Halve your wages

[scram]

6 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I mean...if they have relegation clauses, then this would happen anyway, right?

 

If there are no such clauses - and he has threatened this - then he is even more of a f*cking idiot than we all thought and he will be paying them their full wages whether he likes it or not...unless he has no money to pay them.

 

 

Which is why this is just a strawman

 

The players know he cannot break their contracts and they know the second he does then they become free agents.

 

 

[Devonstrix]

7 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Which is why this is just a strawman

 

The players know he cannot break their contracts and they know the second he does then they become free agents.

 

 

Yep, and anybody like to hazard a guess at how much the likes of poor Adam Reach will get as a signing on fee from the next club he goes to, having swanned about all season here. 

[StudentOwl]

3 minutes ago, Devonstrix said:

Yep, and anybody like to hazard a guess at how much the likes of poor Adam Reach will get as a signing on fee from the next club he goes to, having swanned about all season here. 

Still doesn't justify us being of incapable of paying wages on time?

 

[NorthernOwl]

5 hours ago, scram said:

 

If a championship player is on 550pw then it's a young player finding his way in the game

 

All the more reason to knuckle down and try to better themselves either here or elsewhere

 

But as we know the majority of our players are on incredible wages and have one of the most coveted "jobs" in the world by any measure. 

 

They are incredibly protected and could only have wage interference if they agreed to it so the hyperbole is disingenuous. 

 

I think it's unconscionable to make excuses for deliberate lack of effort from the players

 

That is between them and their conscience were it to be the case

 

I really don't think it's as simple as players not bothering to try because they are not get their wages on time.

 

It's inevitable that mismanagement at that level will create an environment that is not conducive to success.

 

Anyobe who has worked for a poorly managed, struggling business will understand. People don't perform their best in that situation.

[Hookowl]

10 hours ago, Big Malc said:

Just as a purely hypothetical question, if you were an SWFC player and the chairman had said to you that if you embarrassed him by getting relegated he would halve your wages and if you had a problem with it, you would be free to find yourself a new club - how would you perform for the rest of the season?

 

As a purely hypothetical answer...................I'd check my contract.............

[Devonstrix]

6 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Still doesn't justify us being of incapable of paying wages on time?

 

That’s true.
Nothing I’ve heard so far justifies players not putting a shift in thus relegating the team that we all support either. Reach is a classic example of somebody who gives the impression that not only is he already 'on the beach', he’s already thinking of banking his next big signing on fee and pulling on a different shirt. 

[BIG D]

Wasn’t Urhoghide offered a new contract?

If he’d signed that I’m sure he wouldn’t be on £550 a week. 

[kirksandallowl]

I think some people in this thread need to buy a dictionary and look up the word “Contract” smh

[dfoster]

Sorry to do the ITK thing but I've seen a contract of one our current first team sqaud. Obvs not saying who.

 

The player in question's salary halves if we get relegated. There are no releases whatsoever from the player's perspective but the club can unilaterally extend for 12mths.

 

Also, there was no signing on fee.

 

I am a major critic of chansiri in many ways but the truth is that he / Paixao have negotiated v successfully and got all the power within the agreement.

 

Also, i am told that DC does not do release clauses or signing on fees *at all* so if that's right, again, he's a bit shrewder and more frugal these days.

[Owl Be Back]

There are a lot of Boxer's on here.

 

I don't mean in the pugilistic sense.

[SallyCinnamon]

Why do people think that the players aren’t trying? It’s not as black and white as they’re not getting paid so they’re not trying. Or they’re getting paid so they are giving their all. 

 

They are trying. They’re not going out to lose.

 

But when you create a toxic environment where wages are delayed - it doesn’t create a winning culture. Something is the sub-conscious triggers which puts you at an immediate disadvantage to other clubs. In a league of fine margins, things like this make all the difference. Two clubs in this league are failing to pay players on time. Both clubs are fighting to stay in the division next week in relegation decider. Coincidence?

 

Its not like it’s a one off. It’s happening every couple of months consistently. It’s demoralising and not good for team spirit. I said it in another thread - if my  employer is consistently paying my wages late. I might take a bit longer to send that urgent email, I might have an extra 5 minutes in bed and I might take an extra 20 minutes for lunch. Sure I’ll carry on doing the job I’m contracted to do, but sure as hell won’t be as motivated or as desperate to impress. 

By consistently messing with players wages, the chairman is creating an uncertain and unmotivated workforce which is putting us at a distinct disadvantage in games. That 5% is missing.

 

Also look at it like this. Only takes 1 player to be pissed off his wages have been delayed again for the rest of the squad to suffer. Domino effect.

 

 

[NorthernOwl]

15 minutes ago, Devonstrix said:

That’s true.
Nothing I’ve heard so far justifies players not putting a shift in thus relegating the team that we all support either. Reach is a classic example of somebody who gives the impression that not only is he already 'on the beach', he’s already thinking of banking his next big signing on fee and pulling on a different shirt. 

 

And yet Reach has played virtually every game this season under 4 different managers. Strange that he keeps getting picked if he's not trying.

[NorthernOwl]

2 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Why do people think that the players aren’t trying? It’s not as black and white as they’re not getting paid so they’re not trying. Or they’re getting paid so they are giving their all. 

 

They are trying. They’re not going out to lose.

 

But when you create a toxic environment where wages are delayed - it doesn’t create a winning culture. Something is the sub-conscious triggers which puts you at an immediate disadvantage to other clubs. In a league of fine margins, things like this make all the difference. Two clubs in this league are failing to pay players on time. Both clubs are fighting to stay in the division next week in relegation decider. Coincidence?

