Pulis vs Moore

[victorturner]

34 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Moore has lost to Rotherham (22nd), Reading (7th), Norwich (1st), Watford (2nd), QPR (11th) and Swansea (3rd). He also beat Barnsley (6th) and Cardiff (8th). And drew with Huddersfield (19th).

 

I’m not trying to make excuses for him but the Rotherham game he was appointed on the Monday and we played them on the Wednesday, and it looked like Thompson picked the team. So that was more of a Thompson loss than a Moore one.

 

4 of the 5 defeats that Moore is responsible for were against sides going for automatic promotion or that are in and around the play offs. 6 of his 8 games (ex Rotherham) have been against sides in the top 8... sides that are clearly better than us over the season, and sides that we’ve still taken 6 points from 6 games against under him.

 

He’s simply not had enough time to form a judgement. If this was the first 9 games of the season we’d be saying well we’ve played all the best teams, we’ve only got 7 points from 8 games but there’s been some positive signs, let’s see how he gets on against the weaker sides.

 

Tbf to the other managers they were able to pick up the odd win against top half sides too. The reason we are where we are is because they lost about 2/3rds of the games against teams in the bottom half.

 

I’ll judge Moore properly once we’ve played some other bottom half sides. Last 5 are against Bristol (14th), Forest (15th), Blackburn (17th), Derby (20th) and Boro (10th). From what I’ve seen so far I think we’ll see a decent end to the season, maybe 9-10 points from those games. Unfortunately it isn’t going to be enough to keep us up though.

 

Performances have been much better under him than the others.. results will follow if we keep that up.

Wins do not necessarily follow playing prettier football.

They say in this league that any team can beat another, so we must not build up the top 8 as ones we were always going to lose to.

 

There has been no new manager bounce and frankly I am disappointed, esp in the imposition of the new system which the players are not suited to, the omission of Shaw as i do think he is miles better than  Paterson and Pelupessy and  the unfathomable substitutions he makes. Good enough for Celtic but not for us. We are playing a wing back system but we do not have wing backs.

[pussface]

Playing three at the back doesn't work.

Didn't work for Monk 

Didn't work for Thompson 

Did for Jos 

Yet Moore still preserves with it.

Bonkers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, victorturner said:

Wins do not necessarily follow playing prettier football.

They say in this league that any team can beat another, so we must not build up the top 8 as ones we were always going to lose to.

 

There has been no new manager bounce and frankly I am disappointed, esp in the imposition of the new system which the players are not suited to, the omission of Shaw as i do think he is miles better than  Paterson and Pelupessy and  the unfathomable substitutions he makes. Good enough for Celtic but not for us. We are playing a wing back system but we do not have wing backs.

Yeah but I just think we could put Pep in charge and we probably would still lose to Norwich, Watford and Swansea. If we lose to the likes of Derby and Forest then I’d agree he’s not improved us.

 

I prefer Paterson to Shaw tbh, think he’s overrated. Might be a decent player eventually but he’s raw. The subs are always bad because whoever we bring on weakens the team. Isn’t Reach a left wing back.. I also thought Palmer has been decent recently and has been putting some good balls in, something he hasn’t done much of before 

[Ian]

10 games under Pulis = I want to poke my eyes out with a rusty knife to ensure I can never watch this style of football again where we make no effort to attack or score

 

9 or 10 games under Moore = at least we make an effort to attack and score.

 

Would love to see some stats on attempts on goal in each of their respective tenure's

[Nero]

The only possible benefit of having 5 managers fail in a single season is that anyone with any sense can see that simply blaming the current manager is a fools errand.

 

 

 

 

[109Waddle]

7 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

I think all that tells you is that the players are dross and nobody is capable of turning it around with this group 

 

I think why people are less critical of Moore is that the general play is better, he’s a positive bloke and is only young and will presumably get better in his managerial career 

 

Pulis is a relic whose ideas are outdated and probably isn’t the nicest bloke to work under 

 

There’s also the notion that Pulis had these players earlier on in the season with more to play for.
 

