Sheffield’s Struggle

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Jim said:

 

What’s it about then? I’ve seen a post about Manchester and Liverpool being similar sized cities. Well if you pool together the average attendances of both then you’re looking at the best part of 80-130k average attendance. You pool the both the average attendances of the 2 clubs in Sheffield you’ll get 50-60k if you’re lucky. 

 

I’m aware that Manchester United/City and Liverpool/Everton attract fans from around the world but so could Wednesday and United but neither don’t have the footballing history or the marketing tools to attract fans from further afield.

 

All this Sheffield gave birth to the game cr@p yet we’ve never ever had a club that has carried the gravitas of Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham or Arsenal in the game. Think what you want but you won’t change my opinion, very much in the same way I won’t change yours?

 

On and by the way your post was a ridiculous one as well

 

Leicester have had great recent success, not because they are a 1-club city but because they have had a well structured approach to spending big money. Their fan base is no bigger than either ourselves or our smaller neighbours historically.  

[SallyCinnamon]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I dunno.. my mates from Sheffield, mainly people I went to school with, hate spending money on tat or on things that would come in to the life experience category. In London, my mates throw money around like confetti. It’s a big difference in mentality 

Still it’s a generalisation! I have a mate in London who used to ask me to pay him back for a 2 quid taxi. 
 

Sheffield folk will pay for a product they believe in or have pride in. Sheffield Wednesday over the past few years have been a shambles.

 

Plus no football fan in England would sign up to the ridiculous Club 1867 scheme. Thousands of pounds upfront? Yeah right, the average working man in Britain just won’t do that. No matter which part of the country you’re from. 

[Guest Therealrealist]

7 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I dunno.. my mates from Sheffield, mainly people I went to school with, hate spending money on tat or on things that would come in to the life experience category. In London, my mates throw money around like confetti. It’s a big difference in mentality 

Correctamondo..Sheffield people are tight..me included 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Jim said:

 

For a start finance. Sheffielders don’t like having to put their hand in their pocket. Yes, the ticket prices are too high here but even when they were lower there was still complaints.

 

Both clubs will always have at least one player that attracts criticism and hostility and let’s face it even though when things are good we’re good fan bases to play for, when things aren’t which they invariably are, we are the worst.

 

I’m not saying it’s impossible to get things right here but a lot of things have to fall into place which is very difficult. As a Wednesday fan getting the owners/board and fan base pulling together is extremely difficult and you need that at the very least to stand a chance of being successful.

 

But that’s my view and I understand some people will not share it but each to their own.

 

Most clubs have this. A fair few seem to be having issues with their own 'fans' sending vile abuse to their own players on social media for the smallest mistakes, worse than what ours seem to get.  

[Animis]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Leicester have had great recent success, not because they are a 1-club city but because they have had a well structured approach to spending big money. Their fan base is no bigger than either ourselves or our smaller neighbours historically.  

 

To be fair to Leicester, they've grow their brand over the last 20 years or so. They were a fairly standard Championship club up until 10 years ago, but they got lucky with an owner who knew what he was doing. They've grown their fan base by 10k + in this time, developed a great stadium and the PL Championship was a truly amazing story. 

 

They have a very good marketing department/strategy - dragging in the county fans, like Norwich. This will set them up for years to come.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Animis said:

 

To be fair to Leicester, they've grow their brand over the last 20 years or so. They were a fairly standard Championship club up until 10 years ago, but they got lucky with an owner who knew what he was doing. They've grown their fan base by 10k + in this time, developed a great stadium and the PL Championship was a truly amazing story. 

 

They have a very good marketing department/strategy - dragging in the county fans, like Norwich. This will set them up for years to come.

 

Absolutely, as I say that's down to owners having a clear idea of what they wanted to do and implemented it well. It's not because they only have 1 professional team in their city. Their fan base has grown with success and a new stadium. If we were ever run in enough of a coordinated manner to reached the promised land of the Premier League and were to build a shiny new stadium to boot then our fan base would increase. Attendances increased plenty with just a sniff of success a few years ago, even though prices were comparatively high. If we were to get to the PL and offer cheaper pricing then we would see a big increase in attendance. 

[quinnssweetshop]

12 hours ago, sonofbert2 said:

I can’t ever remember thinking, “Well, that justfucking sums us up!” as many times in a negative way over one season during my 40 years of watching Wednesday.

 

I’ve seen worse teams, far worse players, much worse football but I can’t ever remember a bigger bunch of such thick, spineless belltips.

Absolutely totally this!! 

[Animis]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Absolutely, as I say that's down to owners having a clear idea of what they wanted to do and implemented it well. It's not because they only have 1 professional team in their city. Their fan base has grown with success and a new stadium. If we were ever run in enough of a coordinated manner to reached the promised land of the Premier League and were to build a shiny new stadium to boot then our fan base would increase. Attendances increased plenty with just a sniff of success a few years ago, even though prices were comparatively high. If we were to get to the PL and offer cheaper pricing then we would see a big increase in attendance. 