 

Its not like it’s a one off. It’s happening every couple of months consistently. It’s demoralising and not good for team spirit. I said it in another thread - if my  employer is consistently paying my wages late. I might take a bit longer to send that urgent email, I might have an extra 5 minutes in bed and I might take an extra 20 minutes for lunch. Sure I’ll carry on doing the job I’m contracted to do, but sure as hell won’t be as motivated or as desperate to impress. 

By consistently messing with players wages, the chairman is creating an uncertain and unmotivated workforce which is putting us at a distinct disadvantage in games. That 5% is missing.

 

Also look at it like this. Only takes 1 player to be pissed off his wages have been delayed again for the rest of the squad to suffer. Domino effect.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

The idea that the players are making a conscious decision to not try just isn't true in my opinion.

 

As you say the situation mirrors Derby, Forest earlier in the season prior to them appointing a top manager. There are countless other examples you could give. Players don't perform their best when a club is in crisis.

[Owl Be Back]

7 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

But when you create a toxic environment where wages are delayed - it doesn’t create a winning culture.

 

 

Many of us have talked about culture on here a few times and it being an issue; often just getting laughed out and shouted down by the S6 intelligentsia. This erosion of acceptable standards and professionalism has been going on for at least 3 years now and its down to Chansiri f*cking around, 'managing' from afar, people no longer having pride in what they do and so forth. Ultimately, it's why no manager will ever make a material difference and why players joining the club get 'dragged down'.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Owl Be Back

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, Owl Be Back said:

 

Many of us have talked about culture on here a few times and it being an issue; often just getting laughed out and shouted down by the S6 intelligentsia. This erosion of acceptable standards and professionalism has been going on for at least 3 years now and its down to Chansiri f*cking around, 'managing' from afar, people no longer having pride in what they do and so forth. Ultimately, it's why no manager will ever make a material difference and why players joining the club get 'dragged down'.

Absolutely. Join the dots people. I know we don’t like Monk but when he kept banging on about winning culture, why do you think that is? Chansiri hasn’t created a professional environment.

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Nailed it.

 

The idea that the players are making a conscious decision to not try just isn't true in my opinion.

 

As you say the situation mirrors Derby, Forest earlier in the season prior to them appointing a top manager. There are countless other examples you could give. Players don't perform their best when a club is in crisis.

Absolutely. Most clubs who have off the field issues also struggle on the pitch. Wednesday aren’t an anomaly here. 
 

See Leeds when they plummeted, Leicester all those years ago, Portsmouth, Bolton, Bury, Derby etc etc. 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Absolutely. Join the dots people. I know we don’t like Monk but when he kept banging on about winning culture, why do you think that is? Chansiri hasn’t created a professional environment.

 

 

It's not just Monk that's said it either

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

The entertainment industry is a peculiar animal. It is run by Agents, Theater owners, Film companies, Opera and Ballet companies, Gig theatres and even open air venues. Some remuneration is built into the industry in the form of Royalties but by enlarge investment and advanced bookings take care of the pay streams of the (Players).

 

So when a pandemic strikes pay streams, with the exception of Royalties, dry up very quickly.

 

This is particularly prevalent related to Football/Sports Players in relation to those in the lower end of the pyramid.

 

At the top end of the Pyramid the waters are muddied by the Super rich owners, TV and MM companies along with agents, third owners et al. Many of the clubs are sold a pup and are disappointed with their purchase so seek to move the Pup on but at the same inflated wages and a lesser unsuspecting club picks up the tab.Rank bad players can be in tier 5 but yet driving around in Bentley Coupe. 

 

The game is money driven, that is a given. But a wage structure for players without the need for agents needs sorting where enhanced performance is rewarded and the reverse is applied for players in decline with commensurate pension schemes. The grubby deals should and must be ended.

 

One ruling body needs to be re-established with equity for all. This means burn the premiership and end the back handers paid to the Leagues, FA and referees on their £10k + per week. 

 

We can not expect these bodies to make these moves of their own vocation so we must give them some encouragement. Manchester United fans made a bit of a start but remember they won't want to push so hard as to disturb their enhanced status in the game !  

        

[Big Malc]

I’m not for one minute saying that when the players were told this they thought “Well I’m just not going to put a shift in”.  But we’re in a relegation battle and we need the whole club to be pulling in the same direction.

 

I’m also not talking about relegation release clauses here - I’m talking about the chairman getting the team in a zoom call and telling them that no matter what their contract says, if they get relegated he is halving their wages.  He knows he technically can’t do it, but he’s saying it anyway.  And he’s willing to let players walk away for nothing because they’ve failed his target of play-offs as a minimum.  
 

It’s a massively destabilising move that no-one with any competence should consider making.  But here we are.

[edinburghowl]

When Hearts ex-owner was equally distant, and just prior to the club going into admin and him leaving the club high and dry and just days away from death, wages were late being paid almost every month. 
 

The players and staff managed to qualify for Europe, win a major trophy beating a Celtic team including Gary Hooper and Glenn Loovens in the semi final, and then beat local rival Hibs 5-1 in the final of the Cup at Hampden.
 

They were subject to constant talk of pay cuts and being told to find work elsewhere. Most of them left at the end of the season, the difference being that squad showed leadership, pride, passion, and were professional in their performances.

 

The situation with the owner at Wednesday is a disgrace but some of these players are not far off the chairman in terms of their disgracing Sheffield Wednesday this season.
 

If some of them don’t try and it affects their performances then that says more about them and their character and professionalism more than anything. It’s a situation affecting many clubs at the moment, several are struggling to pay their vastly inflated wages with the pandemic and drop in revenues.
 

Remarkably they still might have one chance to right their wrongs of the season and put in a performance at the weekend. It is out of our hands but hopefully it can be enough. 
 

The damage done to club and it’s reputation is fully on the chairman, everyone knows he has to go, but the players have a responsibility too. So far they have failed miserably