the biggest pressure spot in the last 50 years. Italy went for experience and it worked. Need to learn from it - but I'm proud we went toe-to-toe with the best in Europe, and were a couple of kicks away from winning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I'm more proud that we had two 19 year olds who were ready to step up and take penalties in the final of the European championships. God knows how they manage to play football when they must need a wheelbarrow to carry their ballacks in. At 19 I'd have wet myself at being asked to take one! They missed, so what, someone has to. Their stock has only gone up after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sternlad Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tommy Crawshaw said: The blame for last night's failure should fall not on the players but on Southgate, which to be fair to him he has accepted. He will probably realise now that it was unfair of him to put the responsibilty of vital penalties on such young players. Particularly players that had played so little part in the game up until then. It's OK him saying they were scoring them in training but it's totally different putting them away at an empty St. George's park to the cauldron of a full Wembley and that pressure. It was the time for senior players such as Grealish, Walker, Shaw, Stones. Yes they could have missed them too but they would be better placed and strong enough to deal with the fall out. Who knows what effect mentally it could have on young players like Saka and Sancho. Hopefully they will be able to get over it, but Southgate should have protected them from that pressure. Agree totally with this, why didn’t Shaw and Walker take penalties? Both high on confidence, both experienced professionals, both have good ball striking ability…some crazy decisions by the management team last night in all aspects of that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wall Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Why do we always have to blame somebody though? The England team have done a massive amount of work on penalties, but that doesn't mean they're going to win 100% of the shoot outs. Not even Germany win all their shoot outs. We got edged out by a slightly better team, who also missed two penalties. If you'd told me at the start that we'd have a penalty shootout to win the tournament, I'd have snapped your hand off. Last time we went out in R16 against Iceland. This time we went to the last kick off the tournament without losing a game. Let's have a bit of perspective 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lythamowl Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, theowlsman said: It was like watching Wednesday. You just knew what was coming. I'm falling out of love with football I think. you are not alone brother...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmJimmers Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lythamowl said: you are not alone brother...... Dunno, feel the complete opposite if I'm honest. Felt disconnected from Wednesday last year, this team going through to the final has sparked the infatuation with football again. Might be League 1 next year but I can't wait for it to start again now. Loved the community feel and buzz of the last 4 weeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wall Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Anyone know how many penalties Ronaldo and Messi have missed? 27 each. Why don't they just put their laces through it and put it in the corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 Wheres best place I can get this covered over/removed? 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Wall said: Why do we always have to blame somebody though? The England team have done a massive amount of work on penalties, but that doesn't mean they're going to win 100% of the shoot outs. Not even Germany win all their shoot outs. We got edged out by a slightly better team, who also missed two penalties. If you'd told me at the start that we'd have a penalty shootout to win the tournament, I'd have snapped your hand off. Last time we went out in R16 against Iceland. This time we went to the last kick off the tournament without losing a game. Let's have a bit of perspective Bang on Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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