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Garry Monk “there were a lot of things wrong at SWFC”


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On 27/03/2021 at 11:30, @owlstalk said:

 

 

EXACTLY

Now ask yourself - if Monk was responsible for the players coming in why on earth would he do that?

Answer - he simply wouldn't


There's a bigger picture here (not talking about Chansiri)
Finances 
Points deduction
Relegation scrap
Shocking Shocking 'do not go to Sheffield Wednesday' reputation within football
etc etc

 

Garry Monk wouldn't go out and sign players he wouldn't play in his team

Nor would any other manager


But somehow it keeps on happening to every manager at our football club

You are right, but conversely we can't keep on giving Managers a free pass to failure. Hopefully Moore is going to prove abject failure wasn't the only possible outcome. Hopefully...

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52 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Agree with some of this in that he’s been back involved since game 12 when Pulis took over and over that time the teams form is basically the same as before this time. His record when he’s actually played is better than the other two though, it’s just that he’s been injured too much. He’s always been injury prone but it’s only this season where that’s started to really affect his availability for league games. If he’d actually been fit and played all season we’d have more points than we do now, which I think is Jim’s point but sadly that’s not the case. Sitting at home for a year at age 35 isn’t going to have helped in keeping his body in condition to play professional sport at a high level, so Monk can take some blame for that too.
 

It’s time for him to go at the end of the season. He won’t be on anywhere near £30k but still a lot. 

 

Thing is mate, we concede more goals when Wildsmith and Dawson play. Where as we’re more water tight with Westwood in goal when he’s playing behind arguably the same defenders.That’s the point I was trying to make.

 

Bottom line is in time Westwood will be looked on sometime in the future as a very good goalkeeper who played for us. This won’t be the same for either Wildsmith or Dawson.

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On 25/03/2021 at 10:30, matthefish2002 said:

I can understand why they dont but would love for Monk, Pulis or Bruce to go into detail about the problems they found behind the scenes at the club.

non disclosure agreements I would guess with hefty threats if they spill the beans. That could be why nobody who has left the club has ever really come out and spoken the whole truth about how the club is run. I think what we hear from Monk's comments is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Glenn59 said:

non disclosure agreements I would guess with hefty threats if they spill the beans. That could be why nobody who has left the club has ever really come out and spoken the whole truth about how the club is run. I think what we hear from Monk's comments is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

 

Think enough has come out to get a vibe we are run in a very dysfunctional way.

That report on why we were given a points deduction was an eye opener on how we are run in such an amateur way.

Although it didn't make the EFL look in a good light either.

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4 hours ago, Jim said:

 

I shouldn’t bite because I know what’ll be coming over the mountain as soon as I click submit reply.

 

Monk has admitted to making mistakes? You’ve obviously got his phone number as I haven’t seen him publicly admitting to anyone his mistakes?

 

His biggest one was to dump Westwood and go into this season with Dawson and Wildsmith as first choice keepers which points deduction aside is why we’ll be relegated this season. 

 

I agree not everything wrong at this club is Monk’s fault but we’re in an even bigger mess for his time in charge here. The fact statistically his time here is worse than Kos Lukuhay’s says it all.

 

If you want to have a pop back, in my best John Inman voice, ‘feel freeeeeee’


 

Jim still obsessed with Monk despite us having four managers since who have done worse 

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Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Glenn59 said:

non disclosure agreements I would guess with hefty threats if they spill the beans. That could be why nobody who has left the club has ever really come out and spoken the whole truth about how the club is run. I think what we hear from Monk's comments is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

 

I'd be cautious about accepting Tony Pulis' side of the story without question even if he gave it, but the speed with which he clearly lost faith in the situation was alarming. 

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4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


 

Jim still obsessed with Monk despite us having four managers since who have done worse 

 

 

And you’re still obsessed with telling everyone about it. And if you think Thompson did worse than Monk then you are really taking the p!$$.

