Pulis vs Moore

[Minesapint]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Moore 7 points out of 27

 

Pulis 7 points out of 30

 

Don’t give a crap how we play. Both records are shocking. Yet one manager was given tremendous stick and the other needs more time. 

I think that’s too simplistic and unfair to DM. With the same squad of players TP declared they were a lopsided squad and resorted to defending and hoping to score from a free kick, corner or long throw.  The same players are now creating many more chances with a more progressive style. Some way to go and lacking a prolific scorer but progress nevertheless  

[Guest Grandad]

Not convinced by anybody thats been in the dugout this season

 

Except Neil Thompson - Won 5 out of 11 league games (with the same players available to all of the others)

 

Moore - won 2 out of 9 (one he didnt even attend)

Pulis - won 1 out of 10

Monk - won 3 out of 11

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Grandad said:

Not convinced by anybody thats been in the dugout this season

 

Except Neil Thompson - Won 5 out of 11 league games (with the same players available to all of the others)

 

Moore - won 2 out of 9 (one he didnt even attend)

Pulis - won 1 out of 10

Monk - won 3 out of 11

Exactly 

Thompson made a right mug out of these so called managers this season 

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

25 minutes ago, Minesapint said:

I think that’s too simplistic and unfair to DM. With the same squad of players TP declared they were a lopsided squad and resorted to defending and hoping to score from a free kick, corner or long throw.  The same players are now creating many more chances with a more progressive style. Some way to go and lacking a prolific scorer but progress nevertheless  

Pulis was completely correct with his assessment of the lopsided squad. 
 

Great creating more chances. How many points has Moore won in his first 9 games?

[SallyCinnamon]

7 minutes ago, Grandad said:

Not convinced by anybody thats been in the dugout this season

 

Except Neil Thompson - Won 5 out of 11 league games (with the same players available to all of the others)

 

Moore - won 2 out of 9 (one he didnt even attend)

Pulis - won 1 out of 10

Monk - won 3 out of 11

Yeah but the defeats to Coventry, Luton, Birmingham were awful under Thompson.

[Guest Grandad]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Yeah but the defeats to Coventry, Luton, Birmingham were awful under Thompson.

ALL of the managers we've had this season have overseen 'awful' defeats

[Big Jack]

2 minutes ago, Grandad said:

ALL of the managers we've had this season have overseen 'awful' defeats

nothing to do with any manager its all the fault of very poor recruitment.

[McRightSide]

If we’d hired Moore instead of Pulis we’d be in a better spot now I think

[Guest Grandad]

Just now, Asio otus said:

nothing to do with any manager its all the fault of very poor recruitment.

Why can 1 manager get 5 wins in similar quantity of games to other managers who manage 1 or 2?

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

We are creating more chances and having more shots on target under Moore and, QPR aside, our defence has been no worse. We have more possession under Moore. Although I agree with you that possession for possession’s sake is pointless, we have more chance of scoring if we have the ball and less chance of conceding if our opponents don’t have the ball. Pulis teams conceded possession and territory and tried not to concede for 90mins. Remember, it’s much harder to create than to destroy

We only have more chance of scoring if our possession of the ball is in the opponents final third,and if we than do something with it!!!..wheres the running off the ball and bodies in the box?...your stats should make complete sense,yet we keep on conceding silly goals and losing games by 2,3, or 4 goals....yet your 'stats' are both correct and meaningless at the same time....

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, Grandad said:

ALL of the managers we've had this season have overseen 'awful' defeats

Moore has lost to Rotherham (22nd), Reading (7th), Norwich (1st), Watford (2nd), QPR (11th) and Swansea (3rd). He also beat Barnsley (6th) and Cardiff (8th). And drew with Huddersfield (19th).

 

I’m not trying to make excuses for him but the Rotherham game he was appointed on the Monday and we played them on the Wednesday, and it looked like Thompson picked the team. So that was more of a Thompson loss than a Moore one.

 

4 of the 5 defeats that Moore is responsible for were against sides going for automatic promotion or that are in and around the play offs. 6 of his 8 games (ex Rotherham) have been against sides in the top 8... sides that are clearly better than us over the season, and sides that we’ve still taken 6 points from 6 games against under him.

 

He’s simply not had enough time to form a judgement. If this was the first 9 games of the season we’d be saying well we’ve played all the best teams, we’ve only got 7 points from 8 games but there’s been some positive signs, let’s see how he gets on against the weaker sides.

 

Tbf to the other managers they were able to pick up the odd win against top half sides too. The reason we are where we are is because they lost about 2/3rds of the games against teams in the bottom half.

 

I’ll judge Moore properly once we’ve played some other bottom half sides. Last 5 are against Bristol (14th), Forest (15th), Blackburn (17th), Derby (20th) and Boro (10th). From what I’ve seen so far I think we’ll see a decent end to the season, maybe 9-10 points from those games. Unfortunately it isn’t going to be enough to keep us up though.

 

Performances have been much better under him than the others.. results will follow if we keep that up.

[Buckwheat]

6 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Tony Pulis 10 games in charge

 

7 points out of a possible 30. 1 win in 10. 4 draws. 5 defeats.

 

Darren Moore 9 games in charge so far

 

7 points out of a possible 27. 2 wins. 1 draw. 6 defeats.

 

If we lose on Saturday Moore and Pulis have an identical record in there first 10 games in charge. One was absolutely crucified on here and on social media. The other seems to be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Football might be slightly better under Moore but results are largely the same? Personally don’t give a crap how we play as long as we pick up points. For me a

1-0 defeat to Preston is no different to a 4-1 defeat to QPR.

 

Moore has had a shocking start to his Wednesday career.

