Sheffield’s Struggle

[owls maniac]

6 minutes ago, SiJ said:

There is absolutely no reason why Sheffield can't have two teams competing at the top end of the Championship. 

 

Anything better than that might be a stretch these days.

Exactly. In the last 20 years United have been better run and although they have been in L1 they have also had 3 years in the PL, multiple cup semi finals and been a fairly handy side at championship level. 

 

SWFC have spent most of the last 20 years with huge financial restrictions and have found it hard to compete. 
 

I think fans weaving some story about how the city and its people are inherently holding the clubs back is absurd. We just need sensible owners. Burnley is a massive shithole and hasn’t done too badly at all. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by owls maniac

[sternlad]

2 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

 

They are mentally weak. 

They are, and they have no pride in their work or themselves. I’m hoping that those out of contract have a torrid time trying to get new ones elsewhere...maybe they’ll be snapped up by the teams in Cyprus. I can’t see any recruitment teams wanting them after the displays they’ve put in this season. So many opportunities to grab a point or hang on to a lead...shameful.

[CircleSeven]

10 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

For a start finance. Sheffielders don’t like having to put their hand in their pocket. Yes, the ticket prices are too high here but even when they were lower there was still complaints.

 

Both clubs will always have at least one player that attracts criticism and hostility and let’s face it even though when things are good we’re good fan bases to play for, when things aren’t which they invariably are, we are the worst.

 

I’m not saying it’s impossible to get things right here but a lot of things have to fall into place which is very difficult. As a Wednesday fan getting the owners/board and fan base pulling together is extremely difficult and you need that at the very least to stand a chance of being successful.

 

But that’s my view and I understand some people will not share it but each to their own.

So your saying our football teams are rubbish because the people of Sheffield are a bunch of moaning tightwads who are horrible to our players?

In one sense I kind of agree. I am certainly a moaning tightwad and I know many fine Sheffielders who would happily admit the same. 
Where our views probably differ is that I just don’t think that makes much difference to the clubs in the modern game. Blades are going down because they didn’t spend well enough. We are going down because of the club’s financial mismanagement. The tightness and moaning of the fans doesn’t really affect the game as much as it used to IMO.

[Taximark]

2 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

For a start finance. Sheffielders don’t like having to put their hand in their pocket. Yes, the ticket prices are too high here but even when they were lower there was still complaints.

 

Both clubs will always have at least one player that attracts criticism and hostility and let’s face it even though when things are good we’re good fan bases to play for, when things aren’t which they invariably are, we are the worst.

 

I’m not saying it’s impossible to get things right here but a lot of things have to fall into place which is very difficult. As a Wednesday fan getting the owners/board and fan base pulling together is extremely difficult and you need that at the very least to stand a chance of being successful.

 

But that’s my view and I understand some people will not share it but each to their own.

In reply to your first paragraph I was driving home one evening listening to 5 live and a string of WBA fans were moaning at their Season Ticket prices ( think they were around 150 - 250 quid) in the PL!!

I've heard others moan too, take a look at the Hudd forum and see how many aren't renewing next year and they paid around 100 quid for a st in the PL! It happens at nearly every club, Spurs fans were even moaning about how much their tickets rose with their new stadium but at least they had a new stadium with brilliant facilities....so to single out Wednesday fans like me paying 680 quid for my ST is silly, Sheffield is a working class area still, yet our prices were then most expensive in this league - second most expensive stand at Anfield is around the cost of our South Stand!

 

Every club has players that fall out of favour with the fans as well, Anthony Martial at Man U has got dogs abuse by fans this season!

 

All your points doesn't mean Sheffield cannot host two clubs though...its another pointless argument.

[Ellis Rimmer]

27 minutes ago, Beighton Owl 87 said:

We played Spora Luxembourg and Kaiserslautern one season nearly 30 years ago. Doesn't compare with those clubs achievements in Europe. However I do think this city is big enough for both of us to compete in the PL when you consider the likes of Burnley, Watford, Bournemouth etc who have spent a fair bit in the top flight. 

We wouldn’t have been in a few times if it wasn’t for Liverpool 

[83owl]

3 hours ago, Jim said:

Sheffield’s not big enough or passionate enough a football city to carry two clubs. It’s been blatantly obvious for years. If the city had one club like Leeds, Leicester or Newcastle it would’ve been far more successful.

Yeah the fact we dont have enough fans is to blame for us spaffing 30m+ a year on 30odd year old has beens for years on end and an inability to even cheat this by selling the stadium to ourselves properly.

[Rogers]

3 hours ago, Jim said:

Sheffield’s not big enough or passionate enough a football city to carry two clubs. It’s been blatantly obvious for years. If the city had one club like Leeds, Leicester or Newcastle it would’ve been far more successful.

Who’s stupid idea was it to start Sheff Utd 

[Harrysgame]

3 hours ago, Sensible Soccer said:

It’s sad for Sheffield that it is home to 1 bang average football club and one basket case of a club. I remember the excitement it bought to the city (and sadly the chaos) when there was a Sheffield derby in the top tier.