 

Yes - if we were having a successful run, our home fan demand would exceed the max-capped 30k due to SAG. 

 

We have some hardy souls who support us, but there a dormant 10k or so who could be attracted, but we'd need a new stadium and probably a few successful years in the PL. 

 

The key for SWFC is sustaining a good spell for a period of more than two/three years. Both SUFC and us seem to be unable to do this.

[OwlOnWheels]

11 hours ago, Jim said:

Sheffield’s not big enough or passionate enough a football city to carry two clubs. It’s been blatantly obvious for years. If the city had one club like Leeds, Leicester or Newcastle it would’ve been far more successful.

 

I hardly think Leicester is a footballing hotbed, but they had an exceptional manager, who's legacy has been continued.  Good leadership is what's been sorely lacking for many many years for both teams in Sheffield.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

Yes - if we were having a successful run, our home fan demand would exceed the max-capped 30k due to SAG. 

 

We have some hardy souls who support us, but there a dormant 10k or so who could be attracted, but we'd need a new stadium and probably a few successful years in the PL. 

 

The key for SWFC is sustaining a good spell for a period of more than two/three years. Both SUFC and us seem to be unable to do this.

 

When Leicester were in the 3rd division in their shiny new stadium in 2009 they averaged 1,000 less than we did the last time we were at that level.

 

It's nonsense to suggest that we are held back by being a 2-club city or because of the demographics and economics of Sheffield to that extent. We are held back because we have not been run as effectively as the likes of Leicester, Burnley, West Brom, Southampton etc. who have had smaller fan bases despite being 1-club towns/cities. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Guest

[Animis]

4 minutes ago, OwlOnWheels said:

 

I hardly think Leicester is a footballing hotbed, but they had an exceptional manager, who's legacy has been continued.  Good leadership is what's been sorely lacking for many many years for both teams in Sheffield.

 

And I think that's the point - ask yourself why neither club can attract serious people; investors, players and managers. Where are the leaders?

 

Wilder hit a formula - we shouldn't have been surprise as Bassett and Warnock did the same thing - a sort of 'us against the world' siege mentality. That's ok for a short period - it's not sustainable because you get found out and end up having to sign the likes of Brewster in an attempt to 'compete'. 

 

We had Big Ron - IMO a perfect match, which is unlikely to be matched in my life time. This could have been our time for decades to come - build over several years, and then have a planned succession, like he had arranged with Pearson in his second spell. Of course our esteemed leader thought better and brought in Wilson - classic small time SWFC mentality. 

 

 

[Animis]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

When Leicester were in the 3rd division in their shiny new stadium in 2009 they averaged 1,000 less than we did the last time we were at that level.

 

It's nonsense to suggest that we are held back by being a 2-club city or because of the demographics and economics of Sheffield to that extent. We are held back because we have not been run as effectively as the likes of Leicester, Burnley, West Brom, Southampton etc. who have had smaller fan bases despite being 1-club towns/cities. 

 

Yes - but Leicester were always going to get back into the Championship - as I said that's when they took off, and clawed in the thousands out out-lining fans to support their 'county team'. West Brom remind me of us in the late 90s but they seem to have a plan to come back, not fall away like us. Of course parachutes payment help.

 

Southampton are similar to Leicester in infrastructure - again a new stadium helped them as well as being the 'Hampshire' club.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

42 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Still it’s a generalisation! I have a mate in London who used to ask me to pay him back for a 2 quid taxi. 
 

Sheffield folk will pay for a product they believe in or have pride in. Sheffield Wednesday over the past few years have been a shambles.

 

Plus no football fan in England would sign up to the ridiculous Club 1867 scheme. Thousands of pounds upfront? Yeah right, the average working man in Britain just won’t do that. No matter which part of the country you’re from. 

Well that’s kind of what I mean, it’s not that they’d never spend it’s that they want good value for money, to a greater extent than you’d see elsewhere. Unfortunately football prices don’t offer good value for money as a day out given alternative options. At £35-40 a game it’s a complete rip off at our level.. but even if prices were cut to £25-30 a game it’s not as bad but still expensive.. the price level which most would say made it good value would be more like £15, so there’s a gap with reality which can’t be closed. 
 

Part of it is salaries as they’re lower, but there’s definitely more of a speculate to accumulate mentality down south compared to Yorkshire. 

Obviously generalising here and there will be exceptions but in terms of how the majority think in different places.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

19 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

When Leicester were in the 3rd division in their shiny new stadium in 2009 they averaged 1,000 less than we did the last time we were at that level.

 

It's nonsense to suggest that we are held back by being a 2-club city or because of the demographics and economics of Sheffield to that extent. We are held back because we have not been run as effectively as the likes of Leicester, Burnley, West Brom, Southampton etc. who have had smaller fan bases despite being 1-club towns/cities. 

