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Hannover's Julian Borner comments


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On 24/06/2021 at 03:33, quinnssweetshop said:

You'd be right in many respects, yet..
Everyone's different and I think the reason people are so afraid right now is that the clubs existence is at stake.
Many people are not used to situations that take you out of control, ( pandemic ) , so they hold onto what is ( uses term lightly in our regard ha ha )  " normal "

The club and it's history are ingrained in our culture, many of us from a young formative age, myself from the age of four. So it's importance cannot be reduced, nor can it be likened to love ones or family. It's social effect is all pervasive and almost tribal.

People are seeing the tribe, ( as such ) being destroyed in front of their very eyes.
 

Great post mate,totally agree,(great ideological summary)but i also think that for many,me included,we are also sick and tired of the Owner,and want him to LEAVE.....but are frustrated that we seem to have no avenue to make this happen.....

Ditto the 'Millionaires' who were wearing 'our' shirt....same old faces year in,Year out,reproducing only failure,but reaping huge rewards for it....(please everyone,you know their money is nailed on,so dont post there not getting paid,they will get there money)

I was going to put get their 'earnings'.....but changed my mind.....old fashioned term,usually associated with people of a certain generation.....pride associated with it, & entitlement...

Sad also to see still sections of our fan base still unable to embrace where the responsibility for this is....(ie its all  GM fault!!!)..& posting about if  we had kept(take your pick...) from the players released..etc....

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1 minute ago, Chris Apolon said:

I know roughly zero about football contracts but I have negotiated large contracts in other sectors and in every one there has been a force majeure clause 

 

Does anyone know if football contracts would contain similar?

 

By the way this isn't an excuse for non-payment/reduced payments but trying to understand about the ramifications of the pandemic in football generally

I don't know if there are force majeure clauses in footballing contracts but I doubt it would apply in this case anyway.

 

Although the snowstorm hit Wednesday severely for the Swansea game...

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Guest Hornsby
4 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

I know roughly zero about football contracts but I have negotiated large contracts in other sectors and in every one there has been a force majeure clause 

 

Does anyone know if football contracts would contain similar?

 

By the way this isn't an excuse for non-payment/reduced payments but trying to understand about the ramifications of the pandemic in football generally

How is that a force majeure  clause if Bill Gates was warning of a pandemic for years.

 

And if found to really come from Wuhan lab, that's not an act of God.

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4 minutes ago, Manwë said:

I don't know if there are force majeure clauses in footballing contracts but I doubt it would apply in this case anyway.

 

Although the snowstorm hit Wednesday severely for the Swansea game...

 

1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

How is that a force majeure  clause if Bill Gates was warning of a pandemic for years.

 

And if found to really come from Wuhan lab, that's not an act of God.

 

Force majeure, at least in contracts I've done (business to business mind so might be completely different) are any unforeseen event leading to unfulfilling of contract.

 

Like I said I've no idea, and in the many years I worked for said organisation I believe it was invoked once and it was on the clients end...we tried to invoke it a couple of times (mainly weather and server outage) but they weren't having any of it. 

 

I'm not defending Chansiri at all, we had cash flow issues pre pandemic but I'm wondering if this might be something he/his lawyers (if he has them) are looking at

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On 23/06/2021 at 20:32, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

"Lads haven’t been paid in 4 months"  To quote you, is not  the same as The lads haven't been paid on time in 4 months.

 

Still not good but don't stretch the tale ! 

Aye

Ive got my brass so feck the rest of you

Glad I’m not working with/ for you ‘comrade’

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20 minutes ago, Truth is out there said:

Aye

Ive got my brass so feck the rest of you

Glad I’m not working with/ for you ‘comrade’

 

He's only saying that it's an exaggeration to say that they haven't been paid in 4 months.

 

Jesus, what's wrong with people

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On 23/06/2021 at 19:51, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

That's been the worry all along, hasn't it?

 

As soon as a player presses the button on the wages issue, we're in line for another points deduction.

 

Given that, it's unbelievable that Chansiri would try to play hardball in a situation like this.

To be fair to DC, you would be gutted paying wages to that collective of bobbar last season. Shame there was no performance incentive built into the contracts; could have saved a fortune!

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3 minutes ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said:

To be fair to DC, you would be gutted paying wages to that collective of bobbar last season. Shame there was no performance incentive built into the contracts; could have saved a fortune!

 

He didn't have to offer them the contracts that he did.

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On 23/06/2021 at 19:43, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Surely he'd prefer:

 

He's crap now...lets not have him milking us for another year...sell for no less than £2m.

If he's crap and I agree he is how are we going to sell him for 2 million.

