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Council work damaged Sheffield WW1 site


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1 hour ago, REDOWL said:

Home Guard on the Spion Kop n 1943.

 

Screenshot_2021-05-01-17-22-02-027 (334x450).jpg


We’re doomed. Doooomed.

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The owls are not what they seem.

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4 minutes ago, Neal M said:


We’re doomed. Doooomed.

You're maybe right mate but I hope not. Some of the spirit of those in the photo would be welcome if we go to the very last game.

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7 minutes ago, Neal M said:


Not every one, but the battalion did suffer huge casualties. Over 500 (out of around 1,100) were killed, invalided or missing during that initial attack at the Somme. More died as that battle progressed.

 

The Music Hall act “Stainless Stephen” was one of the survivors. 

 

I'd got it in my head it was all of them. Sure there used to be a plaque in Weston Park. 

 

 

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Just a bloke. Being dragged along in a world that moves too quick for it's own good.

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Found some links:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_City_Battalion  

http://www.pals.org.uk/sheffield/ 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sheffield-Pals-Battalion-Lancaster-Regiment/dp/1848843445 A book, the cover below.

51HQY9SxWDL._SX346_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg 

 

pals-at-redmires.jpg 

 

A great song about the history of it:

Found these too:

 

My great grandad would have probably been in it if he wasn't a miner. I'll do another post about Dönitz etc. in the next few days as well.

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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How do you physic yourself up to walk/charge into a hail of bullets?  The fear they must have felt just before the order was given must have been extraordinary.  

 

Could you do it?

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I reckon I'd be more likely to be shot running the other way.

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Just a bloke. Being dragged along in a world that moves too quick for it's own good.

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I'm finding this thread so interesting, these are the memories of someone else  with some football rivalry in the last paragraph.

 

Screenshot_2021-05-01-20-42-47-317 (266x600).jpg

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41 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

How do you physic yourself up to walk/charge into a hail of bullets?  The fear they must have felt just before the order was given must have been extraordinary.  

 

Could you do it?

It was so wrong. At least they should have let them charge. 
 

Lions led by donkeys. 

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19 minutes ago, REDOWL said:

I'm finding this thread so interesting, these are the memories of someone else  with some football rivalry in the last paragraph.

 

Screenshot_2021-05-01-20-42-47-317 (266x600).jpg

 

Could hardly read your post so went and found it and copied and pasted it, interesting little story.  Thanks for finding it 

 

 

 

My War in Sheffield

 

by DENIS LUMB

 

Contributed by 

DENIS LUMB

People in story: 

Eric Denis lumb. ( DENIS)

Location of story: 

Sheffield

Article ID: 

A2120095

Contributed on: 

09 December 2003

My War in SHEFFIELD.
By Denis Lumb.

