Pulis vs Moore

[yeadonowl]

27 minutes ago, Kameron said:

 

Moore can't take credit for the Cardiff win as he was at home.

So he had no say in the team selection, tactics or ongoing instructions via telephone throughout the game

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Just find it interesting. I keep hearing the line that it was the spell under Pulis that cost us this season.

 

But his 10 games are no different to what Moore has produced so far? What’s he difference? 

Luton, Rotherham and Wycombe losses within a week set the tone for the season. Been a real uphill struggle since, fought back under Thompson initially and then the Birmingham game where we were level on points with them was the inflection point. It’s been impossible since we lost that.

 

Under Pulis by and large we were on the back foot and didn’t create much. Under Moore we’ve tended to start games well enough but then fallen apart once we go behind like usual.

 

Reading - in the game first half an hour, go down to 10 men and concede a pen then capitulate.

 

Norwich - matched the champions elect first half and went in up at half time. Then lost.

 

Huddersfield - matched them, maybe shaded it first half, got the lead then faded, conceded and drew.

 

Barnsley - solid away win against top 6 side.

 

Watford - conceded early against a team that will get autos, a goal which VAR would probably rule out, lose 1-0 but in the game.

 

Cardiff - 5-0, best performance for years.

 

QPR - matched them first half 1-1, then Wildsmith chucked one in and we capitulated.

 

Swansea - would say we were the better side first half an hour then another defensive mistake gives them the lead. Faded and lost 2-0.

 

Not included Rotherham as he’d only been here a day and Thompson picked the team.

 

I guess for me it just feels like there’s more to work with there than what we saw under Monk or Pulis. It’s too late for this season and we haven’t got the results, but most games we’ve had spells on top which is better than we had at times under the other managers. 

[swfcGibbo]

1 hour ago, Roscoe P. Coltrane said:

Think Pulis was sold a pup IMO..

Pulis wasn't sold anything. He didn't do any due diligence before he took the job, realised it was a mistake and then tried to engineer his own sacking. He's admitted himself that he took the job hastily as he couldn't get overseas on holiday.

Poor appointment by Chansiri but Pulis didn't do any analysis or due diligence before taking the job. He couldn't even attract his usual backroom staff. The whole fiasco was a farce.

[FreshOwl]

9 minutes ago, yeadonowl said:

So he had no say in the team selection, tactics or ongoing instructions via telephone throughout the game

Yeah he wasn’t stood on the touchline so it doesn’t count. I mean  

[NorthernOwl]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Just find it interesting. I keep hearing the line that it was the spell under Pulis that cost us this season.

 

But his 10 games are no different to what Moore has produced so far? What’s he difference? 

 

Pulis was brought in as a short term fix to keep us up and get immediate results. He failed to do this.

 

Moore has been brought in to improve us over the longer term. We were basically down when he arrived. The time to judge Moore will be next season.

 

 

[Kew Owl]

Jury’s still out on Moore as far as I’m concerned, but chopping and changing managers every few months, with the resultant inevitable changes in tactics and formations, clearly isn’t the answer.

 

Doesnt do anything for team spirit and player morale either.

 

No wonder so many players look as though they can’t wait for the season and their contracts to end

[bobness]

11 minutes ago, swfcGibbo said:

Pulis wasn't sold anything. He didn't do any due diligence before he took the job, realised it was a mistake and then tried to engineer his own sacking. He's admitted himself that he took the job hastily as he couldn't get overseas on holiday.

Poor appointment by Chansiri but Pulis didn't do any analysis or due diligence before taking the job. He couldn't even attract his usual backroom staff. The whole fiasco was a farce.

Or perhaps he applied some common sense: owner comes from a respected business family, and alleges to have splashed £350m on the club, so will do what needs to be done to survive. Coupled with the fact the owner comes across as peronsable and appears to genuinely care.

 

In our situation you wouldn't want to hire a manager like Pulis without wanting to flex his immense exprerience... at least that's what someone would think, someone who has never met someone like Chansiri.

Edited April 14, 2021 by bobness

[Westfield Owl]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I enjoyed the 5-0 victory. But the following two results suggest that was very much an anomaly. We might pass it around a bit more but we’re still losing games and look dead and buried after we go a goal down.

 

Is it really that much better than Pulis?

 

It probably isn’t much better, no.

 

But I think it’s only fair that we judge Moore after a full pre-season and a summer transfer window.

 

Sadly Pulis wasn’t afforded those ‘luxuries’ either.  Which kinda proves your point.

