Players Owed £12m & Possible Points Deduction

[Guest Hornsby]

8 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Half the players have now been paid, according to the Talking Wednesday podcast.

 

Whether he chose to pay those we want to keep so they don't walk away for free, or those with no remaining tires to the club who are more likely to complain to the PFA and hit us with a points deduction, who knows?

Then that's 50per cent salaries sorted, if divisive.

 

Finances a much bigger picture.

 

Like sourcing. Must watch for Land Registry on stadium and Middlewood...

yes on long lease so can sell to himself or S3:ltd, with Freeholders consent (Council won't say no).

 

 

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

Finances a much bigger picture.

 

No doubt.

 

But if true, at least there's been some movement in the right direction in terms of the outstanding wages. The thought of starting another season on minus points doesn't bear thinking about!

[owlinexile]

11 minutes ago, j0hn0508 said:

it was in the Sun, !!! probably 1/2 true 90% BS

 

With those kind of maths skills you should do the books for Chansiri...

[The Night-Owl]

36 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

No doubt.

 

But if true, at least there's been some movement in the right direction in terms of the outstanding wages. The thought of starting another season on minus points doesn't bear thinking about!

 

To be honest, a points deduction or embargo still looks likely, whether it's due to wages; accounts, refunds or something else. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

4 minutes ago, The Night-Owl said:

To be honest, a points deduction or embargo still looks likely, whether it's due to wages; accounts, refunds or something else. 

 

We're still under an embargo, aren't we?

 

I lose track. 

 

 

Another points deduction would be ridiculous.

[Manwë]

So £12m for wages (plus whatever June adds up to), a £7m payment to our landlord's lender, and we've got to build a new first team squad up at the same time refunding a few thousand fans money, while also refusing to take on new money?

 

It's a good job we have someone in charge who knows what they're doing.

[Animis]

1 hour ago, Hornsby said:

Agree.

 

Problem is , when club goes under all Administrator has is a lease with S3, not any real power.

 

Reasons Chansiri separated, FFP apart.

 

Agreed that the administrator will only look a the club's liability in regards to the lease - £3m/annum rent, full repair and maintenance and insurance. It will make the club's value fairly small and I imagine they'll be many parties looking closely at matters to see if they can pick up a bargain and the gamble will be move and buy just before admin or wait and enter an auction through the administration process.

 

For DC, if he wanted to sell before admin, the lease will only reduce the value of the club, even though he might want to use the ground lease as leverage in the overall club sale. Whatever he tries to claw back/value net present through the 30-yr lease rental, the perspective new owner will only chip from the cub sale price. This is why I think DC will hang on until the bitter end - pride and realisation that he's lost his money.

 

I think his options are rock and a hard place, which doesn't surprise me as his business performance to date has followed this pattern. Gross incompetence.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

10 hours ago, parajack said:

Read the Sun article mate,save us a debate....clearly does work....

What sun article? The England players limited company issue is nothing to do with their playing salaries is their image rights income from FA

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, Manwë said:

So £12m for wages (plus whatever June adds up to), a £7m payment to our landlord's lender, and we've got to build a new first team squad up at the same time refunding a few thousand fans money, while also refusing to take on new money?

 

It's a good job we have someone in charge who knows what they're doing.

 

We are so screwed. 

[sheffield_dave]

1 hour ago, The Night-Owl said:

 

To be honest, a points deduction or embargo still looks likely, whether it's due to wages; accounts, refunds or something else. 

 

Yep. Right now I think it's difficult to say with any absolute certainty that we'll even start the season. If we do, then I'd be even more amazed if we start it on 0 points. 

[BRADDO]

Do one DC. 

 

You're a disgrace. 

[Snake Plissken]

Bannan is leaving. 

[S36 OWL]

2 minutes ago, Snake Plissken said:

Bannan is leaving. 

 

He must go, we cannot afford to pay those knid of wages. Its stupidity. 

[Guest Hornsby]

2 hours ago, Animis said:

 

Agreed that the administrator will only look a the club's liability in regards to the lease - £3m/annum rent, full repair and maintenance and insurance. It will make the club's value fairly small and I imagine they'll be many parties looking closely at matters to see if they can pick up a bargain and the gamble will be move and buy just before admin or wait and enter an auction through the administration process.

 

For DC, if he wanted to sell before admin, the lease will only reduce the value of the club, even though he might want to use the ground lease as leverage in the overall club sale. Whatever he tries to claw back/value net present through the 30-yr lease rental, the perspective new owner will only chip from the cub sale price. This is why I think DC will hang on until the bitter end - pride and realisation that he's lost his money.

 

I think his options are rock and a hard place, which doesn't surprise me as his business performance to date has followed this pattern. Gross incompetence.

You may be right, but he needs cash to carry on .

 

And if he has it, why let it come to this?

 

Maybe Lee is right, a Thai tax play and fiscal year for firm and tax deadlines may influence this.

[parajack]

2 hours ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

What sun article? The England players limited company issue is nothing to do with their playing salaries is their image rights income from FA

The fact that they have limited Companys rather than PAYE.....why do you imagine such entities exist? did you read the article? no reason image rights cant go through PAYE...Sundays Sun....same day i posted my comments, you have to extrapolate it....the whole HMRC chase at the minute is against loans from Ltd Companys and such,which are never paid back and have massive tax advantage...also Ltd Companys are taxed less than half of the 45% on PAYE   Income is income,why if you have read the article are you arguing?

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

2 hours ago, parajack said:

The fact that they have limited Companys rather than PAYE.....why do you imagine such entities exist? did you read the article? no reason image rights cant go through PAYE...Sundays Sun....same day i posted my comments, you have to extrapolate it....the whole HMRC chase at the minute is against loans from Ltd Companys and such,which are never paid back and have massive tax advantage...also Ltd Companys are taxed less than half of the 45% on PAYE   Income is income,why if you have read the article are you arguing?

It's not though, for their playing income from the clubs they are employees and have to be paid PAYE no way round it, image rights is not as straight forward.  For us though it's quite simple all the players will be paid PAYE

[Guest]

Has the owner just sponsored Norwich ..?   BK8 

[parajack]

22 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

It's not though, for their playing income from the clubs they are employees and have to be paid PAYE no way round it, image rights is not as straight forward.  For us though it's quite simple all the players will be paid PAYE

Had this discussion b4.....the only reference to PAYE staff in our accounts in to non playing staff,you have to extrapolate that some/all?most? are PAYE by the amount of NI being paid....which is annotated...look at the personal service contracts as an example some TV personalities have come unstuck with recently,....?  they exist in the football world mate in my opinion. or similar..SWFC dont know...i just ask the Q...

[Guest]

Elev8 to make Norwich’s kit 

[The Night-Owl]

5 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

We're still under an embargo, aren't we?

 

I lose track. 

 

 

Another points deduction would be ridiculous.

 

Yep, it hasn't officially been ended but we've been told or it's been reported that it's only a matter of time until it's eased off. Same as the accounts, that we're still waiting to be registered, the fans refunds and the players wages, etc. 

 

It's best as a Wednesday fan to expect the worst, the drop off ever since the two play off seasons as been extreme. I think it's looking increasingly likely by the day, we'll get another points deduction or another embargo at the least, that's if we even start the season.

 

Even if the wages do get paid in full, there are other issues, such as the stadium; accounts, season ticket refunds as well as squad rebuilding, etc. With DC's horrendous track record ever since Wembley, I'd fear and expect the worst, whilst hoping and praying to be proved wrong. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by The Night-Owl