Thursday the 12th of December 1940 was a normal schoolday and nothing different to an eight and half year old until 7pm.
At 5.30pm my dad Eric left for work. He was a skilled electrician on the arc furnaces at Thomas Firth and John Browns Sheffield Steel Works. Because they were making steel for the war he was exempt from the armed forces and was employed to keep the electric furnaces working 24 hours a day.He was on the night shift 6pm to 6am.
At home my mother Doris was repairing a damaged easy chair on the table and my 15 month old brother Allen was asleep in his pram. He was suffering with measles.I was reading my comic.
About 7pm the sirens sounded and we put on the light in the cellar and i released the bolts on the connecting doors.These doors had been put in to connect all twelve houses on one side of Rock Lane in Pitsmoor,Sheffield. Two of the cellars had been reinforced so that all the family's could get together in safe cellars. Only one problem, Allen had got the measles and we could not mix with the other children,so we sat at the bottom of our cellar steps on our own.
All was well.The bombs started to drop quite soon and they got nearer and louder and about 8pm one bomb was dropped some 50 yds away from our home in Fitzalan Street. Our light went out and all the pots,pans and food on the shelves on the cellar head came down the stone steps on to us.This was my first experiance of fear in the war.We struggled to find candles and matches. Some one from the reinforced cellars came to see if we were ok but did not ask us to join them because of the measles.The bombs kept dropping and were all round us.It appears that the bombs were meant for the steelworks some two miles away from our home but they were off target and dropped on our homes and the city centre.
My dad was on fire watch on the roof of the steel works and could hear and see the bombs dropping on Pitsmoor.
After midnight things quietened down a little in Pitsmoor but bombs could be heard going off until 2am.By then we had no electricity,no water and no gas. my dad then came home to see if we were ok,as he had heard that many houses had been hit near by.We were shaken but alive.Many people did not survive.We had all our windows broken and dirt and soot was everywhere.
Around 4am the all clear sounded and i was put to bed while my parents cleared up the broken glass.
Next morning in daylight the scene was terrible.Everywere you could see rubble,mud dirt, burst sand bags,broken glass,smoke coming from the homes that had been hit,water shooting in the air from burst pipes and occasionally a delayed time bomb going off, an unforgettable sight.
By 9am everyone was clearing up and helping each other.We children could not go to school and did not for about 3 months.However we started to collect pieces of shrapnel from the bombs and shells,these became our prizes of war.This shrapnel along with a burnt out incendry bomb which had been put out by my dad on the roof of Firth Browns were on show on our mantle piece for some time to come.
By lunch time the water bowsers were on the street and we all queued with buckets,kettles and anything that would hold water.Later stand pipes were erected and we had to get water from them.
On that night of the 12th of December 1940 nearly 300 hundred planes attacked Sheffield and over 700 people died.Many were injured.At least 12 bombs dropped in a radius of 100 yards from our home.We had been the lucky ones.
On the 15th the bombers came back and this time the steel works were hit along with more homes but not as severe as on the 12th.We had gone to live at my aunt's home in Walkley and were outside watching the bombs exploding on the works some 6 miles away.
in the space of 3 days that was My War.After that Sheffield only had sparodic raids and an odd bomb being jetisoned by the planes on or after raids on Manchester and Liverpool.
on a lighter note all my friends and family were avid Sheffield Wednesday fans and when we found out that Sheffield United had been bombed,we all cheered and for some time we sang a little ditty about Hitler bombing United.

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12 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Could hardly read your post so went and found it and copied and pasted it, interesting little story.  Thanks for finding it 

 

 

 

My War in Sheffield

 

by DENIS LUMB

 

Contributed by 

DENIS LUMB

People in story: 

Eric Denis lumb. ( DENIS)

Location of story: 

Sheffield

Article ID: 

A2120095

Contributed on: 

09 December 2003

My War in SHEFFIELD.
By Denis Lumb.

