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1 hour ago, mcmigo said:

Not this season he hasn’t 

 

Dawson has conceded 9 goals in 8 league appearances.

Westwood has conceded 15 goals in 14 league appearances.

 

We picked up 8 points in the 8 games that Dawson has played.

We picked up 18 points in the 14 games that Westwood has played.

 

I'd say that gives us a slightly better record under Westwood. 
 

Unfortunately Dawson has been unable to have the opportunity to improve on his record as he has been injured for months, something Westwood gets a lot of criticism for.......

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His positioning is terrible and he flaps at everything

 

because he refuses to move from his line a header from nearly the edge of the box can beat him where most other keepers would just pick it up or at worst push it round the post  , the slightest deflection leaves him nowhere and qpr are able to cross the ball from distance into our six yard box to cause chaos where any capable keeper would just take a step forward and take the ball.

 

he’s not at fault for the fourth however watch any other capable keeper in the same situation their sprinting of the the line to close the angle when the ball hits the net he’s not a yard off his line 

 

he basically looks like the kid who says I’ll give it a go when your normal goalkeeper doesn’t turn up on a Sunday morning 

 

the lads in his mid 20s now not an up and comer he’s as good as he’s ever going to get and it’s the same mistakes every game whether it costs us or not he’s just nowhere near good enough 

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Never has been and never will be good enough. The most passive goalkeeper and one who lacks Westwood’s anticipation with a complete inability to judge when to come off his line. He knows this and thats why he stays put, leaving a massive target once a shot / header comes in. Around the Luton game, there was a spell of 8 goals conceded in 10 efforts on target. Lukuhay dropped him - remember the goals at home v Birmingham - and Monk kept bringing him backing and then having to drop him. Wont be good enough in League One. How many saves did he make v QPR? If Moore wants us to play out from the back, he cant do that either. Watford TV had him as their best player in the 2nd half as he always found a Watford player. Good luck to the lad and I hope he proves me wrong

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51 minutes ago, Don Penn (pen) said:

Never has been and never will be good enough. The most passive goalkeeper and one who lacks Westwood’s anticipation with a complete inability to judge when to come off his line. He knows this and thats why he stays put, leaving a massive target once a shot / header comes in. Around the Luton game, there was a spell of 8 goals conceded in 10 efforts on target. Lukuhay dropped him - remember the goals at home v Birmingham - and Monk kept bringing him backing and then having to drop him. Wont be good enough in League One. How many saves did he make v QPR? If Moore wants us to play out from the back, he cant do that either. Watford TV had him as their best player in the 2nd half as he always found a Watford player. Good luck to the lad and I hope he proves me wrong

For Dawson,  see Wildsmith. Both not good enough. Both have similar faults 

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As soon as I saw Wildsmith was playing I knew we would lose, especially with Westwood back and fully fit. Cardiff was probably to soon for Westwood even though he was on the bench. 
 

Getting increasingly sick of managers constantly not playing the best players. 
 

Westwood vs Wildsmith isn’t even a debate. 
 

Wildsmith is garbage and always has been. He’s wooden. Sticks to his line and looks far to laid back to be a keeper. Westwood is 10 years older and far more alert still!

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9 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Dawson has conceded 9 goals in 8 league appearances.

Westwood has conceded 15 goals in 14 league appearances.

 

We picked up 8 points in the 8 games that Dawson has played.

We picked up 18 points in the 14 games that Westwood has played.

 

I'd say that gives us a slightly better record under Westwood. 
 

Unfortunately Dawson has been unable to have the opportunity to improve on his record as he has been injured for months, something Westwood gets a lot of criticism for.......

please tell me you aren't counting the Swansea away game where Westwood went off after 5 mins?

 

You also seem to have omitted the "clean shhets" stat which many on here are adamant is the main one in terms of leading to us winning games

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10 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I'd have Howard Pressman

Top man. Gave me a spare Donald Fagen CD once when I was doing a summer sports shift at Hallam FM. 

