Guest Grandad Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, SWFC Trust said: Our view is that if Sheffield 3 was sold to a new owner, and the stadium was transferred as part of the sale, the new owner would need to register the title deed as new owner. That would require a conveyancing process. Under the terms of the Localism Act, the Conveyancer would be required to ensure that the moratorium on sale provisions of the Act had been completed. In our view this means that the ACV provisions would apply as if the stadium had been sold. My view is that the ownership of the stadium isn't changing. The owners of the stadium are Sheffield 3 Limited. The shareholding of Sheffield 3 Limited can change a zillion times but it doesn't mean that the ownership of the stadium changes. So - as already suggested - an ACV is mostly meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, vulva said: Good stuff. 12 ‘board’ members sounds a bit excessive, for 605 members. Have you got a big enough table? BP employ 70,000 and they’ve got a board of 10. Why not put yourself forward, get elected, and then suggest a smaller board? Put ya money where ya mouth is n all that I'd vote for you if your policies were good Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Grandad said: My view is that the ownership of the stadium isn't changing. The owners of the stadium are Sheffield 3 Limited. The shareholding of Sheffield 3 Limited can change a zillion times but it doesn't mean that the ownership of the stadium changes. So - as already suggested - an ACV is mostly meaningless. Key is that Sheffield 3 limited is a separate legal entity to it's owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Hornsby said: RICS Red Book, due to material uncertainty that ACV would trigger. Also, Covid and one of my usually profitable clients lost money last year, following property revaluation. Further, S3 rents from club must also be uncertain so should already have revalued. Significantly, S3 ltd accounts also late. Talking rubbish mate honestly total codswallop re the impact of the ACV. Also complete rubbish the impact on Sheffield 3 limited the only thing that matters to Sheffield 3 limited is whether the shareholder can afford to fund the annual payments to swfc limited, but given the good relationship between the owners of both companies not going to ever be an issue is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Grandad said: My view is that the ownership of the stadium isn't changing. The owners of the stadium are Sheffield 3 Limited. The shareholding of Sheffield 3 Limited can change a zillion times but it doesn't mean that the ownership of the stadium changes. So - as already suggested - an ACV is mostly meaningless. I think saying it’s meaningless is very harsh. We don’t know how things are going to go, and if nothing else it gives six months breathing space if things go completely titties up. Without the money to buy the ground it is a pointless exercise, but little acorns and baby steps. Better than black balloons and Ken Bates if you ask me. The trust are the only organisation that are currently fighting for the fans. The more that back it, rather than sniping at it the better it will be. And yes you can find posts with me sniping, but I’ve now joined, having been impressed by their response to my criticism and the fact they are trying to do something. I joined wednesdayite back in the day for the same reason, but I always got the impression they were too busy fighting each other to fight for the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Surely it doesn't hurt to just put it in place Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, Plonk said: I think saying it’s meaningless is very harsh. We don’t know how things are going to go, and if nothing else it gives six months breathing space if things go completely titties up. Without the money to buy the ground it is a pointless exercise, but little acorns and baby steps. Better than black balloons and Ken Bates if you ask me. The trust are the only organisation that are currently fighting for the fans. The more that back it, rather than sniping at it the better it will be. And yes you can find posts with me sniping, but I’ve now joined, having been impressed by their response to my criticism and the fact they are trying to do something. I joined wednesdayite back in the day for the same reason, but I always got the impression they were too busy fighting each other to fight for the fans. I'm sorry you see it is sniping I'm a member of the Trust as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hornsby Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said: Talking rubbish mate honestly total codswallop re the impact of the ACV. Also complete rubbish the impact on Sheffield 3 limited the only thing that matters to Sheffield 3 limited is whether the shareholder can afford to fund the annual payments to swfc limited, but given the good relationship between the owners of both companies not going to ever be an issue is it. That's if you ignore company law. Club must pay £3 million rent. As it can't pay staff, rental stream very doubtful. That alone justifies new stadium valuation that will crash S3:ltd. Last independent value was £22.5 million, by LSH. Bout right still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Hornsby said: That's if you ignore company law. Club must pay £3 million rent. As it can't pay staff, rental stream very doubtful. That alone justifies new stadium valuation that will crash S3:ltd. Last independent value was £22.5 million, by LSH. Bout right still. What has any of that got to do with the ACV? Nothing! Even if stadium was valued at £10m it wouldn't "crash" anything. Would just be a revaluation reserve in the accounts. Again only important factor is if the owner can fun the net payment to swfc each year. Facts not fiction is always best. Edited July 1, 2021 by wellbeaten-the-owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFC Trust Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, vulva said: Good stuff. 