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A depressing tale really. Borners current transfer value is probably not that much more than what we owe him in wages. I think he’s good enough to play in L1 but he probably isn’t first choice anyway so it’s pointless having him sat on his arris getting paid a fortune. Also once someone’s not interested in playing for you all they have to do is not try very hard, get dropped and see out their fat contract. The fact we’ve dîcked the bloke about over wages and the fact he can’t fly backwards and forwards to see his family in Germany are clear reasons for him wanting to go. We are going to have to let him leave so let’s stop fannying about and let him go… 

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Wihout trying to defend Chansiri , or any Fotball Club Owner, and trying to look at this in  'non-tribal' way , I hinestly believe the situation to be very complex in mny ways. Please consider the following, nd not in any particular order:-

1. The 'Club' ie SWFC in past days, offers Player A a contract. That contract must surely be that, for £x, the player will become a Wednesday player.

2. The object of the club is to play football to entertain people, in the same way that  star will  perform on stage in order to attrct and entertain an audience .

3. The audience pays the promoter to be entertained.

4. The Promoter makes his money to a)pay the entertainer and b) to make a bob-or two himself. In order to do this, he relies on a)paying customers nd b) sales to outside influences such s TV etc.

 

BUT along comes covid, and things change tremendously. For a start, the 'Club' can no longer fulfil it's contract  to the full, since it is barred from attracting  customers  It cannot fulfill its contract to the Customer, but also it's bosses, the FA,EFL, FIFA etc insist that still retains it's players and must still play it's games, albeit without a large slice of it's income. 

This brings about a very complex situation. Some of the club's customers have put down a deposit (ST Holders)in order to buy the goods (watch the players play)

So now we have the situation whereby, even if playing, albeit without an audience, the player cannot be seen to be fulfilling all of his ontract, the Club cannot be seen to be fulfilling their contract by not attracting audiences, but must still fulfill it's contract to the FA,EFL et.etc.

 

I would venture to suggest that the player's contract is not with Chanciri, or any club Owner, but with the club itself, and any arguement is between the Player and the Club. How does the club make its money? From playing to paying customers (which it cannot have. The Owner, if the business is a limited company, is only liable to a Limited extent. Under FFP rules he is only allowed to invest a specific amount

 

It's not simply a situation of the Owner dipping into his own pocket. It's far more complicated. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME WHT THE ANSWER IS. i SIMPLY DON'T KNOW

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1 hour ago, The Wall said:

 

He's only saying that it's an exaggeration to say that they haven't been paid in 4 months.

 

Jesus, what's wrong with people

Aye - apologies

Can you lend us a couple of grand - - I’ll pay you (some of it) back in 4 months 

Not sure how much you’ll get back (or when) but Owls better than nowt, right? (& don’t let on to Borner cos he’s getting feck all)

 

people eh 

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Dont blame the guy.

 

Club should let him go, we arent paying him so not sure how we can dictate what he does next.

 

Good luck to him.

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2 hours ago, Truth is out there said:

Aye

Ive got my brass so feck the rest of you

Glad I’m not working with/ for you ‘comrade’

 

15 minutes ago, Truth is out there said:

Aye - apologies

Can you lend us a couple of grand - - I’ll pay you (some of it) back in 4 months 

Not sure how much you’ll get back (or when) but Owls better than nowt, right? (& don’t let on to Borner cos he’s getting feck all)

 

people eh 

 

people eh 

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23 minutes ago, Truth is out there said:

Aye - apologies

Can you lend us a couple of grand - - I’ll pay you (some of it) back in 4 months 

Not sure how much you’ll get back (or when) but Owls better than nowt, right? (& don’t let on to Borner cos he’s getting feck all)

 

people eh 

 

Ok mate,

 

Just to reiterate, nobody in the thread is saying the wages situation is ok.

We all agree that non payment or late payment is bad and I wouldn't blame Borner one bit for ripping up his contact and walking away (regardless of how he played last season) 

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Guest Hornsby
3 hours ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

 

Force majeure, at least in contracts I've done (business to business mind so might be completely different) are any unforeseen event leading to unfulfilling of contract.

 

Like I said I've no idea, and in the many years I worked for said organisation I believe it was invoked once and it was on the clients end...we tried to invoke it a couple of times (mainly weather and server outage) but they weren't having any of it. 

 

I'm not defending Chansiri at all, we had cash flow issues pre pandemic but I'm wondering if this might be something he/his lawyers (if he has them) are looking at

That have. And caved in before court before they lost bad and set a formal precedent.

 

Clear breach of contract.

 

Get yer claims in now.

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5 hours ago, The Wall said:

 

Ok mate,

 

Just to reiterate, nobody in the thread is saying the wages situation is ok.

We all agree that non payment or late payment is bad and I wouldn't blame Borner one bit for ripping up his contact and walking away (regardless of how he played last season) 

Errrrr

whoosh ?

sorry👍

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