Steve Chu with a few home truths.

[Beauchief Owl]

2 hours ago, 0742 said:

 

No, I'm suggesting that to claim we are in this situation because there's a "massive aura" around the club is ridiculous. As is saying we just need to find players who will run through walls to move forward.

 

That mismanagement has been compounded by the financial rollercoaster and we've been left behind. 

IMO the only applicable use of the word massive to Wednesday, is the need for a massive clear out.

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, Beauchief Owl said:

I agree, but other clubs are smart enough to have them tied down to contracts that enable the club to get a reasonable fee, we don't.

You have to question the likes of Bullen and Thompson here  and why they haven't pushed for Shaw and Urgohide to be given contracts earlier. Could they not see their potential? 

 

Of course, they could see their potential,  but if the agent says we aren't signing anything till see what else is out there, how do you handle that?

[Bluesteel]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Like combining Dele Bashiru and Brown who haven't made breakthrough's at PL clubs with experience like Bannan, Reach and Lees?........................

I think as you say here, our transfer strategy has already shifted to younger targets 

[Guest Therealrealist]

Theres no doubt dc thought we wer bigger than we are when mm mugged him off...reckon he watched that programme when bryan robson was in bangkok tellin everybody swfc was the club to buy..i think he actually said we wer mssive

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Like combining Dele Bashiru and Brown who haven't made breakthrough's at PL clubs with experience like Bannan, Reach and Lees?........................

 

Yep exactly that but two players is a small sample set we probably need many more than that to get to the nuggets.

[Beauchief Owl]

Just now, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Of course, they could see their potential,  but if the agent says we aren't signing anything till see what else is out there, how do you handle that?

They would probably have both signed improved contracts last summer. The point still remains, other clubs manage it better than us but then that's true about most aspects of the way the club is run. Utterly shambolic.

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, Beauchief Owl said:

They would probably have both signed improved contracts last summer. The point still remains, other clubs manage it better than us but then that's true about most aspects of the way the club is run. Utterly shambolic.

 

Which clubs in particular are having success with youngsters in the Championship?  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Yep exactly that but two players is a small sample set we probably need many more than that to get to the nuggets.

 

I'd rather look at up and coming League One players who have made a mark at that level but would see playing for a big club at that level as a step up and a good chance to progress to the Championship rather than sign loads of young kids who have dropped out from PL football with no league experience of note. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I'd rather look at up and coming League One players who have made a mark at that level but would see playing for a big club at that level as a step up and a good chance to progress to the Championship rather than sign loads of young kids who have dropped out from PL football with no league experience of note. 

 

Yep that has to be looked at as well, the secret is signing decent players where ever they come from.

[Beauchief Owl]

Just now, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Which clubs in particular are having success with youngsters in the Championship?  

Barnsley seem to be managing OK.

[flo]

I think Chansiri has actually been a success, without him I think we would be at best 5th division by now. I think fans have an inability to look at this fact objectively but just want more, more, more. 

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 minute ago, Beauchief Owl said:

Barnsley seem to be managing OK.

Any more?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

11 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Like combining Dele Bashiru and Brown who haven't made breakthrough's at PL clubs with experience like Bannan, Reach and Lees?........................

Yes and no.. Dele Bashiru is exactly the profile of player we need to go after. 18-20 years old, not breaking through at a top club but has some attributes that mean he might make the grade. They don’t all have to work out though of course, but if you make 10 signings like that then some of them will do.

 

Brown is a bit different in that he’s older and before we signed him you could see he’s a bit of a nomad with a bad injury record. Definitely not the sort you want to sign unless the wages were dirt cheap as a punt, which I doubt they were 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Yep that has to be looked at as well, the secret is signing decent players where ever they come from.

 

It also helps if you sign players with a plan as to how they will add value to the squad you already have and fit into the style of play you hope to take forward. Been a while since we have done this. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Yes and no.. Dele Bashiru is exactly the profile of player we need to go after. 18-20 years old, not breaking through at a top club but has some attributes that mean he might make the grade. They don’t all have to work out though of course, but if you make 10 signings like that then some of them will do.

 

Brown is a bit different in that he’s older and before we signed him you could see he’s a bit of a nomad with a bad injury record. Definitely not the sort you want to sign unless the wages were dirt cheap as a punt, which I doubt they were 

 

Fair point but how clubs are in a position where they can go out and sign 10 or more players released by PL academies in quick succession, does this happen anywhere else? 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I'd rather look at up and coming League One players who have made a mark at that level but would see playing for a big club at that level as a step up and a good chance to progress to the Championship rather than sign loads of young kids who have dropped out from PL football with no league experience of note. 

How many young players at that level have come through the academy system though and how many who didn’t have started in the lower leagues and eventually made their way up.

 

Id guess that most good players start in academies. Westwood was at Man City then went to Carlisle to make his name, Hutchinson was at Chelsea, Lees at Leeds, Lee at Man Utd then Oldham, Brunt at Boro and then straight here, Whelan at Man City then straight here. These are some of our best players over the last 15 years who were all signed on frees/cheaply.

 

If I was doing the recruiting I’d pick up a combination of 18-20 year olds who are dropping out the academy system, then a group of 21-24 year olds who’ve played a couple of seasons in the lower leagues for someone else after leaving academies and their contracts have run out, and a few older heads too assuming we lose the likes of Bannan and Lees.

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

It also helps if you sign players with a plan as to how they will add value to the squad you already have and fit into the style of play you hope to take forward. Been a while since we have done this. 

 

Managers aren't here long enough to bring a plan to fruition they get a matter of weeks now, if they haven't progressed the club than the fans are soon on his back and the inevitable outcome 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Fair point but how clubs are in a position where they can go out and sign 10 or more players released by PL academies in quick succession, does this happen anywhere else? 

Well I think you wouldn’t do it at Championship level as it’s too risky and you need experience. And at league 1 level most of the competition are on tight budgets. It’s something a big club in the lower leagues could do though 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

How many young players at that level have come through the academy system though and how many who didn’t have started in the lower leagues and eventually made their way up.

 

Id guess that most good players start in academies. Westwood was at Man City then went to Carlisle to make his name, Hutchinson was at Chelsea, Lees at Leeds, Lee at Man Utd then Oldham, Brunt at Boro and then straight here, Whelan at Man City then straight here. These are some of our best players over the last 15 years who were all signed on frees/cheaply.

 

If I was doing the recruiting I’d pick up a combination of 18-20 year olds who are dropping out the academy system, then a group of 21-24 year olds who’ve played a couple of seasons in the lower leagues for someone else after leaving academies and their contracts have run out, and a few older heads too assuming we lose the likes of Bannan and Lees.

 

Sounds like a good approach. Yes there are plenty of those making a mark at lower level that will have come through academies, just as there will be plenty who will have dropped down from academies but don't manage to stand out at that level so in that respect at least they will have been tested and proved themselves to a degree and will still be available for reasonable fees and wages. 

In my opinion there's a better chance of success from that route than signing players unproven in English football on big wages like Van Aken or taking risks on players with recent injury problems like Dunkley and Green, or re-signing aging players like Hutchinson, who our recruitment team deemed not good enough to keep 6 months earlier. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Managers aren't here long enough to bring a plan to fruition they get a matter of weeks now, if they haven't progressed the club than the fans are soon on his back and the inevitable outcome 

 

As we know it is not just managers involved in the process though is it. Prior to this season Chansiri had probably given managers too long. He backed Monk when he could easily have sacked him last season. Little of our summer recruitment suggested a joined up plan.