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Just now, DJMortimer said:

 

I'd be cautious about accepting Tony Pulis' side of the story without question even if he gave it, but the speed with which he clearly lost faith in the situation was alarming. 

I agree, but ever since Chansiri came into the club nobody who has left has actually come out and spilled the beans. Pulis is basically Michael Gove in a tracksuit so he doesn't matter

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Just now, Glenn59 said:

I agree, but ever since Chansiri came into the club nobody who has left has actually come out and spilled the beans. Pulis is basically Michael Gove in a tracksuit so he doesn't matter


 

 

Confidentiality clauses guarantee nobody will say anything 


 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:


 

 

Confidentiality clauses guarantee nobody will say anything 

by nothing being said the deafening silence speaks volumes

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On 02/04/2021 at 13:07, Jim said:

 

I shouldn’t bite because I know what’ll be coming over the mountain as soon as I click submit reply.

 

Monk has admitted to making mistakes? You’ve obviously got his phone number as I haven’t seen him publicly admitting to anyone his mistakes?

 

His biggest one was to dump Westwood and go into this season with Dawson and Wildsmith as first choice keepers which points deduction aside is why we’ll be relegated this season. 

 

I agree not everything wrong at this club is Monk’s fault but we’re in an even bigger mess for his time in charge here. The fact statistically his time here is worse than Kos Lukuhay’s says it all.

 

If you want to have a pop back, in my best John Inman voice, ‘feel freeeeeee’

 

Glad I kept way for a while after coming back and reading so much rubbish being spouted by people that ought to know better. If you expect to see any comments from Monk apologising for dropping somebody at the club, in a situation that you know nothing about, just because it did not agree with your opinion, you will be waiting forever.

 

BTW Monk apologised by saying, "The responsibility is all mine and I understand that it's bitterly frustrating", and often tried to deflect attention away from players, but more often than not had to apologise for things that were not his responsibility and were way beyond his control, which most of us could see and have commented on way before he, or any of the press/pundits came out and said it for him!

 

Fact (not my opinion), we are not in a relegation spot because Monk played Dawson and Wildsmith instead of Westwood. We had one of the best defences in the division when Monk was sacked, despite having so many defenders and defensive midfield player out of the team. We are where we are because we did not replace all the strikers and attacking players that left with more strikers, or with similar quality attackers. 

 

Playing younger players like Wildsmith and Dawson, instead of Westwood was not the reason we are where we are now, we kept 5 clean sheets in the 12 games under Monk (and were minutes away from 6, or 7 in a couple of the games, one in which we lost three defenders in one game and finished a player short when we conceded because Tom Lees finally had to leave the pitch), so how does that make Westwood the player that could have kept us from relegation in the other 7 games under Monk (when we did not keep a clean sheet)? Incidentally apart from those 5 clean sheets under Monk in just 12 games, we have only kept 7 clean sheets in the 27 games since then and Westwood only got 3 of those the other 4 were won with Wildsmith in the net. So despite the two young goalies being a bit raw and still making mistakes, with our attacking players failing to score goals, they have done their part keeping 9 of our 12 clean sheets, whether playing under Monk or not.

 

Monk also played other young players in those first 12 games too like Hunt, Shaw, Dele Bashiru, Penney, (Brennan & Waldock in the cup), at a time when the new players were still finding their feet and our defence was rarely the same especially during the spell that ultimately cost Monk his job.

 

Monk is nobody's hero at SWFC, but I think he was right in saying what he did about the setup of the club, especially regarding player retention, player recruitment etc, because those are the big failings of our club that have put us in this position. There are far more famous people than the people on here who have expressed the same, or similar views to me, that back up what Monk said about the club and the fact that it is now seen as a poisoned chalice for managers and players. Even players that are fans of the club are leaving and going to play for other clubs because they realise that this club is in a mess and has been in a mess for a years. NO manager, or head coach can change that on his own, not Monk, not Jos, not Bruce, not Pulis and not even Darren Moore if he does not get the backing of his chairman, his boss and the owner of the club. Is that alright with you? Nothing contentious there, although the facts are contrary to your opinion feel free to have another pop at me and my posts, but I am happy that at least my posts are based on real facts, not unfounded rumours or jumping on popularity bandwagons.

