Monk on Sky

[83owl]

21 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Izzy Brown has been a massive disappointment. Proper waste of a shirt. And to be honest, if we are real with ourselves, we could have seen it coming. Bloke hasn’t stayed fit at his past three previous teams. Foolish to think he could do it consistently for us this season.

Yeah a big gamble which hasnt payed off at all. Unfortunately given the state of our club we are relying on gamble after gamble to come off just for us to get our heads above water so we can do it again, a bit like an actual gambling addict really. 

[Bluesteel]

56 minutes ago, parajack said:

Players ultimately in my book....

But what about when a manager like Bruce takes Luhukays team and gets them top half? It’s a bit of everything 

[Bluewings]

1 hour ago, 83owl said:

Fletcher was offered  a new contract but he turned it down. Anyone with half a brain could see when he pretended to hobble onto the pitch at the end of last season he had something lined up and was leaving.

 

Izzy Brown hasnt worked out but you look at how he played for Luton he can run games in this division. For us however he cant even run. 

Yep fletcher went. Actually glad he did. Same with Fessi, Fox, Lee etc....there time was up.

 

My point is every recruitment that Monk has done is bobbins.

You can assemble a decent enough squad to survive in this division with a low budget and the right man in charge

Millwall have been doing it for seasons.

 

Izzy Brown hasn't really ever got going here has he...injuries, form, confidence issues...I'm not sure where Monk had

him in mind to play him in a 352 with Bannan as well and no striker to assist.

 

Chainsiri, recruitment....and to an extent Monk can all take flack.

[SallyCinnamon]

5 minutes ago, Bluewings said:

Yep fletcher went. Actually glad he did. Same with Fessi, Fox, Lee etc....there time was up.

 

My point is every recruitment that Monk has done is bobbins.

You can assemble a decent enough squad to survive in this division with a low budget and the right man in charge

Millwall have been doing it for seasons.

 

Izzy Brown hasn't really ever got going here has he...injuries, form, confidence issues...I'm not sure where Monk had

him in mind to play him in a 352 with Bannan as well and no striker to assist.

 

Chainsiri, recruitment....and to an extent Monk can all take flack.

Andre Green signed without a manager. He said he was initially contacted in the summer by David Downes. I’d be very surprised if Monk has much say at all.

[McRightSide]

Comical to see Monk blaming Wildsmith in the press...

[bobness]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Andre Green signed without a manager. He said he was initially contacted in the summer by David Downes. I’d be very surprised if Monk has much say at all.

 

Incredible that despite all evidence of the club doing business with no manager in place, people still believe the manager has a heavy influence on transfers

[parajack]

3 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

But what about when a manager like Bruce takes Luhukays team and gets them top half? It’s a bit of everything 

Come off it mate,i have spent longer in the pie queue,than he and the 'Freds' spent here,his 'record' here counts for nothing,and the bit you leave out is we were challenging for a play off spot,and failed....under him..'top half' with a team that had got to a final,and semi final?  thats a mark of 'success'?

[Bluesteel]

1 hour ago, parajack said:

Come off it mate,i have spent longer in the pie queue,than he and the 'Freds' spent here,his 'record' here counts for nothing,and the bit you leave out is we were challenging for a play off spot,and failed....under him..'top half' with a team that had got to a final,and semi final?  thats a mark of 'success'?

To be fair mate I’ve never been talking about whether any of them were a “success” in that promotion sense, we’ve just been treading water since CC left.it’s whether the squad couldve been clear of relegation last season with a deduction taken at that point which I think it could have with the right management when 3rd at Christmas and with some talented attacking players. Others might disagree which is fair enough but those just saying “it’s chansiri” aren’t incorrect but for me is a bit one dimensional as there have been a few things happening and it’s come together to make a right mess.
 