If DC had made the right decisions post Wembley we could have been one of those mid table prem sides. If he’d got the right advice or got the right footballing people involved, put the investment in to players who might improve then there wouldn’t have been much difference between us, Leeds, Wolves, Leicester etc. As it is, he’s relegated us and we look lightyears behind only 5 years later 

[83owl]

1 hour ago, Animis said:

 

To be fair to Leicester, they've grow their brand over the last 20 years or so. They were a fairly standard Championship club up until 10 years ago, but they got lucky with an owner who knew what he was doing. They've grown their fan base by 10k + in this time, developed a great stadium and the PL Championship was a truly amazing story. 

 

They have a very good marketing department/strategy - dragging in the county fans, like Norwich. This will set them up for years to come.

Idiots

 

As our Illustrious leader has pointed out you cant plan in football. All you can do is set a budget for the season and hope it works out.

[Athelwulf]

19 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

If DC had made the right decisions post Wembley we could have been one of those mid table prem sides. If he’d got the right advice or got the right footballing people involved, put the investment in to players who might improve then there wouldn’t have been much difference between us, Leeds, Wolves, Leicester etc. As it is, he’s relegated us and we look lightyears behind only 5 years later 

 

My criticism of Chansiri isn't about gambling, raising ticket prices, taxi companies and all that jazz, because I understand why he did those things, based on what he inherited.

 

But there'd be no doubt in my mind that where he is to blame is in his stubbornness, arrogance and failure to take the correct advice.

 

Even after the 'Udders shambles, had Carlos been dismissed and a new manager brought in then we could have had a third shot at promotion.

 

We were still a good team.

[Athelwulf]

6 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Idiots

 

As our Illustrious leader has pointed out you cant plan in football. All you can do is set a budget for the season and hope it works out.

 

You can, but that takes time.

 

And back in 2015 few fans had the patience for that.

 

Read Owlstalk contributions from that time and you'll be left in no doubt.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

You can, but that takes time.

 

And back in 2015 few fans had the patience for that.

 

Read Owlstalk contributions from that time and you'll be left in no doubt.

 

Mandaric sold Leicester to King Power in 2010. BY 2014 they were promoted as Championship winneras and by 2016 they were Premier League champions. 

 

Winning the PL for a team like that is perhaps once in a generation kind of thing but they were able to put their plan in place and get up within 3 full seasons in charge.  Failing to do that ourselves was disappointing but not having a sufficient plan in place to rebuild and refresh was and is continuing to be our downfall. It is shocking that we are in such a poor position financially having spent next to nothing in the transfer market for about 4 years. 

[davey_wells]

The current bunch of players are so inept, stupid and gutless I'm genuinely angry at them now.

 

I'm angry that they havent accepted just how bad they are, just how ridiculous their inability to recover from conceding a goal is, or their sheer lack of care in anything they're doing.  They do not give a throw about what a mess they've put this club into. 

 

I'm angry that this isnt a bunch of kids trying their best but getting outplayed, its a bunch of heavily overpaid losers who have consistently shown they are borderline unprofessional.

 

And I'm angry that these lot, in combination with the biggest disaster of an owner I could ever imagine, have quickly made SWFC a complete laughing stock, a true calamity, resulting in my lad of 10 completely deserting being a fan, uninterested in the players, club, results and how far we've dropped.  A lost fan, bored to death of supporting a complete shambles that gives absolutely zero back in terms of joy... and I can't blame him.

 

 

 

 

[sternlad]

1 hour ago, davey_wells said:

The current bunch of players are so inept, stupid and gutless I'm genuinely angry at them now.

 

I'm angry that they havent accepted just how bad they are, just how ridiculous their inability to recover from conceding a goal is, or their sheer lack of care in anything they're doing.  They do not give a throw about what a mess they've put this club into. 

 

I'm angry that this isnt a bunch of kids trying their best but getting outplayed, its a bunch of heavily overpaid losers who have consistently shown they are borderline unprofessional.

 

And I'm angry that these lot, in combination with the biggest disaster of an owner I could ever imagine, have quickly made SWFC a complete laughing stock, a true calamity, resulting in my lad of 10 completely deserting being a fan, uninterested in the players, club, results and how far we've dropped.  A lost fan, bored to death of supporting a complete shambles that gives absolutely zero back in terms of joy... and I can't blame him.

 

 

 

 

That is very very sad. I remember feeling exactly the same as him at the age of 14 when we were relegated from the top division in 1970. Embarrassed, angry, target for endless jibes at school...no fun whatsoever. 4 years later I left the area and never returned, just supporting from afar without the heartache of being drawn into watching every other week...it eased the pain being slightly detached from ‘home’. Things were desperate in the seventies in all sorts of ways, but the club now is just a shambles from top to bottom, feel sorry for the staff that work behind the scenes. I wish fans had been allowed in this year to vent their spleen on the shower of players successive managers have called ‘a good group’. They wouldn’t know what  a good group was even if they were sat next to the Beatles on stage. So many lost supporters due to COVID and the prospect of League One football. Attendances through the floor next season...below 10,000 id think.