For me we were relegated before Moore joined and I think the players had accepted it already 

 

 

Agree with all of this

[S72 Owl]

Pulis payed 5-5-0. We very rarely crossed the half way line. It was embarrassing to watch us lump it out of play every opportunity. At least with Moore we look like we can play better football which gives some people hope that next season might be a bit better. 

[Nero]

17 minutes ago, pussface said:

Playing three at the back doesn't work.

Didn't work for Monk 

Didn't work for Thompson 

Did for Jos 

Yet Moore still preserves with it.

Bonkers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Monk built this seasons squad around 3 at the back. We haven't the full backs or wide men for 442.

Anyway. The system is a complete red herring. All teams need to be flexible to play against the other team.

[SDS Owl]

2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Who would you go for at this point then? We kind of have to give it to someone without much experience because we’re out of options that would consider coming here 

Impossible to answer. Don’t know:

 

The salary we are paying and how competitive it is.

if a manager would be allowed to bring his own staff with him.

Who applied before.

What the transfer budget is (or if we will be under an embargo),

What the aim is next season (promotion / playoff / staying up?)

Etc, Etc.

 

I’m nor blaming Moore for the current debacle, I just don’t understand the blind optimism given his previous record and the result date. ‘I like him’ isn’t a reason to think he’s a good manager. 

[Dick_Turpin]

7 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I keep hearing the line that it was the spell under Pulis that cost us this season.

 

I have never heard that line. 

[Shetland Owl]

Trust Moore far more than Pulis. As we get nearer the end of thes season confidence tends to get lower with the position we are in. Pulis destroyed Wednesday as much as Monk, dont blame Moore at all its down to the players now. Moore is not giving up which is good, i never thought Pulis would do anything except upset the players with different tactics. Would like to see Moore get a full season with his own players 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

2 hours ago, parajack said:

We only have more chance of scoring if our possession of the ball is in the opponents final third,and if we than do something with it!!!..wheres the running off the ball and bodies in the box?...your stats should make complete sense,yet we keep on conceding silly goals and losing games by 2,3, or 4 goals....yet your 'stats' are both correct and meaningless at the same time....

So to be clear... You're suggesting we had more possession in the final third under Pulis? You’re suggesting that under Pulis we had bodies in the box? Are you suggesting we conceded less “silly goals”. I don’t understand your point. 

[Lionel Fessi]

8 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

I think all that tells you is that the players are dross and nobody is capable of turning it around with this group 

 

I think why people are less critical of Moore is that the general play is better, he’s a positive bloke and is only young and will presumably get better in his managerial career 

 

Pulis is a relic whose ideas are outdated and probably isn’t the nicest bloke to work under 

 

There’s also the notion that Pulis had these players earlier on in the season with more to play for.
 

For me we were relegated before Moore joined and I think the players had accepted it already 

 

 

This ^^

 

I know he only had 10 games but they were all dreadful. Forget how bad we were going forward, defensively he managed to make us worse....

 

Chansiri is the only person who we should point the finger at. Bad decision after bad decision players, manager, strategy, culture he is getting all the important decisions wrong. 

 

8 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Tony Pulis 10 games in charge

 

7 points out of a possible 30. 1 win in 10. 4 draws. 5 defeats.

 

Darren Moore 9 games in charge so far

 

7 points out of a possible 27. 2 wins. 1 draw. 6 defeats.

 

If we lose on Saturday Moore and Pulis have an identical record in there first 10 games in charge. One was absolutely crucified on here and on social media. The other seems to be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Football might be slightly better under Moore but results are largely the same? Personally don’t give a crap how we play as long as we pick up points. For me a

1-0 defeat to Preston is no different to a 4-1 defeat to QPR.

 

Moore has had a shocking start to his Wednesday career.

Important to remember during Pulis 10 games we had 10 straight losses on the expected goal stats, record league low in shots on target, key passes, shots conceded...statistically it was the worst we have performed all season and that’s before you even watched us play, we were AWFUL.  
 

I thought Pulis would be a good appointment but anyone who defends him is bonkers. Those 10 games were some of the worst performances I have ever seen from a swfc team. 
 