Thought if Pulis had been allowed to bring in his players he would have kept us up. Just an opinion.

[victorturner]

6 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

I think Pulis and Moore joined the club in very difficult circumstances.

Slightly inevitable that results were not very good.

Think Pulis is a bit of a Marmite character especially with the players.

I like his methods of not mollycoddling the players and being a bit of a bully but the days of those type of managers are probably gone now.

 

Moore seems a more likeable bloke and seen as better in the long term than Pulis.

 

Think 10 games is far tooo short to judge a manager. You probably need a season at least.

You cannot afford to hang around in League 1 though! 

[victorturner]

48 minutes ago, Sticky Micky said:

Exactly 

Thompson made a right mug out of these so called managers this season 

 

 

The wheels came off with four defeats in a row and some very wounding, but Neil T was as good as Pulis and Moore. 

[victorturner]

28 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Moore has lost to Rotherham (22nd), Reading (7th), Norwich (1st), Watford (2nd), QPR (11th) and Swansea (3rd). He also beat Barnsley (6th) and Cardiff (8th). And drew with Huddersfield (19th).

 

I’m not trying to make excuses for him but the Rotherham game he was appointed on the Monday and we played them on the Wednesday, and it looked like Thompson picked the team. So that was more of a Thompson loss than a Moore one.

 

4 of the 5 defeats that Moore is responsible for were against sides going for automatic promotion or that are in and around the play offs. 6 of his 8 games (ex Rotherham) have been against sides in the top 8... sides that are clearly better than us over the season, and sides that we’ve still taken 6 points from 6 games against under him.

 

He’s simply not had enough time to form a judgement. If this was the first 9 games of the season we’d be saying well we’ve played all the best teams, we’ve only got 7 points from 8 games but there’s been some positive signs, let’s see how he gets on against the weaker sides.

 

Tbf to the other managers they were able to pick up the odd win against top half sides too. The reason we are where we are is because they lost about 2/3rds of the games against teams in the bottom half.

 

I’ll judge Moore properly once we’ve played some other bottom half sides. Last 5 are against Bristol (14th), Forest (15th), Blackburn (17th), Derby (20th) and Boro (10th). From what I’ve seen so far I think we’ll see a decent end to the season, maybe 9-10 points from those games. Unfortunately it isn’t going to be enough to keep us up though.

 

Performances have been much better under him than the others.. results will follow if we keep that up.

Performances have to be measured by points as well as pretty football. Home failures to win  vs Rotherham and Huddersfield were very disappointing.

[victorturner]

4 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Luton, Rotherham and Wycombe losses within a week set the tone for the season. Been a real uphill struggle since, fought back under Thompson initially and then the Birmingham game where we were level on points with them was the inflection point. It’s been impossible since we lost that.

 

Under Pulis by and large we were on the back foot and didn’t create much. Under Moore we’ve tended to start games well enough but then fallen apart once we go behind like usual.

 

Reading - in the game first half an hour, go down to 10 men and concede a pen then capitulate.

 

Norwich - matched the champions elect first half and went in up at half time. Then lost.

 

Huddersfield - matched them, maybe shaded it first half, got the lead then faded, conceded and drew.

 

Barnsley - solid away win against top 6 side.

 

Watford - conceded early against a team that will get autos, a goal which VAR would probably rule out, lose 1-0 but in the game.

 

Cardiff - 5-0, best performance for years.

 

QPR - matched them first half 1-1, then Wildsmith chucked one in and we capitulated.

 

Swansea - would say we were the better side first half an hour then another defensive mistake gives them the lead. Faded and lost 2-0.

 

Not included Rotherham as he’d only been here a day and Thompson picked the team.

 

I guess for me it just feels like there’s more to work with there than what we saw under Monk or Pulis. It’s too late for this season and we haven’t got the results, but most games we’ve had spells on top which is better than we had at times under the other managers. 

Thompson must have picked the team vs Rotherham which is why we had Paterson at centre forward. But didn't DM order an immediate change in the system which included passing it out from the back starting in that match?

And didn't he immediately afterwards put Windass out wide on the left as part of the new system , just after the had scored two Luton? 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, victorturner said:

Performances have to be measured by points as well as pretty football. Home failures to win  vs Rotherham and Huddersfield were very disappointing.

Yeah of course, but over a season not over a handful of games. Anything can happen in a one off game, it’s the consistency that determines where you finish overall.

 

As I said, I don’t pin Rotherham on him. When you take a managers job at a club where you don’t know the players or have chance to work with them in training then you rely on the coaches already here to pick the side. Rotherham goes under Thompson’s tenure in my mind

 

Lets see what the point haul is by the end of the season. I think Moore’s record will be better by then but it won’t be enough to keep us up 

[83owl]

19 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

Thought if Pulis had been allowed to bring in his players he would have kept us up. Just an opinion.

You think our poor goalscoring record would have been improved after adding another 3 6ft+ centre backs into the squad?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, victorturner said:

Thompson must have picked the team vs Rotherham which is why we had Paterson at centre forward. But didn't DM order an immediate change in the system which included passing it out from the back starting in that match?

And didn't he immediately afterwards put Windass out wide on the left as part of the new system , just after the had scored two Luton? 

It looked to me like he’d come in on the Monday and said this is how I want to play and the formation I want to use, then he asked Thompson which players to put where. For example he left Rhodes out but Rhodes has started pretty much every game since.

[Guest Grandad]

37 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I’m not trying to make excuses for him but the Rotherham game he was appointed on the Monday and we played them on the Wednesday, and it looked like Thompson picked the team. So that was more of a Thompson loss than a Moore one.

 

BRILLIANT