Garry Monk “there were a lot of things wrong at SWFC”

[parajack]

6 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

If by succeed you mean stay up, I don’t think we will. Longer term, Chansiri needs to change his ways, managers (be it Moore or whoever) need to build a younger dynamic team, stop playing people out of position, stop rushing them back from injury, try to build a footballing side. Regards these players, most need to go. Many have overstayed and survived too many managers. Some have gone stale. Some may be damaged by this rollercoaster ride we’ve been on.

 

I will add one thing...it’s no good taking ageing overpaid players into league one, licking their wounds feeling sorry for themselves thinking they’re too good for that division. We’ll need new blood and fresh faces up for the challenge.

 BB,TL,Reach all been offered new contracts,rumours 'Hutch' may get one too.....job done eh? just needs 'Westy' and the jobs a good un..

[@owlstalk]

8 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

If by succeed you mean stay up 

I dont' mean stay up
I mean succeed in any meaningful way

[Huncho]

8 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

*Manager joins SWFC*
 

Manager: Hi Mr Chairman, squad isn’t very good we need to sign some new players.

 

Chairman: Ok no worries my recruitment team will work on targets.

 

Manager: Fantastic! Here is a list of players I think we need to be successful.

 

Chairman: Oops forgot to say! We’re under an embargo, points deduction looming and we’ve got no money to spend.

 

Manager: Ahh ok, so are the targets out of budget?

 

Chairman: Yes most likely. But we can bring you in Callum Paterson, Jack Marriott and Kachunga. Their clubs don’t want them and they’re cheap!

 

Manager: Hmm not sure they’re very good. How about those targets I suggested, no chance of getting at least a couple of them in?

 

Chairman: Nope no money. Callum Paterson or nothing.

 

Manager: Ahh but I’m not sure we’ll be successful with those players, they’re not really what we need or good enough.

 

Chairman: Them or nothing.

 

Manager: Ok ok I’ll take them i suppose.

 

*Wednesday end up in relegation zone*
 

Fans: MANAGER’S FAULT ALL MANAGERS FAULT.

 

Andddd repeat. Let’s hope Moore break the cycle eh? 

None of the players signed came with bad reputations and all were deemed good enough for this division with the experience to back it up 

Patterson  

Windass  

Kachunga  

Luongo  

Harris  

Brown  

Dunkley  

Marriott  

Green  

Flint  

 

 

 

[Guest wilyfox]

2 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

The squad has got worse. We’ve gone from players like Joao, Fletcher and Forestieri to Paterson, Kachunga and Marriott. That’s down to reduced investment.

Obviously. We’re living out the consequences of mass over-spend the first 3yrs. Should still be staying up with what we have though. That’s why you have to look at everything else in the mixing pot as well for explanations.

[Guest wilyfox]

6 minutes ago, parajack said:

 BB,TL,Reach all been offered new contracts,rumours 'Hutch' may get one too.....job done eh? just needs 'Westy' and the jobs a good un..

And they’d all pose problems on the pitch and financially unless we could sell.

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, Huncho said:

None of the players signed came with bad reputations and all were deemed good enough for this division with the experience to back it up 

Patterson  

Windass  

Kachunga  

Luongo  

Harris  

Brown  

Dunkley  

Marriott  

Green  

Flint  

 

 

 

Ok I’ll pick this apart for you.

 

Paterson - not wanted by Cardiff in the same league as us. Signed to replace Fletcher as the ‘target man’ despite being a right back transformed into a make shift striker. 
 

Windass - not wanted by a struggling Wigan side.

 

Luongo - yes on paper good player. But always injured. Cynic in me believes we got sold a dud and QPR knew full well his best days were behind him. Did we do the due diligence on this deal?

 

Kachunga - not wanted by a struggling Huddersfield team in the same league. Scored about 4 goals in 3 years. Is he good enough? Best days behind him for sure.

 

Harris - had never played more than 25 games in a season before joining us. Not wanted by a Cardiff side in the same division.

 

Brown - reputation of being always injured. Hardly a surprise he’s hardly featured.

 

Dunkley - signed with a broken leg. Enough said.

 

Marriott - not wanted by a poor Derby side.

 

Green - without a club for 6 months. Why?

 

Flint - yes a good signing but again injured. Perhaps unlucky on this one.

 

All the players above we signed off past reputation. And THIS IS THE PROBLEM. As a club we have a fixation on signing has beens and players on what they have done in the past, not on what they could become. We sign them with no resale value. They’re players who had a good season or two but were ultimately not wanted by their club. 
 

All past 25, no resale value and signed with no real plan or design in mind.

 

They’re stinking signings mate. 

[Guest wilyfox]

7 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I dont' mean stay up
I mean succeed in any meaningful way

Then all I’ve said. 
Chansiri: change ways or sell up.

Club: reconnect with fans.

Manager: build a young dynamic team.

Players: high turnover. New chapter with players that aren’t tainted by our current plight. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

6 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

The squad has got worse. We’ve gone from players like Joao, Fletcher and Forestieri to Paterson, Kachunga and Marriott. That’s down to reduced investment and failure to sell players when they have value to reinvest in quality. Instead we’ve been scrapping around for players other clubs don’t want. 

We employ a recruitment team, which is great. But what are they doing? Why haven’t they signed anyone with genuine resale value and quality? We’ve signed a sea of crap. 
 

Iorfa the only good signing we’ve made in 4 years and we’ve signed about 18 players in that period. 
 

This is down to the chairman. If the recruitment team is failing, replace them and get a new one. That’s HIS responsibility. 

The chairman has hamstrung us for about 4 years now since summer 2017, but it’s only this season where we’ve reached the critical point where the squad isn’t good enough. Last season and before we still had enough quality for the top half so were never in danger of going down despite things having gotten quite stale.