 

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23 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Glad I kept way for a while after coming back and reading so much rubbish being spouted by people that ought to know better. If you expect to see any comments from Monk apologising for dropping somebody at the club, in a situation that you know nothing about, just because it did not agree with your opinion, you will be waiting forever.

 

BTW Monk apologised by saying, "The responsibility is all mine and I understand that it's bitterly frustrating", and often tried to deflect attention away from players, but more often than not had to apologise for things that were not his responsibility and were way beyond his control, which most of us could see and have commented on way before he, or any of the press/pundits came out and said it for him!

 

Fact (not my opinion), we are not in a relegation spot because Monk played Dawson and Wildsmith instead of Westwood. We had one of the best defences in the division when Monk was sacked, despite having so many defenders and defensive midfield player out of the team. We are where we are because we did not replace all the strikers and attacking players that left with more strikers, or with similar quality attackers. 

 

Playing younger players like Wildsmith and Dawson, instead of Westwood was not the reason we are where we are now, we kept 5 clean sheets in the 12 games under Monk (and were minutes away from 6, or 7 in a couple of the games, one in which we lost three defenders in one game and finished a player short when we conceded because Tom Lees finally had to leave the pitch), so how does that make Westwood the player that could have kept us from relegation in the other 7 games under Monk (when we did not keep a clean sheet)? Incidentally apart from those 5 clean sheets under Monk in just 12 games, we have only kept 7 clean sheets in the 27 games since then and Westwood only got 3 of those the other 4 were won with Wildsmith in the net. So despite the two young goalies being a bit raw and still making mistakes, with our attacking players failing to score goals, they have done their part keeping 9 of our 12 clean sheets, whether playing under Monk or not.

 

Monk also played other young players in those first 12 games too like Hunt, Shaw, Dele Bashiru, Penney, (Brennan & Waldock in the cup), at a time when the new players were still finding their feet and our defence was rarely the same especially during the spell that ultimately cost Monk his job.

 

Monk is nobody's hero at SWFC, but I think he was right in saying what he did about the setup of the club, especially regarding player retention, player recruitment etc, because those are the big failings of our club that have put us in this position. There are far more famous people than the people on here who have expressed the same, or similar views to me, that back up what Monk said about the club and the fact that it is now seen as a poisoned chalice for managers and players. Even players that are fans of the club are leaving and going to play for other clubs because they realise that this club is in a mess and has been in a mess for a years. NO manager, or head coach can change that on his own, not Monk, not Jos, not Bruce, not Pulis and not even Darren Moore if he does not get the backing of his chairman, his boss and the owner of the club. Is that alright with you? Nothing contentious there, although the facts are contrary to your opinion feel free to have another pop at me and my posts, but I am happy that at least my posts are based on real facts, not unfounded rumours or jumping on popularity bandwagons.

 

 

You have your opinion, I’ll have mine.

 

Seeing you like facts. Here’s one for you. Sheffield Wednesday 5 Cardifff City 0 - Manager. Darren Moore.

 

Oh Wildsmith kept a clean sheet, I’ll give you that one 😀

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53 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Glad I kept way for a while after coming back and reading so much rubbish being spouted by people that ought to know better. If you expect to see any comments from Monk apologising for dropping somebody at the club, in a situation that you know nothing about, just because it did not agree with your opinion, you will be waiting forever.

 

BTW Monk apologised by saying, "The responsibility is all mine and I understand that it's bitterly frustrating", and often tried to deflect attention away from players, but more often than not had to apologise for things that were not his responsibility and were way beyond his control, which most of us could see and have commented on way before he, or any of the press/pundits came out and said it for him!