In terms of how we judge managers more generally though. That squad was very unhappy under JL, Bruce might have only been here for 9 months or so but you’re being selective if you’re trying to discount the reaction he got from the very same team. No one liked how he left but he got a good reaction from that squad to be fair to him.We saw ourselves how he operates and he does it at NUFC now, he says what he has to to both players dna media to benefit him in the immediate term and he’s been around the block. I think Monk and JL were more honest and looked longer term but it didn’t work unfortunately. For the sake of balance, I think SB also found DC very hard to work for and was probably keen to leave.

 

By your own posts JL deserved plaudits for keeping us up the season before and Monk for getting us to third (all in a short timeframe like Bruce) and I’d agree. But by the same token if they are recognised as doing a good job at that point, they can’t be absolved and take no responsibility when it falls apart as they are playing some part of it, they are making decisions and managing/coaching players. I think disagreeing with that is just stubborn at this point and we are just repeating ourselves in any case.

 

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

2 hours ago, bobness said:

 

Incredible that despite all evidence of the club doing business with no manager in place, people still believe the manager has a heavy influence on transfers

It’s mental. 
 

The recruitment team finds players, that’s how it’s always worked under DC. The manager might get the final say, but when we’re desperate for bodies and lacking numbers in key areas - not many managers are going to turn down the opportunity to bring a player in. 
 

Thompson said as much in January. Repeatedly batting off questions about recruitment saying ‘I’ll leave that to the powers that be’. They’ll have very little influence. Heck even bloody Carlos came out and said he didn’t have much influence. And Pulis alluded to it too when he spoke about bringing players in when you fail to get what you actually need. Then Dave Jones came out and said Chansiri blocked a move when Luhukay made it clear he wasn’t going to play! 

 

Honestly how much evidence do people need?! 

[FreshOwl]

I think people are getting lost in the blame game. Blame doesn’t have to be completely attributed to one person, in fact it rarely is in football which is a business with so many variables.

 

And before anyone jumps on me, yes the chairman takes a LARGE portion of that blame. There are many pieces to this jigsaw, but a lot of these pieces aren’t correlated. 
 

For example, I can completely understand that an embargo will effect signings.

 

But that absolutely doesn’t excuse not picking up 1 POINT FROM 16 WINNING POSITIONS.

 

It doesn’t link to the embargo as these players were good enough to take a lead 16 times and throw it away each time, usually in the last 10 mins 

 

Guess what I’m trying to say is that although the points deduction and embargo’s certainly affect things, it’s lazy to put that on absolutely everything that transpires afterwards 

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Bluesteel said:

To be fair mate I’ve never been talking about whether any of them were a “success” in that promotion sense, we’ve just been treading water since CC left.it’s whether the squad couldve been clear of relegation last season with a deduction taken at that point which I think it could have with the right management when 3rd at Christmas and with some talented attacking players. Others might disagree which is fair enough but those just saying “it’s chansiri” aren’t incorrect but for me is a bit one dimensional as there have been a few things happening and it’s come together to make a right mess.
 

In terms of how we judge managers more generally though. That squad was very unhappy under JL, Bruce might have only been here for 9 months or so but you’re being selective if you’re trying to discount the reaction he got from the very same team. No one liked how he left but he got a good reaction from that squad to be fair to him.We saw ourselves how he operates and he does it at NUFC now, he says what he has to to both players dna media to benefit him in the immediate term and he’s been around the block. I think Monk and JL were more honest and looked longer term but it didn’t work unfortunately. For the sake of balance, I think SB also found DC very hard to work for and was probably keen to leave.

 

By your own posts JL deserved plaudits for keeping us up the season before and Monk for getting us to third (all in a short timeframe like Bruce) and I’d agree. But by the same token if they are recognised as doing a good job at that point, they can’t be absolved and take no responsibility when it falls apart as they are playing some part of it, they are making decisions and managing/coaching players. I think disagreeing with that is just stubborn at this point and we are just repeating ourselves in any case.

