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ENGLAND VS GERMANY - Official Matchday Thread


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2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

 

 


All totally missing the point. Imagine if Pickford hadn’t made one of those two class saves and so we go behind and end up going out. We’d be pretty annoyed that we at least didn’t try and use the wealth of attacking talent we have.

 

We aren’t playing the probabilities. Our fans saying it’s all about the result are the same ones that were supporting Garry Monk after 8 points from the first 5 games last season and then wanting to throw him under the bus when we lost the next 4. Reality was there had been no difference in approach, but the margins had gone against us whereas before they had gone for us.

 

If you put teams to bed by a few goals, which England are capable of, you take the fine margins out of the equation. We’re leaving it to chance by playing in this way.


It’s all ifs and buts though. 
 

If Scotland had scored.

If Croatia had scored. 
If Germany had scored.

If the Czech Republic had scored.

 

None of them did. That’s not leaving anything to chance. 
 

You don’t get 4 clean sheets on the bounce through luck and chance. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Matt_1 said:


It’s all ifs and buts though. 
 

If Scotland had scored.

If Croatia had scored. 
If Germany had scored.

If the Czech Republic had scored.

 

None of them did. That’s not leaving anything to chance. 
 

You don’t get 4 clean sheets on the bounce through luck and chance. 
 

 

Exactly the same argument was made when Wednesday were doing ok under Monk when the tactics and style of play were awful. Those arguments disappeared as soon as we had a bad run.

 

Its not quite the same with England as they have more about them, but if we set up and play in this style and don’t make the final, all the people who are currently praising the tactics will hypocritically say why didn’t we attack more given we have all of these good attacking players in the squad.

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56 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Exactly the same argument was made when Wednesday were doing ok under Monk when the tactics and style of play were awful. Those arguments disappeared as soon as we had a bad run.

 

Its not quite the same with England as they have more about them, but if we set up and play in this style and don’t make the final, all the people who are currently praising the tactics will hypocritically say why didn’t we attack more given we have all of these good attacking players in the squad.

 

I am praising his tactics and if we go out on Saturday I will still be praising what has been achieved in this tournament.

 

We are not one of the elite footballing nations.

 

eg If England were a premier league club we would be Everton not Manchester United. ( Big enough to have a chance but never likely to win )

 

Consequently imo for us to get through to the knockout stage of the finals be it the Euros or the World Cup  is a job well done , going through last night and any further progression is a bonus.

 

So Southgate has got us through to the Semis in a World Cup and at least the Quarters in this Euros , that's pretty good going in my book.

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3 minutes ago, Geedee said:

 

I am praising his tactics and if we go out on Saturday I will still be praising what has been achieved in this tournament.

 

We are not one of the elite footballing nations.

 

eg If England were a premier league club we would be Everton not Manchester United. ( Big enough to have a chance but never likely to win )

 

Consequently imo for us to get through to the knockout stage of the finals be it the Euros or the World Cup  is a job well done , going through last night and any further progression is a bonus.

 

So Southgate has got us through to the Semis in a World Cup and at least the Quarters in this Euros , that's pretty good going in my book.

I disagree.. I’d say we’re more like a Liverpool or a Chelsea, and Man City (France) have been knocked out and we’ve drawn Burnley and Brighton in the quarters and semis. Complete failure to not make the final.

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1 hour ago, Matt_1 said:


It’s all ifs and buts though. 
 

If Scotland had scored.

If Croatia had scored. 
If Germany had scored.

If the Czech Republic had scored.

 

None of them did. That’s not leaving anything to chance. 
 

You don’t get 4 clean sheets on the bounce through luck and chance. 
 

 

 

Every country through to the Quarter Finals can point to a bit of a rub of the green that's gone they way to get this far.
Think every result and scoreline has felt about right so far.
Think we deserve to beat Germany last night, basically it came down to we scored with our 2 chances and Germany missed theres.

 

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If we'd gone all out attack we could have conceded a few on the break like Portugal did. Then we need to pull it back without getting hit again. All ifs though innit? What I don't get and never will is how people can moan after a win. How we win or lose makes no difference to me. Doesn't change it. I just think some folk can never be happy. 

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Wonder if there was a load of miserable sods in Germany in 1990 saying "yeah but we were lucky, cos Waddle hit the post..."

Or in 1996 saying "but if Gascoigne had scored that tap in..."

 

Enjoy it, it doesn't happen very often.

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5 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I disagree.. I’d say we’re more like a Liverpool or a Chelsea, and Man City (France) have been knocked out and we’ve drawn Burnley and Brighton in the quarters and semis. Complete failure to not make the final.

liverpool, and  chelsea  bpth win things on a regular basis, england have won one trophy and  not won anything in over 50 years thats why they are more like everton.

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I think the disappointing thing about our matches so far has been the lack of creativity and risk going forwards.  Many lament the inability of previous teams with outstanding skill to perform at the highest level.  This team has skill in abundance but to play effectively 7 defensive players at home in a sudden death knock out against an ageing team that can 3rd in their league is not a position that is going to strike fear into the opposition.

The other half of the draw has all the top teams, which fortunate will not come across until/if we reach the final. 
It seems a crime that the like of Foden, Grealish, Mount and even Bellingham are not given more time 

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27 minutes ago, Geedee said:

liverpool, and  chelsea  bpth win things on a regular basis, england have won one trophy and  not won anything in over 50 years thats why they are more like everton.

Forget what teams have won historically though.. at club level there are half a dozen trophies a season so yes you’d expect the big sides to win stuff fairly regularly. At international level there’s one trophy every 2 years, and the majority of top players play in 4-5 tournaments in their career (Ronaldo is on 9 but that’s not typical).