 

Fact (not my opinion), we are not in a relegation spot because Monk played Dawson and Wildsmith instead of Westwood. We had one of the best defences in the division when Monk was sacked, despite having so many defenders and defensive midfield player out of the team. We are where we are because we did not replace all the strikers and attacking players that left with more strikers, or with similar quality attackers. 

 

Playing younger players like Wildsmith and Dawson, instead of Westwood was not the reason we are where we are now, we kept 5 clean sheets in the 12 games under Monk (and were minutes away from 6, or 7 in a couple of the games, one in which we lost three defenders in one game and finished a player short when we conceded because Tom Lees finally had to leave the pitch), so how does that make Westwood the player that could have kept us from relegation in the other 7 games under Monk (when we did not keep a clean sheet)? Incidentally apart from those 5 clean sheets under Monk in just 12 games, we have only kept 7 clean sheets in the 27 games since then and Westwood only got 3 of those the other 4 were won with Wildsmith in the net. So despite the two young goalies being a bit raw and still making mistakes, with our attacking players failing to score goals, they have done their part keeping 9 of our 12 clean sheets, whether playing under Monk or not.

 

Monk also played other young players in those first 12 games too like Hunt, Shaw, Dele Bashiru, Penney, (Brennan & Waldock in the cup), at a time when the new players were still finding their feet and our defence was rarely the same especially during the spell that ultimately cost Monk his job.

 

Monk is nobody's hero at SWFC, but I think he was right in saying what he did about the setup of the club, especially regarding player retention, player recruitment etc, because those are the big failings of our club that have put us in this position. There are far more famous people than the people on here who have expressed the same, or similar views to me, that back up what Monk said about the club and the fact that it is now seen as a poisoned chalice for managers and players. Even players that are fans of the club are leaving and going to play for other clubs because they realise that this club is in a mess and has been in a mess for a years. NO manager, or head coach can change that on his own, not Monk, not Jos, not Bruce, not Pulis and not even Darren Moore if he does not get the backing of his chairman, his boss and the owner of the club. Is that alright with you? Nothing contentious there, although the facts are contrary to your opinion feel free to have another pop at me and my posts, but I am happy that at least my posts are based on real facts, not unfounded rumours or jumping on popularity bandwagons.

 

Good post and aside from that; what Monk said about us was true. 

 

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1 minute ago, Jim said:

 

You have your opinion, I’ll have mine.

 

Seeing you like facts. Here’s one for you. Sheffield Wednesday 5 Cardifff City 0 - Manager. Darren Moore.

 

Oh Wildsmith kept a clean sheet, I’ll give you that one 😀

 

I like to think that we are all friends on here, you know just one big rarely all happy family, you know, a bit twee, but all wanting the best for our shared love. It would be sad and boring if we all felt exactly the same about everything, it is our differences that make these sites worthwhile after all.

 

I just do not like to see people being blamed for stuff that I do not think they were personally responsible for and I know that Monk got a lot of stick on here for things that he could not control, but others could, like signings and contract renewals, because DC has continued to keep the control of that dodgy side of things away from his head coaches. Monk was not the world's best at anything really was he. He was not the world's best motivator, or tactician etc, but he was here at a very bad time for us as a club, when several of our favourites for the job turned it down and other than the amazing Mr Moore I do not believe that any of the replacements could have done any better over the past two difficult seasons and I actually think that Monk with his defensive record early on in the season, could actually have improved a little as the players returned, or settled in, along with the attacking new coaches like Beatty and co and could possibly have done a bit better than having all the upheaval we have had swapping from one to another with each new man making mistakes in their first few games as they get to know the players and what they can and cannot do.  There is not enough evidence to convince either side of the argument is there really, but I do know that we are firmly in a mess right now and it is going to be a close fought battle right to the end and although my brain says we are down, as a typical Wednesdayite something else says that we might just scrape it and I am going with that unless it becomes impossible!

 

I think Westwood did well when he came in and would possibly have kept a clean sheet too because the defence work was very good right through the team 😉.