12 ‘board’ members sounds a bit excessive, for 605 members. Have you got a big enough table? BP employ 70,000 and they’ve got a board of 10. Its a maximum of 12 (if a rule change passes at the AgM, currently max 10). It's not that many at the minute but there's space to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just now, SWFC Trust said: Its a maximum of 12 (if a rule change passes at the AgM, currently max 10). It's not that many at the minute but there's space to grow. Good to have a broad range of expertise on board so 12 sounds good if enough step forward 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFC Trust Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Grandad said: I'm sorry you see it is sniping I'm a member of the Trust as well. I don't see it as sniping. Our reading of it (with our volunteer legal guidance and experience of the FSA to support us) is different to yours. Perfectly valid questions to ask. Even if you are correct, I don't think the ACV would be meaningless. The symbolic value is worth something even ignoring all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 43 minutes ago, Hornsby said: That's if you ignore company law. Club must pay £3 million rent. As it can't pay staff, rental stream very doubtful. That alone justifies new stadium valuation that will crash S3:ltd. Last independent value was £22.5 million, by LSH. Bout right still. Is there an end game to continually spamming Owlstalk with incorrect information? Genuine question. I don't get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 39 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said: I don't see it as sniping. Our reading of it (with our volunteer legal guidance and experience of the FSA to support us) is different to yours. Perfectly valid questions to ask. Even if you are correct, I don't think the ACV would be meaningless. The symbolic value is worth something even ignoring all else. Had another question that might also make the Sheffield 3 question redundant. For these regulations who is the "owner"? Had a read of the regulations and it read to me like it's either the freeholder (Sheffield 3 limited) or in case that the leaseholders lease was at least 25 years then the owner would be deemed the leaseholder (swfc ltd) (assuming the swfc lease was 25 years?). My head hurts with the legal stuff, prefer the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahowl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Hornsby said: Last independent value was £22.5 million, by LSH. Bout right still. I presume by that statement you are a qualified member of RICS ? Pleased you are not doing valuations of houses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, Grandad said: Is there an end game to continually spamming Owlstalk with incorrect information? Genuine question. I don't get it? It's a strange on isn't it - utterly baffling to me Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said: Had another question that might also make the Sheffield 3 question redundant. For these regulations who is the "owner"? Had a read of the regulations and it read to me like it's either the freeholder (Sheffield 3 limited) or in case that the leaseholders lease was at least 25 years then the owner would be deemed the leaseholder (swfc ltd) (assuming the swfc lease was 25 years?). My head hurts with the legal stuff, prefer the numbers Read the 2019 accounts at lease term was 30 years so swfc ltd may be the deemed owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said: Read the 2019 accounts at lease term was 30 years so swfc ltd may be the deemed owner Relevent bit.... The owner of the land, for the purposes of the Assets Scheme, is defined in section 107 of the Act to mean the freeholder where there is no qualifying leaseholder, or the leaseholder most distant (in terms of intervening legal estates) from the freeholder, holding a lease granted for at least 25 years. This means that there will only ever be one qualifying tier of ownership for the Assets Scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hornsby Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Grandad said: Is there an end game to continually spamming Owlstalk with incorrect information? Genuine question. I don't get it? That's rich, you are the one who got sued for posting tosh on here. And flounced off last time sussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grandad Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: It's a strange on isn't it - utterly baffling to me I totally get where hes coming from - but its the continued use of the same phrases over and over again. It feels like planned indoctrination and when much of what has been said has been rubbished by real accountants and other professionals - its just weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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