 

So whatever happened 5 tournaments ago is an irrelevance as none of the team were there. What happened 10 tournaments ago, some of them weren’t born. It’s just not relevant. Think none of the current squad were at Euro 2012 or earlier and only a handful at 2014 (Sterling?), majority of our players are in their first or second tournaments.

 

Its more relevant to compare the various squads and say who is best. France are Man City.. if we’re Everton, who’s Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester etc. None of the other squads are better than England.

 

Of the teams left in, I’d say we’re the strongest. Spain are average, main player is Morata who did nothing at Chelsea. Italy are a good team but not big name players.. interesting to see how they get on. Belgium have 2-3 who’d get in Englands side but that’s it.

 

And we have the easiest draw of the big sides left too. Expectations should be to at least make the final, and with it being at Wembley, hopefully win.

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7 hours ago, Costello 77 said:

Save me looking it up... what's the situation with the cards we've picked up.

 

If anyone on a yellow(deffo rice/Phillips) get a yellow in the 1/4, they are banned for the semi. 

 

After that it's reset. 

 

Very dangerous for those on a yellow already.   Rice n Phillips did well to stay controlled v Germany but another game to avoid a yellow is not good with the semi looming(hopefully) 

 

Think he hopes to be in front then can see him wanting to get Phillips off. 

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28 minutes ago, Minesapint said:

I think the disappointing thing about our matches so far has been the lack of creativity and risk going forwards.  Many lament the inability of previous teams with outstanding skill to perform at the highest level.  This team has skill in abundance but to play effectively 7 defensive players at home in a sudden death knock out against an ageing team that can 3rd in their league is not a position that is going to strike fear into the opposition.

The other half of the draw has all the top teams, which fortunate will not come across until/if we reach the final. 
It seems a crime that the like of Foden, Grealish, Mount and even Bellingham are not given more time 

Tournament football is about picking a team to win the tournament. Not playing the best attacking players to please the crowd and general public watching.

It's the one strength that Southgate has. He does it his way, his style, his players. And so far who can argue that hasn't been a success.

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13 minutes ago, Leeds U from sheff said:

If anyone on a yellow(deffo rice/Phillips) get a yellow in the 1/4, they are banned for the semi. 

 

After that it's reset. 

 

Very dangerous for those on a yellow already.   Rice n Phillips did well to stay controlled v Germany but another game to avoid a yellow is not good with the semi looming(hopefully) 

 

Think he hopes to be in front then can see him wanting to get Phillips off. 

McGuire as well isn't it?

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13 hours ago, Hornsby said:

It was senior players who changed formation and tactics for Italia 90, not Robson.

 

 


Yes, this true.

 

What is more, England at Italia 90 is one of the best examples of selective memory ever:

 

1-1 draw with Ireland - we played poorly

 

0-0 draw with The Netherlands - we played well

 

1-0 win over Egypt - we played poorly

 

1-0 win over Belgium - second best all game

 

3-2 win over Cameroon - largely second best but for two killer passes from Gazza when we needed them but probably should haven 3-1 down by then.

 

0-0 with Germany - played well

 

Winning sides at tournaments rarely play well in all games and sides who prioritise all out attack rarely win either.

 

The criticism of Southgate baffles me, it really does.

 

We went into Euro 2000 with ‘attacking’ Kevin Keegan.

 

How did that go again?

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4 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Forget what teams have won historically though.. at club level there are half a dozen trophies a season so yes you’d expect the big sides to win stuff fairly regularly. At international level there’s one trophy every 2 years, and the majority of top players play in 4-5 tournaments in their career (Ronaldo is on 9 but that’s not typical).

 

So whatever happened 5 tournaments ago is an irrelevance as none of the team were there. What happened 10 tournaments ago, some of them weren’t born. It’s just not relevant. Think none of the current squad were at Euro 2012 or earlier and only a handful at 2014 (Sterling?), majority of our players are in their first or second tournaments.

 

Its more relevant to compare the various squads and say who is best. France are Man City.. if we’re Everton, who’s Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester etc. None of the other squads are better than England.

 

Of the teams left in, I’d say we’re the strongest. Spain are average, main player is Morata who did nothing at Chelsea. Italy are a good team but not big name players.. interesting to see how they get on. Belgium have 2-3 who’d get in Englands side but that’s it.

 

And we have the easiest draw of the big sides left too. Expectations should be to at least make the final, and with it being at Wembley, hopefully win.

You make some good points here but I think you are way off on Spain, they are really good, pace, great ball movement and now they are scoring goals.

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14 hours ago, Minesapint said:

I think the disappointing thing about our matches so far has been the lack of creativity and risk going forwards.  Many lament the inability of previous teams with outstanding skill to perform at the highest level.  This team has skill in abundance but to play effectively 7 defensive players at home in a sudden death knock out against an ageing team that can 3rd in their league is not a position that is going to strike fear into the opposition.

The other half of the draw has all the top teams, which fortunate will not come across until/if we reach the final. 
It seems a crime that the like of Foden, Grealish, Mount and even Bellingham are not given more time 


It’s a weird one, yet as soon as France hit another gear they went out.

Netherlands ripped teams apart, and are out.

Germany hit 4 v Portugal, out.

 

I can see the merits in holding off and not revealing your entire hand straight away, but it’s frustrating for sure.

Do you start with Grealish and risk your game changer getting marked/kicked out of the game, or do you bring him on and force the other team to completely change their approach?

 

Fine margins. Had Muller not fluffed that open goal we might have gone out and lambasting the manager’s lack of adventure.

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