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The problem with quoting stats is that who is the keeper is probably only a very minor factor. Not withstanding overall tactics around whether we are on the front foot or sitting back, organisation etc, I've just had a look at Dawson's last 5 games for us and in particular who was in front of him

 

QPR...Lees and Van Aken...Shaw went off injured after 3 mins, Palmer at half time. Lees injured towards the end when we have used all subs and we conceed while effectively having 10 men

 

Birmingham....Flint and Van Aken

 

Brentford....Flint and Van Aken

 

Luton...Flint and Van Aken who was sent off with 20 odd mins to go

 

Rotherham...Flint, Borner and Lees. who was sent off before half time

 

I dont care whether it's Dawson. Wiildsmith, Westwood or Banks that is in the net, there are bigger issues at play in those games than the keeper 

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None of our keepers are good at coming off the line.

 

The top keepers now days are sweeper keepers with good footwork, ball control and comfortable in possession.

Our goalkeeper coaches are stuck in the past.

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On 05/04/2021 at 20:27, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

We have more important positions to worry about than the goalkeeping one

Da wot? Good job your not a real inspector :duntmatter:

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36 minutes ago, Owlinmad said:

None of our keepers are good at coming off the line.

 

The top keepers now days are sweeper keepers with good footwork, ball control and comfortable in possession.

Our goalkeeper coaches are stuck in the past.

When you say the top keepers who exactly are you referring to?

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2 hours ago, Ian said:

please tell me you aren't counting the Swansea away game where Westwood went off after 5 mins?

 

You also seem to have omitted the "clean shhets" stat which many on here are adamant is the main one in terms of leading to us winning games

 

The points are the main stat - that's what matters most. Which keeper have we won the most points per game with in goal this season?

 

You know the answer as well as I do. 

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8 hours ago, CourteenerOwl said:

As soon as I saw Wildsmith was playing I knew we would lose, especially with Westwood back and fully fit. Cardiff was probably to soon for Westwood even though he was on the bench. 
 

Getting increasingly sick of managers constantly not playing the best players. 
 

Westwood vs Wildsmith isn’t even a debate. 
 

Wildsmith is garbage and always has been. He’s wooden. Sticks to his line and looks far to laid back to be a keeper. Westwood is 10 years older and far more alert still!

If anything the Cardiff result counted against Westwood. I bet if we won 2-1 we’d have made the change and started him at QPR. The manager made the mistake of wanting to reward all the players who started for pulling off a 5-0 win, and we got punished for it. Westwood will be back in again vs Swansea surely 

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3 hours ago, Ian said:

The problem with quoting stats is that who is the keeper is probably only a very minor factor. Not withstanding overall tactics around whether we are on the front foot or sitting back, organisation etc, I've just had a look at Dawson's last 5 games for us and in particular who was in front of him

 

QPR...Lees and Van Aken...Shaw went off injured after 3 mins, Palmer at half time. Lees injured towards the end when we have used all subs and we conceed while effectively having 10 men

 

Birmingham....Flint and Van Aken

 

Brentford....Flint and Van Aken

 

Luton...Flint and Van Aken who was sent off with 20 odd mins to go

 

Rotherham...Flint, Borner and Lees. who was sent off before half time

 

I dont care whether it's Dawson. Wiildsmith, Westwood or Banks that is in the net, there are bigger issues at play in those games than the keeper 

I can’t remember the last time that Westwood conceded more than 2 goals in a game for us, even in his later years. Which means you’re regularly in the game.. just a shame he’s rarely fit now.

 

On the other hand Dawson and Wildsmith regularly ship 3, 4 or 5 goals which leads to almost certain defeats. While we can’t pin every loss or every goal conceded on them it has to be more than a coincidence. Really think Wildsmith could have done better with the first 3 goals.. a Henderson, Lloris, Ederson, Pope etc doesn’t concede those which means it’s something a keeper could do something about.

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This debates been flogged to death,sign good defenders then we wont be moaning about keepers.

Or just sign good players and dont get relegated.

The buzz word is RECRUITMENT fellas!

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2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I can’t remember the last time that Westwood conceded more than 2 goals in a game for us, even in his later years. Which means you’re regularly in the game.. just a shame he’s rarely fit now.

 

On the other hand Dawson and Wildsmith regularly ship 3, 4 or 5 goals which leads to almost certain defeats. While we can’t pin every loss or every goal conceded on them it has to be more than a coincidence. Really think Wildsmith could have done better with the first 3 goals.. a Henderson, Lloris, Ederson, Pope etc doesn’t concede those which means it’s something a keeper could do something about.

We got hammered 4-1 at millwall in February 

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