 

 

 

I think we see things differently mate and have to leave it at that,Bruce simply wasnt here long enough for us to form a judgement on him,dont forget GM  did similarly well for a period of time....There have been multiple reports of player unrest under Bruce at Newcastle  https://thefootballfaithful.com/newcastle-standing-by-bruce-despite-player-unrest/    so like any manager he is no different.

I think where we differ is that i feel GM has had to deal with a situation not of his making,from which no manager(yet) at SWFC has been able to change.....of course they have an important part to play,but no manager since CC  has managed to get this team to consistently perform..Jos,Bully,GM,SB,Thomo,and now DM,,,,win 5-0 than lose 4-1 the following week...?  GM can not be blamed for our recruitment and failure to bring in key players  to stay in this Division.

And the decision of when to apply the points was down to the EFL,even if we had a better points total,it wouldn't necessarily have been applied

[83owl]

23 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

I think people are getting lost in the blame game. Blame doesn’t have to be completely attributed to one person, in fact it rarely is in football which is a business with so many variables.

 

And before anyone jumps on me, yes the chairman takes a LARGE portion of that blame. There are many pieces to this jigsaw, but a lot of these pieces aren’t correlated. 
 

For example, I can completely understand that an embargo will effect signings.

 

But that absolutely doesn’t excuse not picking up 1 POINT FROM 16 WINNING POSITIONS.

 

It doesn’t link to the embargo as these players were good enough to take a lead 16 times and throw it away each time, usually in the last 10 mins 

 

Guess what I’m trying to say is that although the points deduction and embargo’s certainly affect things, it’s lazy to put that on absolutely everything that transpires afterwards 

To be fair at least we had the pleasure of getting into winning positions back then. We tend not to bother nowadays.

[parajack]

7 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

There are several pieces of the puzzle to solve here. A huge and seemingly immovable one being the way DC has operated. But in DM I think he have a positive manager who treats all the players the same and will hopefully play some attacking football. I think we need some stability for a period of time now unless the results are as bad as one or two others in the league below. Then of course there is the players and time will tell if we can get that right but there is a big opportunity this summer to take a step back to go forward. 
 

 

 

Totally agree mate,and mainly for the fans i hope your right...i am concerned myself that despite  large numbers of players  potentially leaving,many others of this failing squad will remain(or be re contracted)

Despite the problems of so many leaving at once ,i personally would like to see a total clear out....early recruitment with a full pre season for DM  to bed in both players and systym.

Crucial to this for me is a 'new' GK....we simply can not hope to achieve anything whilst leaking goals.

[parajack]

50 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

It’s mental. 
 

The recruitment team finds players, that’s how it’s always worked under DC. The manager might get the final say, but when we’re desperate for bodies and lacking numbers in key areas - not many managers are going to turn down the opportunity to bring a player in. 
 

Thompson said as much in January. Repeatedly batting off questions about recruitment saying ‘I’ll leave that to the powers that be’. They’ll have very little influence. Heck even bloody Carlos came out and said he didn’t have much influence. And Pulis alluded to it too when he spoke about bringing players in when you fail to get what you actually need. Then Dave Jones came out and said Chansiri blocked a move when Luhukay made it clear he wasn’t going to play! 

 

Honestly how much evidence do people need?! 

I wonder if DM will be having the final say on players? seems a strange appointment if he doesn't..

 

[Bluesteel]

5 minutes ago, parajack said:

Totally agree mate,and mainly for the fans i hope your right...i am concerned myself that despite  large numbers of players  potentially leaving,many others of this failing squad will remain(or be re contracted)

Despite the problems of so many leaving at once ,i personally would like to see a total clear out....early recruitment with a full pre season for DM  to bed in both players and systym.

Crucial to this for me is a 'new' GK....we simply can not hope to achieve anything whilst leaking goals.

Agreed. I’d like to see many of them moved on if we can, maybe one or two I’d keep but I don’t think they’d want to stay. Definitely no debate on the keepers, we need someone with a bit of attitude and belief between the sticks. Ability would be helpful too