Be honest - which would you rather have?

[CircleSeven]

Option 2 would be lovely but I can’t see the mechanism to move from option 1 to option 2. 
I have genuinely looked at models of how to buy a club as a fan base (when bored in lockdown) and make it successful and I don’t think it could really be done. Your always going to need a ‘sugar daddy’ even if a board runs the club. Unless football changes fundamentally I’d settle for a benevolent dictatorship. 
 

DC needs to change or go of things are to improve. He won’t change. And maybe he won’t go. Fingers crossed something happens to surprise us all. 

[@owlstalk]

23 minutes ago, Sensible Soccer said:

Sadly to become a selling club you have to have assets you can sell. We don’t have any, so we will need to buy new players with potential. They cost money and again we haven’t got any.  

You would develop them in the academy and buy young upcoming players

It can 100% definitely be done - all it needs is someone to say 'do it'

[SwintonLad99]

21 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

Which Mermaid girlfriend would you rather have?:

Top half woman/ bottom half fish

Bottom half woman/ top half fish

Well ar lasses bottom half smells like Fish so yanno 

[@owlstalk]

40 minutes ago, Geedee said:

Out of the two options its pretty obvious what people would prefer.

 

But a load of parish councillor types enjoying their 15 mins of fame at ' fan engagement meetings' will achieve very little imo.

 

Things like catering , half time entertainment etc are all minor issues with a simple solution. Find which similar size club to Wednesday does a good job of it and copy them. No committees needed just common business sense.

 

 

Nobody is talking about committees

But regular fan meetings to collaborate and work together can be done amazingly well - see Norwich for one example

[@owlstalk]

17 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think football is the thing that players do with the ball. Lets concentrate on that for a few days eh?

Clear off into the threads about that then - simple

[@owlstalk]

12 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Neither really. Option 1 hasn’t worked, but Option 2 is basically an idealistic wish list that can’t be implemented in practice. 

Norwich is one example that it can be done

[CircleSeven]

Just now, SwintonLad99 said:

Well ar lasses bottom half smells like Fish so yanno 

I’ve been married for over 20 years now so I can’t even remember the scent of my Mrs!

I vaguely remember at some point associating her lower half with fun but it’s such a distant memory I can’t exactly remember why. 

As for the dog question I’d go dogs body/ mans head. 
Mermaid wise either would be a win!

[S36 OWL]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

You would develop them in the academy and buy young upcoming players

It can 100% definitely be done - all it needs is someone to say 'do it'

 

Barnsley have proved it can work. 

[WhiteOwl91]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

You would develop them in the academy and buy young upcoming players

It can 100% definitely be done - all it needs is someone to say 'do it'

The new rules around academies dont help, with top tier clubs and their academies basically able to nab players for a pittance when theyre young due to the category we are in, or rather not in. 

 

Yes id rather that than what we have now, but still. 

 

 

[CircleSeven]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Norwich is one example that it can be done

So how do we move to that model. Are we still waiting for someone to buy us but it’s just someone better?

[WhiteOwl91]

Just now, S36 OWL said:

 

Barnsley have proved it can work. 

Barnsley have been relegated from the Champ twice in 7 years, and would have been relegated a 3rd had Wigan not gone into administration at the last minute. 

 

Lets not pin them up as some great example of how to run a football club. When they had Hourihane, Winnall etc they lost them all for peanuts due to not having long contracts. 

 

They're having 1 good season, which can happen, but if they dont go up, what suggests they do it again? Players are going to want paying for their success this season, Barnsley wont pay that if they dont go up.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Norwich is one example that it can be done

Norwich have had 3 promotions and 3 relegations in the last 8 seasons though. Which means they’ve been flipping between being on PL money and getting parachute payments. If someone gave us £30m in parachute payments then I’m sure we could implement all of those things and still be successful without the input of a rich owner. 
 

But that is the exact problem. It creates a closed shop where the only way to break the status quo is for someone to chuck money at it. And if it doesn’t work you end up like us or Derby. 
 

The system is broken and needs to change first and foremost. The club is caught between a rock and a hard place unless that happens.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

Norwich have had 3 promotions and 3 relegations in the last 8 seasons though.  

As a result of them doing what I've been talking about though mate!

Agree the system is broken but there are ways to build your club 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

As a result of them doing what I've been talking about though mate!

Agree the system is broken but there are ways to build your club 

But the problem is, how do we get from right where we are now to where they are. You need money.. if we try option 2 without someone spending on players, so we’re effectively sourcing young players on the cheap and hoping they come good, that doesn’t sound much different to Milan’s time here. We’d be a bottom half Championship side, maybe a Champ-League 1 yo yo team. And I know that’s where we are at already.

 

The best way would have been for us to have gone up in 2015-17, then switch to the Norwich model. Maybe become a PL-Champ yo yo club for a while then build the club from there. But we didn’t make it. I can’t see much of a route to where we want to go without spending. And if we just settle for being a lower half second tier team then the apathy in the fan base will just continue even if we were able to make some superficial changes to improve people’s experiences.

[CircleSeven]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

As a result of them doing what I've been talking about though mate!

Agree the system is broken but there are ways to build your club 

Norwich are a plc with 8000 or so shareholders with Delia and her husband as majority shareholders. In most respects Delia and her husband are still ‘owners’ in control of the club. It’s just that they are way better at it than Chansiri. How could we move from where we are to there? Can DC just decide to do a better job or does he need to sell? 

[WhiteOwl91]

5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

As a result of them doing what I've been talking about though mate!

Agree the system is broken but there are ways to build your club 

To add though, for the 2015 play offs they had basically a prime Gary Hooper sat on the bench in the play off final lol! Thats how good their squad was.

They definitely weren't going for the 'build' phase at that point, they have benefitted from parachute payments since about 2013 ongoing. 

 

I suspect if we go option 2, we have to accept there will be 'bomb' seasons where we'd do nothing and wonder why everything is so bad (like now..)and not demand change and play the longer game. 

 

Chansiri made a mess by not using his initial investment to set up for this. So hard if you dont spend to accumulate. Shame he spent on has been rather than could be. 

I.e. clubs with money will buy good up and coming players for what is a pittance to them, but to us now its a lot and we risk being outbid regularly. 

 

FFS

[Gob_Bluth]

35 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think football is the thing that players do with the ball. Lets concentrate on that for a few days eh?

 

What you doing logging on here then?

 

Surely take your own advice, log off and concentrate on the game on saturday

 

Bizaare logic there fella 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, CircleSeven said:

Norwich are a plc with 8000 or so shareholders with Delia and her husband as majority shareholders. In most respects Delia and her husband are still ‘owners’ in control of the club. It’s just that they are way better at it than Chansiri. How could we move from where we are to there? Can DC just decide to do a better job or does he need to sell? 

 

 

Well all it takes is for Chansiri to wake up one morning and think 'hang on... what have I been doing this last 5 years? I've been doing it all wrong?'  then jump out of bed, get on the phone to Trevor and tell him to assemble a super group of fans, influential fans of the club, local businesses who are potential box holders and sponsors and start the ball rolling

 

But mean it

And be relentless at being brilliant at it

 

Fans want promotion obviously but ultimately if we have a team we can be proud of, some home grown talent, great facilities, fab catering, amazing levels of customer service (apple/amazon levels that is - not just fake nonsense), and some exciting new initiatives to get behind then our fans will be happy/happier, the grumbles will subside, the complaints will stop and we can start to get back to having a club to be proud of.

On the pitch - the team could be rebuilt using upcoming ambitious players mixed with home grown lads from the Academy

New ideas could be embraced regarding advertisers and sponsors and box holders - wouldn't take much to get them back onside if the proposition is exciting enough

And then an aggressive positive forward thinking ambitious drive to promote matches to get people back, get new people into the ground and grow the fanbase

The above isn't just a mad crazy ideal world dream - but it should be the absolute basic minimum a football club should be doing right now

ESPECIALLY now

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

 

 

I suspect if we go option 2, we have to accept there will be 'bomb' seasons where we'd do nothing and wonder why everything is so bad (like now..)and not demand change and play the longer game.   

Definitely!

Although if you think about it, Chansiri could have been cracking on with it for the last 5 years instead of messing about like he has done, and as for demanding change and our fans kicking off if he did he could have been cracking on with it and just ignoring the fan backlash as he has been doing the last 5 years

Basically it's 5 years that's been wasted

He could easily have built a community driven club, employing exciting new ideas to engage the fans and new fans and there would have been way more goodwill than there is right now

[Sensible Soccer]

25 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

You would develop them in the academy and buy young upcoming players

It can 100% definitely be done - all it needs is someone to say 'do it'

You need a scouting network to find the players. We don’t have one and it’s not easy to establish on overnight. 
 

our academy needs investment if it is to attract the right standard of player too. 
 

I agree it’s doable, but there’s a lot more to it than just saying let’s do it.