 

UTO!

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

I like to think that we are all friends on here, you know just one big rarely all happy family, you know, a bit twee, but all wanting the best for our shared love. It would be sad and boring if we all felt exactly the same about everything, it is our differences that make these sites worthwhile after all.

 

I just do not like to see people being blamed for stuff that I do not think they were personally responsible for and I know that Monk got a lot of stick on here for things that he could not control, but others could, like signings and contract renewals, because DC has continued to keep the control of that dodgy side of things away from his head coaches. Monk was not the world's best at anything really was he. He was not the world's best motivator, or tactician etc, but he was here at a very bad time for us as a club, when several of our favourites for the job turned it down and other than the amazing Mr Moore I do not believe that any of the replacements could have done any better over the past two difficult seasons and I actually think that Monk with his defensive record early on in the season, could actually have improved a little as the players returned, or settled in, along with the attacking new coaches like Beatty and co and could possibly have done a bit better than having all the upheaval we have had swapping from one to another with each new man making mistakes in their first few games as they get to know the players and what they can and cannot do.  There is not enough evidence to convince either side of the argument is there really, but I do know that we are firmly in a mess right now and it is going to be a close fought battle right to the end and although my brain says we are down, as a typical Wednesdayite something else says that we might just scrape it and I am going with that unless it becomes impossible!

 

I think Westwood did well when he came in and would possibly have kept a clean sheet too because the defence work was very good right through the team 😉.

 

UTO!

 

 

 

I understand to a certain extent the support Monk has from certain quarters and I’m as aware as anyone that most of the problems here aren’t down to him. I’m just judging him as a manager and regardless of the whys and wherefores he failed here, very much in the same way by and large he’s failed everywhere else. It would take a very brave but more than likely a very stupid Chairman to give him another chance in management?

 

As for us and Moore. That performance on Monday was one that was made on the training ground. And that is the difference between Moore and a lot of our most recent managers, he works with players and tries to improve them. If Monk had tried to do the same and had everyone pulling together rather than against each other who knows?

 

Regardless of the run-in, we now have a manager who could well go on to be one of our greats if he’s given time and support by us and the owner?

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1 hour ago, Jim said:

 

I understand to a certain extent the support Monk has from certain quarters and I’m as aware as anyone that most of the problems here aren’t down to him. I’m just judging him as a manager and regardless of the whys and wherefores he failed here, very much in the same way by and large he’s failed everywhere else. It would take a very brave but more than likely a very stupid Chairman to give him another chance in management?

 

As for us and Moore. That performance on Monday was one that was made on the training ground. And that is the difference between Moore and a lot of our most recent managers, he works with players and tries to improve them. If Monk had tried to do the same and had everyone pulling together rather than against each other who knows?

 

Regardless of the run-in, we now have a manager who could well go on to be one of our greats if he’s given time and support by us and the owner?

We had some excellent results under Monk as well, including winning at Premier League Brighton away.

 

Moore will do as well as Monk did here, assuming he is subject to the same 'working conditions'.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim said:

As for us and Moore. That performance on Monday was one that was made on the training ground. And that is the difference between Moore and a lot of our most recent managers, he works with players and tries to improve them. If Monk had tried to do the same and had everyone pulling together rather than against each other who knows?

Good post and whilst I agree with you. Darren Moore has had the benefit of being able to bring his own team in with him from the start. Monk wasn't given that opportunity for far too long and he was effectively on his own.

It's been quite clear that despite DMs absence due to covid his team know exactly how he works and his methodology enabling a consistent message and method from his whole team.

 

Whilst Monks time wasn't anything special I'm convinced we would have been clear from relegation by now.

 

That said I think we'll still have been average next season had monk remained and we need to aim higher than average.

 

I think in the long run DM will prove to be a better proposition as far as ambition and progression.

 

There's too many what ifs for monk. I do feel a little sorry for him. He was here at the wrong time and who knows what he could have done with full backing from the off.

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