Think this could sum Sheffield up to be honest. Home of football, yet how many of us have actually been to see them and considered them over the years. Any other progressive place would have been marketing this, global game etc etc. Even the football museum is in Manchester.

[SiJ]

Sheffield has the oldest football club on the planet...and they play their football in Dronfield. 

 

Kinda sums it up. 

 

 

[victorturner]

1 hour ago, TaxiMark said:

In reply to your first paragraph I was driving home one evening listening to 5 live and a string of WBA fans were moaning at their Season Ticket prices ( think they were around 150 - 250 quid) in the PL!!

I've heard others moan too, take a look at the Hudd forum and see how many aren't renewing next year and they paid around 100 quid for a st in the PL! It happens at nearly every club, Spurs fans were even moaning about how much their tickets rose with their new stadium but at least they had a new stadium with brilliant facilities....so to single out Wednesday fans like me paying 680 quid for my ST is silly, Sheffield is a working class area still, yet our prices were then most expensive in this league - second most expensive stand at Anfield is around the cost of our South Stand!

 

Every club has players that fall out of favour with the fans as well, Anthony Martial at Man U has got dogs abuse by fans this season!

 

All your points doesn't mean Sheffield cannot host two clubs though...its another pointless argument.

South Yorkshire is an area with one of the lowest pay levels in the country. It's 60 years since the crowds averaged over 30000 over any five year period. You (cannot) could not sustain a club to get top managers and players with that income ..until freakish good luck and judgement gave us Atkinson

 

and with the Premium TV deals, we know you need  decent manager like Burnley to be able to keep troughing it. Good management essential to get out of the mire..it's the main competitive winning point we have control over and who apart from Bruce have we had since the play off final loss? ..which should have been marked with necessary improvements made not make things worse,  starting by keeping the defeated manager and his steamrollered midfield.. 

[sonofbert2]

I remember the semi-final at Wembley.

 

Seemed like the whole city was there for that game.

 

We won.  Once in a lifetime experience most likely......

 

Liverpool V Everton

 

Utd V City

 

Tottenham V Arsenal

 

God knows how many other London clubs V other London clubs over the years.....

 

50000 a week between us easy at the top level in a city of 650 thousand.  More if we were doing better.

 

Sheffield deserves better.

 

Sad but true.

 

 

[Road Runner]

5 hours ago, sonofbert2 said:

We could have had a reyt laugh this season just by staying up after the points deduction.

 

It’s not like we haven’t had the opportunities but we’ve failed time after time after time in big moments purely and simply because of lack of bottle and leadership.

 

You can rant all you want about the chairman and the state of the club, various managers etc but what happens on the pitch is really what counts and this spineless bunch should hang their heads in shame.

 

We had a list of the mad stuff that the chairman has done.  You could easily make a similar list of stupid and pathetic stuff this team have done, out there, on the pitch over this season.

 

Failure to fight back in any game even to achieve a draw, losing from winning positions, stupid sending offs, missed chances, crumbling late on in games, the list is endless.

 

This club lacks leadership on and off the pitch and looks to have denied us, and this city, what could have been a good season of fierce rivalry in the same division next season.

 

Pathetic.

Post of the season this, summed up perfectly. 
 

For all of Chansiri faults he is not responsible for the players lack of fight, lack of passion, lack of pride. 
 

These players have relegated a club because they couldn’t be bothered and they got lucky the fans aren’t allowed in. 
 

Some will get a new club next season and blame others for this season but I think a few may be in for a shock. 
 

Never been so ashamed watching a bunch of spineless players play in the Blue and white for this badge. 
 

 

[SiJ]

Both clubs are somewhat stuck in the past. 

 

Other clubs have become much more progressive, whilst both us and them lot continually look to trade off the fact we are (or were) "big" clubs once upon a time

[SiJ]

1 minute ago, Road Runner said:

Post of the season this, summed up perfectly. 
 

For all of Chansiri faults he is not responsible for the players lack of fight, lack of passion, lack of pride. 
 

These players have relegated a club because they couldn’t be bothered and they got lucky the fans aren’t allowed in. 
 

Some will get a new club next season and blame others for this season but I think a few may be in for a shock. 
 

Never been so ashamed watching a bunch of spineless players play in the Blue and white for this badge. 
 

 

Pretty much. 

 

The owner is a complete clown, but that doesn't excuse the utterly appalling level of performance from this group of players since January 2020. 

[Taximark]

7 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Both clubs are somewhat stuck in the past. 

 

Other clubs have become much more progressive, whilst both us and them lot continually look to trade off the fact we are (or were) "big" clubs once upon a time

Very easy thing to say...but since around 1999 till 2015 we have had very little money to invest to change anything ...then literally a few years on and here we are with restrictions again ...SWFC recent history has been blighted with financial problems and bad owners making decisions that has put this club where it is.

I don't think it has anything to do with Sheffield as a city it self .

Edited April 18, 2021 by TaxiMark

[WalworthOwl]

The Sheffield clubs have very respectable local fan bases, but that isn't where much football money comes from.