Thursday the 12th of December 1940 was a normal schoolday and nothing different to an eight and half year old until 7pm.
At 5.30pm my dad Eric left for work. He was a skilled electrician on the arc furnaces at Thomas Firth and John Browns Sheffield Steel Works. Because they were making steel for the war he was exempt from the armed forces and was employed to keep the electric furnaces working 24 hours a day.He was on the night shift 6pm to 6am.
At home my mother Doris was repairing a damaged easy chair on the table and my 15 month old brother Allen was asleep in his pram. He was suffering with measles.I was reading my comic.
About 7pm the sirens sounded and we put on the light in the cellar and i released the bolts on the connecting doors.These doors had been put in to connect all twelve houses on one side of Rock Lane in Pitsmoor,Sheffield. Two of the cellars had been reinforced so that all the family's could get together in safe cellars. Only one problem, Allen had got the measles and we could not mix with the other children,so we sat at the bottom of our cellar steps on our own.
All was well.The bombs started to drop quite soon and they got nearer and louder and about 8pm one bomb was dropped some 50 yds away from our home in Fitzalan Street. Our light went out and all the pots,pans and food on the shelves on the cellar head came down the stone steps on to us.This was my first experiance of fear in the war.We struggled to find candles and matches. Some one from the reinforced cellars came to see if we were ok but did not ask us to join them because of the measles.The bombs kept dropping and were all round us.It appears that the bombs were meant for the steelworks some two miles away from our home but they were off target and dropped on our homes and the city centre.
My dad was on fire watch on the roof of the steel works and could hear and see the bombs dropping on Pitsmoor.
After midnight things quietened down a little in Pitsmoor but bombs could be heard going off until 2am.By then we had no electricity,no water and no gas. my dad then came home to see if we were ok,as he had heard that many houses had been hit near by.We were shaken but alive.Many people did not survive.We had all our windows broken and dirt and soot was everywhere.
Around 4am the all clear sounded and i was put to bed while my parents cleared up the broken glass.
Next morning in daylight the scene was terrible.Everywere you could see rubble,mud dirt, burst sand bags,broken glass,smoke coming from the homes that had been hit,water shooting in the air from burst pipes and occasionally a delayed time bomb going off, an unforgettable sight.
By 9am everyone was clearing up and helping each other.We children could not go to school and did not for about 3 months.However we started to collect pieces of shrapnel from the bombs and shells,these became our prizes of war.This shrapnel along with a burnt out incendry bomb which had been put out by my dad on the roof of Firth Browns were on show on our mantle piece for some time to come.
By lunch time the water bowsers were on the street and we all queued with buckets,kettles and anything that would hold water.Later stand pipes were erected and we had to get water from them.
On that night of the 12th of December 1940 nearly 300 hundred planes attacked Sheffield and over 700 people died.Many were injured.At least 12 bombs dropped in a radius of 100 yards from our home.We had been the lucky ones.
On the 15th the bombers came back and this time the steel works were hit along with more homes but not as severe as on the 12th.We had gone to live at my aunt's home in Walkley and were outside watching the bombs exploding on the works some 6 miles away.
in the space of 3 days that was My War.After that Sheffield only had sparodic raids and an odd bomb being jetisoned by the planes on or after raids on Manchester and Liverpool.
on a lighter note all my friends and family were avid Sheffield Wednesday fans and when we found out that Sheffield United had been bombed,we all cheered and for some time we sang a little ditty about Hitler bombing United.

Evening mate,thanks for that it's helpful. Maybe I'm reducing them too much before posting without any need. Great thread this and so informative.

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On 30/04/2021 at 17:05, scram said:

 

 

Did you know there were 2 Russian units and 1 American fighting their way to Berlin

 

When it looked like they might arrive in Berlin at a similar time - or the Americans may even beat the Russians to the city - Stalin diverted one of his units to head off the Americans by impeding their ability to cross a river (forgot what it's called) that was the last obstacle before the yanks had a free run to Berlin?

 

That's probably how Berlin got divided into east and west

I always thought the Americans just stopped going for Berlin and left it to the Soviets as a "reward", even though like you kinda said the Americans would have reached it first? Stalin was also got the two commanders/armies competing against each other for who would reach the city first.

 

Also was it the river Rhine? I thought that was the last major natural obstacle to Berlin? If so that had no Soviets. Berlin and Germany began being carved up a year or so before the war ended too.     


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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2 minutes ago, REDOWL said:

Apols this link hadn't worked properly.

It worked for me, is this the right page https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/ ?


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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14 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

It worked for me, is this the right page https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/ ?

Yes mate thanks. If you access the site you can click straight on to the  Sheffield and South Yorkshire part or any other area of the country. It's fascinating reading experiences of those who lived through it and how they coped at the time.

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32 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

I always thought the Americans just stopped going for Berlin and left it to the Soviets as a "reward", even though like you kinda said the Americans would have reached it first? Stalin was also got the two commanders/armies competing against each other for who would reach the city first.

 

Also was it the river Rhine? I thought that was the last major natural obstacle to Berlin? If so that had no Soviets. Berlin and Germany began being carved up a year or so before the war ended too.     

 

From what i understand (and believe me i'm no expert) Stalin had the 2 units going for Berlin but always intended to let one commander actually move forward and "gain the prize"

 

The other unit diverted to impede the Americans i believe coming from Belgium?

 

It wasn't The Rhine

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20 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

How do you physic yourself up to walk/charge into a hail of bullets?  The fear they must have felt just before the order was given must have been extraordinary.  