 

This season we started on -12 (reduced to -6) and we lost some good players in the summer. So odds were against us. That said, I still think relegation was 50/50 and it would have been possible to keep us up given the players still here plus the budget provided for new players from the chairman.

 

So managers and recruitment teams have to take some responsibility for it because they haven’t done a good job. For the amount we’ve paid out on Windass, Paterson, Marriott, Brown and Kachunga it would have been possible to sign some ok players. There’s also been nothing stopping the managers playing the best striker at the club in Rhodes yet many of them have chose not to.

 

Chansiri is reaping what he’s sowed by consistently cutting costs over a number of years but the managers have also been inept. A good one would have kept us up this season despite all of the problems in the background 

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

The chairman has hamstrung us for about 4 years now since summer 2017, but it’s only this season where we’ve reached the critical point where the squad isn’t good enough. Last season and before we still had enough quality for the top half so were never in danger of going down despite things having gotten quite stale.

 

This season we started on -12 (reduced to -6) and we lost some good players in the summer. So odds were against us. That said, I still think relegation was 50/50 and it would have been possible to keep us up given the players still here plus the budget provided for new players from the chairman.

 

So managers and recruitment teams have to take some responsibility for it because they haven’t done a good job. For the amount we’ve paid out on Windass, Paterson, Marriott, Brown and Kachunga it would have been possible to sign some ok players. There’s also been nothing stopping the managers playing the best striker at the club in Rhodes yet many of them have chose not to.

 

Chansiri is reaping what he’s sowed by consistently cutting costs over a number of years but the managers have also been inept. A good one would have kept us up this season despite all of the problems in the background 

Do you really think that? Logic dictates that any manager would have struggled. Literally the past 4 years have shown that. Sure in isolation managers perhaps could have done more to change a game or get three points - but ultimately they would have failed because we’ve got a really poor squad with clear deficiencies throughout. 
 

Do I think for one minute it was a conscious choice by Monk to go into the season without a replacement for Fletcher? Not a chance. The chairman and his recruitment team completely let him down by failing to sign a focal point up top to replace our talisman. Instead they chucked him Jack Marriott on deadline day - who was quite clearly and panic buy. 

[@owlstalk]

 

 

Honestly if I were Chansiri and suddenly had a pang of guilt about my performance as chairman over the last 5 years and thought I'd hold my hands up and change my ways, one quick read through this thread would tell me really clearly that there'd be no need as there are fans out there just excusing away any calamatous decisions I make!

Literally untouchable!

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Do you really think that? Logic dictates that any manager would have struggled. Literally the past 4 years have shown that. Sure in isolation managers perhaps could have done more to change a game or get three points - but ultimately they would have failed because we’ve got a really poor squad with clear deficiencies throughout. 
 

Do I think for one minute it was a conscious choice by Monk to go into the season without a replacement for Fletcher? Not a chance. The chairman and his recruitment team completely let him down by failing to sign a focal point up top to replace our talisman. Instead they chucked him Jack Marriott on deadline day - who was quite clearly and panic buy. 

Yeah I think that if we’d sacked Monk last February after Brentford then brought in a manager like Warnock or McCarthy and given them input on transfers, that despite the points deduction and the budget that was available we could have stayed up.

 

I don’t buy in to the thinking that it was a foregone conclusion and there’s nothing any manager could have done. The margins were tight, yes.. so we couldn’t afford mistakes in signing players, in team selections and in tactics. Unfortunately Monk and the recruitment team have just made too many mistakes and we’re falling on the wrong side of those margins 

[SallyCinnamon]

As a club we knew full well the likes of Forestieri, Fletcher, Lee and Fox were probably going to leave at the end of last season.

 

As a club we should have been planning for this at least two years before. Either looking to move them on for money or scouting to find their replacements. We did neither. We let them run down their contracts and failed to replace them in the summer. 
 

That’s on the chairman. 

[Guest wilyfox]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

fans out there just excusing away any calamatous decisions I make!

I’ve certainly not done that. I’ve criticised Monk in a Monk thread. I’ve also knocked Chansiri for his actions.

 

Like you, I hope relegation (assuming it happens) would make Chansiri take stock & refect. He seriously needs to.

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Yeah I think that if we’d sacked Monk last February after Brentford then brought in a manager like Warnock or McCarthy and given them input on transfers, that despite the points deduction and the budget that was available we could have stayed up.

 

I don’t buy in to the thinking that it was a foregone conclusion and there’s nothing any manager could have done. The margins were tight, yes.. so we couldn’t afford mistakes in signing players, in team selections and in tactics. Unfortunately Monk and the recruitment team have just made too many mistakes and we’re falling on the wrong side of those margins 

People said the same about Pulis when he joined.

 

That didn’t work out well? 
 

Warnock and McCarthy aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have joined Wednesday under this chairman. That’s why I’m very surprised Pulis did. But equally I wasn’t surprised when Pulis clearly threw the towel in after 10 games. Not worth risking his reputation. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, wilyfox said:

I’ve certainly not done that. I’ve criticised Monk in a Monk thread. I’ve also knocked Chansiri for his actions.

 

Like you, I hope relegation (assuming it happens) would make Chansiri take stock & refect. He seriously needs to.

 

He totally does mate - agreed

I don't think he will but hope he does with all my heart

Either that or he needs to clear off and never come back

[@owlstalk]

 

One thing is for sure

 

The future autobiographies of players and managers is going to be a right eye opener isn't it

 

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

8 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

People said the same about Pulis when he joined.

 

That didn’t work out well? 
 

Warnock and McCarthy aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have joined Wednesday under this chairman. That’s why I’m very surprised Pulis did. But equally I wasn’t surprised when Pulis clearly threw the towel in after 10 games. