Be honest - which would you rather have?

[Sefton owl]

why is this even a question? 

[Mid Wicket]

The state we are in now option 2. Imo its got to be run this way over the next few years, 5 at least to turn it round. Then when you are able to sell players at a profit reinvest in the team.

[Devonstrix]

25 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Come on now... don't start descending into those levels of nonsense - you're better than that

We may disagree on a few things but I respect you as a poster and always enjoy reading your opinions and thoughts about our club

Just a light hearted jest Neil, no malice intended and thanks for your comments. Just trying to remain optimistic in all the gloom around our beloved club at the moment. Have a good feeling about Saturday. Hope I’m right!

[striker]

2 minutes ago, Jakes Grandad said:

The state we are in now option 2. Imo its got to be run this way over the next few years, 5 at least to turn it round. Then when you are able to sell players at a profit reinvest in the team.

Hard to sell players when contract lengths are so short. Value plummets as contract end gets closer and most of our squad seem perpetually in the last year of their contract. 

 

Chansiri's approach to recruitment is akin to leasing a car. Get a player to put on the pitch in the short term but with no real asset value.

[adelphi1867]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

OPTION ONE
What we have now as a football club (not talking about relegation or even the current chairman specifically but how the club operates)

 

OR

OPTION TWO
A club ran sustainably as a selling club that reinvests player sales into the Academy and young upcoming players, where the club and fans work hand in hand to create the most positive experience possible for Wednesday fans.

Where the chairman (and a board ideally) don't just throw something at the fans and say 'here.. pay for this' but instead say (at one of the many regular meetings) 'What is it you would like as fans of this club' and then go away and act on it, and provide it (e.g. better facilities, ideal kit designs, better choice of catering, pre and half time entertainment, ideas on fan engagement and how to attract more fans to the matches on a regular basis, and how to ensure the local young un's choose your club instead of Man United and Chelsea etc, and ideas for all other aspects of the club etc)

Option Two would see the immediate striving for promotion at all costs gone, and instead take the long term approach where fans come first, and that you instead focus on the actual experience of being a Wednesday fan and build from there, hoping that the long term build will eventually build a team that can challenge for promotions
 

 

 

 

 

Both options are totally doable and can be put into practice TODAY if there was a desire to

Which would you prefer?
 

Option 2.

We have been trying option 1 for the last 40 years and look where it has got us.

[Mid Wicket]

3 minutes ago, striker said:

Hard to sell players when contract lengths are so short. Value plummets as contract end gets closer and most of our squad seem perpetually in the last year of their contract. 

 

Chansiri's approach to recruitment is akin to leasing a car. Get a player to put on the pitch in the short term but with no real asset value.

I agree Chansiri has been hanging on to players and letting their value plummet. In fact he's also been paying over the odds for players for example Reach and Rhodes who we could never sell and get the money back. 

[Costello 77]

The club is set up the way it is because Chansiri knows nothing about football and while he's here there's no chance of option 2.

Once he's gone the club is going to need the mother of all resets and I think that the support will have some understanding/patience with their expectations.

It can be done but we'll have to be dead lucky on new ownership.

[Errol Flashman]

 

Dictatorships all right if you've got an expert running the show.

 

We ant.

[Gob_Bluth]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

Strange thing to be talking about when we've got the biggest game of the season on Saturday.

Come on you Owls!

 

Talking about football on football forum, imagine that! 

[@owlstalk]

15 minutes ago, Devonstrix said:

Just a light hearted jest Neil, no malice intended and thanks for your comments. Just trying to remain optimistic in all the gloom around our beloved club at the moment. Have a good feeling about Saturday. Hope I’m right!

 

Me too my friend - imagine if we pulled it off and stopped up 
Would be incredible!

[SwintonLad99]

Which would you rather be?

man with a dogs head 

dog with a mans head

 

[Geedee]

Out of the two options its pretty obvious what people would prefer.

 

But a load of parish councillor types enjoying their 15 mins of fame at ' fan engagement meetings' will achieve very little imo.

 

Things like catering , half time entertainment etc are all minor issues with a simple solution. Find which similar size club to Wednesday does a good job of it and copy them. No committees needed just common business sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sensible Soccer]

Sadly to become a selling club you have to have assets you can sell. We don’t have any, so we will need to buy new players with potential. They cost money and again we haven’t got any. 
 

this would have been sensible as a business model when DC started but it takes time to develop your assets and add value to them.

 

difficult to move to option 2 but it is obviously the preferred one for us to be sustainable. 
 

I think DM is the right manager to develop talent so let’s hope he can get a tune out of what we have left once the masses leave. 

[Plonk]

We are funny as fans though aren’t we? Most of my life we’ve been saying if only a rich owner would come in a spend a load of money on good players. 
I suppose the message looking back is be careful what you wish for. 
im not sure B is now doable as it would need a complete rethink by the owner. He’s not showing any signs of doing that. 

[CircleSeven]

17 minutes ago, SwintonLad99 said:

Which would you rather be?

man with a dogs head 

dog with a mans head

 

Which Mermaid girlfriend would you rather have?:

Top half woman/ bottom half fish

Bottom half woman/ top half fish

[Dutch McLovin]

Option 1. 

 

Just with someone who knows what hes doing not Chansiri 

[Treborowl]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

OPTION ONE
What we have now as a football club (not talking about relegation or even the current chairman specifically but how the club operates)

 

OR

OPTION TWO
A club ran sustainably as a selling club that reinvests player sales into the Academy and young upcoming players, where the club and fans work hand in hand to create the most positive experience possible for Wednesday fans.