 

Its difficult to read too much into Pulis’/Moore’s respective results.  Especially given that they both came in part-way through the season and also, this club, under DC, is a mess.

[Hookowl]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Just find it interesting. I keep hearing the line that it was the spell under Pulis that cost us this season.

 

But his 10 games are no different to what Moore has produced so far? What’s he difference? 

 

There is no difference......................both got the same players.................

[FreshOwl]

This notion that Pulis was sold a dud is rubbish

 

Hes one of the most experienced football managers about with a bible of contacts. You think he wouldn’t have known what was going on here? 
 

He tried to save a sinking ship and failed miserably 

[Yellowbelly]

People saying the footballs not that much better now than under Pulis either have very very short memories or very very long noses.

[mogbad]

Monk, Pulis, Thompson & Moore have all served up poor performances & results. Unfortunately as the saying goes you can’t polish a turd.

 

If we had Pep in charge with Mourinho as his assistant & Sir Alex as DOF this squad of spineless tvvats still wouldn’t win anymore matches.

 

Squad recruitment & contract mismanagement has left us on a downward spiral which I fear won’t end with relegation to League 1.

[SallyCinnamon]

17 minutes ago, Yellowbelly said:

People saying the footballs not that much better now than under Pulis either have very very short memories or very very long noses.

Moore 7 points out of 27

 

Pulis 7 points out of 30

 

Don’t give a crap how we play. Both records are shocking. Yet one manager was given tremendous stick and the other needs more time. 

[Lucas Joao's Tooth]

Tony Pulis was written off before he came here for his reputation of being a long ball merchant and people couldn't wait to jump on him at any opportunity.
People had already made their minds up on him. 

He came in and set us up to be solid and tried to limp through to January to make some signings.
Did it work? No it didn't.


Darren Moore is a up and coming "exciting" manager who wants to play attractive football "the modern way" (the only way football can be played all of a sudden) and has tried implemented that since being here.
Fans see a longer term vision and plan with Moore over Pulis.

He has experience of the lower leagues and is that why he was brought in, had we already excepted our fate?

The performances have improved slightly and we now look more free and like we can actually create something suddenly but overall the results are the same.

Has it worked out? Again no it hasn't

We had one objective to stay in the league, we had to try and survive was it wise sitting deep all game under Pulis? 

Has it been wise to suddenly play out from the back under Moore at a crucial point of the season?

We can point and blame whoever we want but all of them have made mistakes and gone with a different plan which hasn't worked over the season.

People point to Monks recruitment - Yes it was poor but look at the bigger picture of it, i think at the same time it's what was on offer and what we could afford.

Kachunga got brought in as another body out of pure desperation for numbers. JP got a contract extension but didn't in terms of he got a clause activated for a further year, if we thought anything about him as a player and first team regular he'd had been offered a totally fresh contract with 2 or 3 years It's clear and obvious we struggled to recruit players last summer and signed some out of sheer desperation.

AND we signed a player with a broken leg for crying out loud.

We've had a core group of players that have been at this club far far too long, the only way we've got rid of them and their high wages is releasing them at the end of their contracts.
Problem is when you have outgoings you need to replace those players with similar and ideally better players, We've not done that.

Even last summer we released Kieran Lee and Nuhiu and we didn't even replace those.

When you look at football teams they have a identity, Rotherham for example everyone says they play direct and long ball etc but they've done it effectively to pick points up, Yes they are poor so they've not picked lots up but they have probably the smallest budget apart from Wycombe and they are getting results.
This squad has zero identity, we're not good enough to play out from the back, we're not good enough to play long ball, it's a team that's been gradually broken up and players haven't been replaced and its a team made up of scraps with no plan in place to play a certain style. 

 

We went for the big time, overspending and not selling players, now we've ended up on our backsides.
It's deeper than any of the managers and while i think it wasn't wise to sit deep all game under Pulis and it isn't wise with however many games left to suddenly try and play out from the back with Tom Lees and co
i won't hold any of this seasons managers solely responsible for this Football clubs demise.

[BIG D]

We’d be safe now if we’d stuck with Pulis (or if he’d stuck with us)

[Daizan10]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Tony Pulis 10 games in charge

 

7 points out of a possible 30. 1 win in 10. 4 draws. 5 defeats.

 

Darren Moore 9 games in charge so far

 

7 points out of a possible 27. 2 wins. 1 draw. 6 defeats.