 

Could you do it?

Yeah I struggle to understand how people did/do it. I guess that's why soldiers were given Rum/booze, found this great/kinda funny in places (at first glance) article about it: https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/475/bws/booze-in-wwi Errol below also answers your question too. Also if conscription happened for WWIII I wouldn't even go, I would rather go on the run/get sent to prison. I would rather fight for my family/other normal people instead of for the elite etc. in a war that is pointless for us normal people. I found/remembered some more videos I'll post too.

20 hours ago, Errol Flashman said:

I reckon I'd be more likely to be shot running the other way.

 

19 hours ago, M Royds said:

It was so wrong. At least they should have let them charge. 
 

Lions led by donkeys. 

If I remember correctly walking and charging was no different really, walking was actually better? Also you had the advancing artillery thing in front of the infantry. I searched it and found this:

You have a long answer in it, basically it's a bit of a myth really.

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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23 minutes ago, REDOWL said:

Yes mate thanks. If you access the site you can click straight on to the  Sheffield and South Yorkshire part or any other area of the country. It's fascinating reading experiences of those who lived through it and how they coped at the time.

Thanks, I'll check it out. My nan was around 10 when the war ended, but I've never really asked her about it. I remember watching a BBC documentary about the blitz etc. and it featured Sheffield in parts, I'll try and find it.

15 minutes ago, scram said:

 

From what i understand (and believe me i'm no expert) Stalin had the 2 units going for Berlin but always intended to let one commander actually move forward and "gain the prize"

 

The other unit diverted to impede the Americans i believe coming from Belgium?

 

It wasn't The Rhine

Yeah it's ringing a bell now, I'm still not sure on the impeding of the Americans though, I'll try and research it.

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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1 hour ago, Incognito Owl said:

Yeah I struggle to understand how people did/do it. I guess that's why soldiers were given Rum/booze, found this great/kinda funny in places (at first glance) article about it: https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/475/bws/booze-in-wwi Errol below also answers your question too. Also if conscription happened for WWIII I wouldn't even go, I would rather go on the run/get sent to prison. I would rather fight for my family/other normal people instead of for the elite etc. in a war that is pointless for us normal people. I found/remembered some more videos I'll post too.

 

If I remember correctly walking and charging was no different really, walking was actually better? Also you had the advancing artillery thing in front of the infantry. I searched it and found this:

You have a long answer in it, basically it's a bit of a myth really.

Maybe. I seem to recall that a lot of the fighting tactics were not much more advance than during the Napoleonic times. Calvary charges to clear the way and infantry walking behind. 
 

Go forward to the second world and complete turnaround. The German Army was initially so successful in sweeping Europe by having a small dynamic fighting force that went at a fast pace, often independently, with a common goal of driving forward. And supported by superior air cover. 
 

Go forward even more, will warfare needs personnel when a guy in a portacabin in Nevada can bring destruction with the use of a joy stick. 
 

Who knows. We may find out soon with Russia and Ukraine.  

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1 hour ago, scram said:

 

From what i understand (and believe me i'm no expert) Stalin had the 2 units going for Berlin but always intended to let one commander actually move forward and "gain the prize"

 

The other unit diverted to impede the Americans i believe coming from Belgium?

 

It wasn't The Rhine

I thought that the Americans had more than a free run to Germany than the Russians. Once all was lost the Germans favoured the Americans sweeping and taking more ground than the Russians. Not sure if I got this right but is this the reason West Germany was bigger that east Germany?

 

image.thumb.png.be78fb6603ef5c6cb10db056c466489e.png

 
 

Of course, there were towns and districts with committed Nazis made it very difficult for the Americans with battles on every street corner. However, on the eastern side, the Soviets were made to fight for every metre for fear of what the Russians would do to them. 
 

If you get chance what Berlin on iPlayer. It’s grim but compelling. 
 

I must rewatch Band of Brothers. I found the end quite moving when the title of the series is actually mentioned for the first time. For me, this is the moment that the character, played by wonderful Damien Lewis, realises that the enemy grunt is not much different to me. 

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