Where the chairman (and a board ideally) don't just throw something at the fans and say 'here.. pay for this' but instead say (at one of the many regular meetings) 'What is it you would like as fans of this club' and then go away and act on it, and provide it (e.g. better facilities, ideal kit designs, better choice of catering, pre and half time entertainment, ideas on fan engagement and how to attract more fans to the matches on a regular basis, and how to ensure the local young un's choose your club instead of Man United and Chelsea etc, and ideas for all other aspects of the club etc)

Option Two would see the immediate striving for promotion at all costs gone, and instead take the long term approach where fans come first, and that you instead focus on the actual experience of being a Wednesday fan and build from there, hoping that the long term build will eventually build a team that can challenge for promotions
 

 

 

 

 

Both options are totally doable and can be put into practice TODAY if there was a desire to

Which would you prefer?
 

Obviously Option 2, assuming that wise spending and profiting from the development of young players would eventually take us back to the Premiership.

Only then, ( and some clubs have to be), do we become an honours chasing club with money to spend, that is to say our money, not borrowed.

[Nero]

37 minutes ago, Gob_Bluth said:

 

Talking about football on football forum, imagine that! 

I think football is the thing that players do with the ball. Lets concentrate on that for a few days eh?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

Neither really. Option 1 hasn’t worked, but Option 2 is basically an idealistic wish list that can’t be implemented in practice.

 

The words sustainable and football finances are completely incompatible. There’s nothing Wednesday can do about that, the club don’t set the landscape in which we operate. Whilever the gap between first and second tier in terms of revenue is this large then there’s always going to be upward pressure on costs at Championship level which makes it impossible to run the thing with balanced books.

 

I know people can point to Brentford or Barnsley as teams that have had modest success trying option 2, but they still needed initial investment to get that model working, and there are still risks to it (e.g. not sourcing good players). In addition, the transfer market is a zero sum game so if every club try the Brentford strategy then it no longer works.. would cost more and more to buy the players they currently go after. Also neither of them have even been promoted although that might change this month.

 

Looking at Premier League level, there aren’t any clubs reliant on their academies, all of them spend on players. It’s part of the game and you’re unlikely to be successful without investing in transfers, for which you need a wealthy benefactor bankrolling you at this level.

 

I’d basically go with Option 1 plus. Invest like DC did, but do it more wisely. And I know that’s easy to say.. but stuff like if it’s not working then change advisors rather than sticking with the same failed ones. Have some sort of cost control and don’t break the wage structure in a ridiculous way with new contracts. Only offer contracts beyond a certain length to players under a certain age, don’t pay fees for players over a certain age with no resale. Don’t charge ridiculous ticket prices.. as the chairman said ‘we pay for nothing’. People take offence to that and take it literally but he means that the revenue doesn’t cover the costs which he pays... should make decisions on what ticket prices or sponsorship rates should be based on market forces rather than exploiting peoples love for the club. Would also be no harm in fan representation on the board, so at least the club is clued in to it even if they can’t or don’t want to act on it.

[WhiteOwl91]

3 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Neither really. Option 1 hasn’t worked, but Option 2 is basically an idealistic wish list that can’t be implemented in practice.

 

The words sustainable and football finances are completely incompatible. There’s nothing Wednesday can do about that, the club don’t set the landscape in which we operate. Whilever the gap between first and second tier in terms of revenue is this large then there’s always going to be upward pressure on costs at Championship level which makes it impossible to run the thing with balanced books.

 

I know people can point to Brentford or Barnsley as teams that have had modest success trying option 2, but they still needed initial investment to get that model working, and there are still risks to it (e.g. not sourcing good players). In addition, the transfer market is a zero sum game so if every club try the Brentford strategy then it no longer works.. would cost more and more to buy the players they currently go after. Also neither of them have even been promoted although that might change this month.

 

Looking at Premier League level, there aren’t any clubs reliant on their academies, all of them spend on players. It’s part of the game and you’re unlikely to be successful without investing in transfers, for which you need a wealthy benefactor bankrolling you at this level.

 

I’d basically go with Option 1 plus. Invest like DC did, but do it more wisely. And I know that’s easy to say.. but stuff like if it’s not working then change advisors rather than sticking with the same failed ones. Have some sort of cost control and don’t break the wage structure in a ridiculous way with new contracts. Only offer contracts beyond a certain length to players under a certain age, don’t pay fees for players over a certain age with no resale. Don’t charge ridiculous ticket prices.. as the chairman said ‘we pay for nothing’. People take offence to that and take it literally but he means that the revenue doesn’t cover the costs which he pays... should make decisions on what ticket prices or sponsorship rates should be based on market forces rather than exploiting peoples love for the club. Would also be no harm in fan representation on the board, so at least the club is clued in to it even if they can’t or don’t want to act on it.

Good post.

 

Not to mention in Barnsleys case, had Wigan not gone into administration their approach would have got them yet another relegation to L1 last season, which in footballing terms was deserved. 

 

This is 1 season where they've done really well, but if they dont go up, does it happen again? I really doubt it. 

 

Brentford is often the one used, but i dont see many other clubs 'doing a brentford' successfully in the main.

The top 8 of the league is filled with clubs paying big money (Barnsley aside), Brentford now pay reasonably and the rest is littered with ex Prem clubs. Even Reading payed £5-7m for Joao from us.