 

If we lose on Saturday Moore and Pulis have an identical record in there first 10 games in charge. One was absolutely crucified on here and on social media. The other seems to be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Football might be slightly better under Moore but results are largely the same? Personally don’t give a crap how we play as long as we pick up points. For me a

1-0 defeat to Preston is no different to a 4-1 defeat to QPR.

 

Moore has had a shocking start to his Wednesday career.

Chalk and cheese, Incomparable performances - plus Moore hasn't admitted he cant do anything to sort them out - quite the opposite. 

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, Lucas Joao's Tooth said:

Tony Pulis was written off before he came here for his reputation of being a long ball merchant and people couldn't wait to jump on him at any opportunity.
People had already made their minds up on him. 

He came in and set us up to be solid and tried to limp through to January to make some signings.
Did it work? No it didn't.


Darren Moore is a up and coming "exciting" manager who wants to play attractive football "the modern way" (the only way football can be played all of a sudden) and has tried implemented that since being here.
Fans see a longer term vision and plan with Moore over Pulis.

He has experience of the lower leagues and is that why he was brought in, had we already excepted our fate?

The performances have improved slightly and we now look more free and like we can actually create something suddenly but overall the results are the same.

Has it worked out? Again no it hasn't

We had one objective to stay in the league, we had to try and survive was it wise sitting deep all game under Pulis? 

Has it been wise to suddenly play out from the back under Moore at a crucial point of the season?

We can point and blame whoever we want but all of them have made mistakes and gone with a different plan which hasn't worked over the season.

People point to Monks recruitment - Yes it was poor but look at the bigger picture of it, i think at the same time it's what was on offer and what we could afford.

Kachunga got brought in as another body out of pure desperation for numbers. JP got a contract extension but didn't in terms of he got a clause activated for a further year, if we thought anything about him as a player and first team regular he'd had been offered a totally fresh contract with 2 or 3 years It's clear and obvious we struggled to recruit players last summer and signed some out of sheer desperation.

AND we signed a player with a broken leg for crying out loud.

We've had a core group of players that have been at this club far far too long, the only way we've got rid of them and their high wages is releasing them at the end of their contracts.
Problem is when you have outgoings you need to replace those players with similar and ideally better players, We've not done that.

Even last summer we released Kieran Lee and Nuhiu and we didn't even replace those.

When you look at football teams they have a identity, Rotherham for example everyone says they play direct and long ball etc but they've done it effectively to pick points up, Yes they are poor so they've not picked lots up but they have probably the smallest budget apart from Wycombe and they are getting results.
This squad has zero identity, we're not good enough to play out from the back, we're not good enough to play long ball, it's a team that's been gradually broken up and players haven't been replaced and its a team made up of scraps with no plan in place to play a certain style. 

 

We went for the big time, overspending and not selling players, now we've ended up on our backsides.
It's deeper than any of the managers and while i think it wasn't wise to sit deep all game under Pulis and it isn't wise with however many games left to suddenly try and play out from the back with Tom Lees and co
i won't hold any of this seasons managers solely responsible for this Football clubs demise.

Absolutely spot on.

 

I’m playing devils advocate hugely in this thread. The point is whoever is in charge it won’t make a blind jot of difference due to the environment created by Captain Chaos over in Thailand.

[Lucas Joao's Tooth]

Just now, Daizan10 said:

Chalk and cheese, Incomparable performances - plus Moore hasn't admitted he cant do anything to sort them out - quite the opposite. 

But the performances haven't won us points? 

Is that all we are really bothered about playing "better football" 
We all ideally want nice football in a successful side but we're still not picking up points.

 

And fair play to Pulis for the home-truths about this bunch of so called players.

What Moore and Smith have said is a load of Media bull**** for example the games Smith were in charge of and Sky was asking him about the game "It's not a must win game" 
When of course it is. 

[Guest Kameron]

1 hour ago, yeadonowl said:

So he had no say in the team selection, tactics or ongoing instructions via telephone throughout the game

Do you seriously believe he sat and watched that  s hit? 

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, Lucas Joao's Tooth said:

But the performances haven't won us points? 

Is that all we are really bothered about playing "better football" 
We all ideally want nice football in a successful side but we're still not picking up points.

 

And fair play to Pulis for the home-truths about this bunch of so called players.

What Moore and Smith have said is a load of Media bull**** for example the games Smith were in charge of and Sky was asking him about the game "It's not a must win game" 
When of course it is. 

Yep Pulis consistently called the group of players out - and even got vilified for doing that!

 

As the season has gone on he was completely justified to criticise the identity, character and make up of the squad he inherited.