 

The latest Deloitte football finance review says premiership average attendance was 38,484 in 2018/19, 97% of capacity. But matchday receipts were only 13% of income, sponsorship was 28% and broadcasting was 59%. Scarily, average income was £293m.

 

Even within the premiership the richest are pulling away from the rest, as shown by the points totals of recent champions. The clubs lucky enough to be near the top when broadcast money exploded are now on a different level.

 

Most Wednesday fans don't have much spare cash. Brentford have sold a lot of “premium seats” in their new stadium, and it's hard to see something similar happening in Sheffield. Wednesday fans will grumble and compare the side to the great team of the early 90s, that's natural, but it does make the team less appealing to sponsors, who want to be associated with happy people. People moan about the owner's name being on the stadium, but surely that was a way in which he could put in some more money under FFP.

 

In France and Germany too clubs in the old industrial cities are declining and clubs in the commercial centres and the millionaire playgrounds are rising. Liverpool and Dortmund are obvious exceptions, but that's because of their history and worldwide following. Everyone likes authentic clubs like Wednesday, but nobody gives them extra money.

 

Chansiri has made mistakes, he gambled and didn't succeed. Recent recruitment wasn't good, but it's difficult when you have less money than your rivals. We were lucky to have Chansiri and not Mammadov. The essential requirement for an owner of a Championship club is to cover losses, if the owner is an expert at running a football club too that's a lucky bonus.

 

 

[SiJ]

11 minutes ago, TaxiMark said:

Very easy thing to say...but since around 1999 till 2015 we have had very little money to invest to change anything ...then literally a few years on and here we are with restrictions again ...SWFC recent history has been blighted with financial problems and bad owners making decisions that has put this club where it is.

I don't think it has anything to do with Sheffield as a city it self .

No, I don't think you can blame the city per se. At the end of the day, you've got between 40,000 and 50,000 people watching football (collectively) over the course of a couple of weekends in this city, when we are allowed in. A lot of clubs would kill for such support. 

 

It's more to do with the clubs and how, by and large, they've been poorly managed for most of the last two to three decades. 

 

Worth remembering that Dem Blades promotions were secured whilst in the background the two owners were suing one another. 

[FinnishOwl]

3 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

Would love to be able to share your optimism about the last sentence. Nothing I've seen hints at that being the case, it'll just be more of the same. Why would being in a lower division change anything? 

I am only hoping that the situation with cash flow and our inevitably reduced wage structure will prevent that tumour of an advisor from benefitting from our signings. Only time will tell, first we have to see if we have a manager or a first team coach and who the person is when the next window opens. And of course, Paxo's true link to the club is uncertain at least to me.

[Spuddy01]

3 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

Have you been at the product your username suggests? Relegation won't purge us of anything whilever DC listens to his current advisors. We have seen time and time again mistakes being made and no lessons being learnt. Unless this changes the only way is down. 

This, absolutely nothing will change at the club until either DC ******** off, or he changes the way he runs the club, I very much doubt the latter will ever happen. 

[Animis]

12 minutes ago, victorturner said:

South Yorkshire is an area with one of the lowest pay levels in the country. It's 60 years since the crowds averaged over 30000 over any five year period. You (cannot) could not sustain a club to get top managers and players with that income ..until freakish good luck and judgement gave us Atkinson

 

and with the Premium TV deals, we know you need  decent manager like Burnley to be able to keep troughing it. Good management essential to get out of the mire..it's the main competitive winning point we have control over and who apart from Bruce have we had since the play off final loss? ..which should have been marked with necessary improvements made not make things worse,  starting by keeping the defeated manager and his steamrollered midfield.. 

 

I was thinking about Burnley in this debate. They've done really well over the last 5 years - just hung in there with some to spare, based, as you say on a good manager. 

 

Whilst they've got an impressive history, it's also a fairly poor demographic with a circa 200k catchment area. They make the best of this and cut their cloth accordingly. Their rival is Blackburn, a similar size club but they don't compete for the same fans. It's a very different and almost sectarian area of the world. Their fans seem to accept this position and are happy to rock up to watch tactical football to eek out a win or draw. In essence, they seem to accept their level.

 

Would our fans tolerate scrapping at the bottom of the EPL like Burnley? I don't think they would. We didn't in the late 90s - crowds dropped to under 20k for many games, but then turn out for the big games This was the same in the 80s. 

 

United and us are also similar sized clubs, but us in particular almost feel like we should be a big club. We were in early mid eighties and early 90s - properly competing with the top clubs. They've all moved on and we are competing against the Stokes of this world to get attention. That's why we and United have not had a serious investor in my view - one who would get us competing at the top level. United's owners lack of decisive action against Wilder earlier in the season sums this up for me. If they were a competent owner, why did they let it go on so long - they could be in trouble now financially. Of course Norwich were in a similar position, but they stuck with Farke, presumably with a long term plan, which has clearly paid off.

 

There's clearly no right or wrong answer, and the city region may be able to sustain 2-top level clubs. I just have my doubts.