DM has been a great appointment. He had the impossible task of keeping us up so all I care about is if he’s trying to embed a good footballing philosophy and good culture at the club? He ticks both of those boxes. Looking forward to finally having a manager who is given the time and backing to make a difference. 

[SallyCinnamon]

5 minutes ago, Lionel Fessi said:

This ^^

 

I know he only had 10 games but they were all dreadful. Forget how bad we were going forward, defensively he managed to make us worse....

 

Chansiri is the only person who we should point the finger at. Bad decision after bad decision players, manager, strategy, culture he is getting all the important decisions wrong. 

 

Important to remember during Pulis 10 games we had 10 straight losses on the expected goal stats, record league low in shots on target, key passes, shots conceded...statistically it was the worst we have performed all season and that’s before you even watched us play, we were AWFUL.  
 

I thought Pulis would be a good appointment but anyone who defends him is bonkers. Those 10 games were some of the worst performances I have ever seen from a swfc team. 
 

DM has been a great appointment. He had the impossible task of keeping us up so all I care about is if he’s trying to embed a good footballing philosophy and good culture at the club? He ticks both of those boxes. Looking forward to finally having a manager who is given the time and backing to make a difference. 

Do you think he’ll be given the time and backing?

[parajack]

25 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

So to be clear... You're suggesting we had more possession in the final third under Pulis? You’re suggesting that under Pulis we had bodies in the box? Are you suggesting we conceded less “silly goals”. I don’t understand your point. 

You seem to be Obsessed with TP, we had Thomo after him,who we won 5 games on the bounce with,before going backwards again....my points are plain enough,you just dont agree with them...

[kobayashi]

7 minutes ago, Lionel Fessi said:

 

DM has been a great appointment. He had the impossible task of keeping us up so all I care about is if he’s trying to embed a good footballing philosophy and good culture at the club? He ticks both of those boxes. Looking forward to finally having a manager who is given the time and backing to make a difference. 

Time will tell whether he becomes a decent appointment but he most certainly has not been a great appointment so far.

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

Monk built this seasons squad around 3 at the back. We haven't the full backs or wide men for 442.

Anyway. The system is a complete red herring. All teams need to be flexible to play against the other team.

Another fallacy look at the players given a squad number this season,than come back and tell me GM  built this seasons squad......squad/team comprises players brought in under:CC,Bully,Jos,SB, and GM  and our 'recruitment team'

[parajack]

1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

 

I have never heard that line. 

TBF Mate i have seen that view posted a few times

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

5 minutes ago, parajack said:

You seem to be Obsessed with TP, we had Thomo after him,who we won 5 games on the bounce with,before going backwards again....my points are plain enough,you just dont agree with them...

Now you’ve really lost me. The thread is called Pulis v Moore??? So why would you accuse me of being obsessed with TP ? I didn’t start the thread. Why would you bring Thommo into it. We’re critiquing two of our managers and I responded to a post suggesting Moore’s football was no better than Pulis. Your points are irrelevant. Please don’t try and patronise when you haven’t understood the thread. 

[4evaowl]

9 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Tony Pulis 10 games in charge

 

7 points out of a possible 30. 1 win in 10. 4 draws. 5 defeats.

 

Darren Moore 9 games in charge so far

 

7 points out of a possible 27. 2 wins. 1 draw. 6 defeats.

 

If we lose on Saturday Moore and Pulis have an identical record in there first 10 games in charge. One was absolutely crucified on here and on social media. The other seems to be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Football might be slightly better under Moore but results are largely the same? Personally don’t give a crap how we play as long as we pick up points. For me a

1-0 defeat to Preston is no different to a 4-1 defeat to QPR.

 

Moore has had a shocking start to his Wednesday career.

I'm not saying DM has convinced me but under Pulis it was turgid, dreadful football with no signs of goals being scored. It was obvious the players hated it. Under DM the whole thing is far less grim, even though we are still poor. But as a result based job, DM won't be given long by DC if things don't improve.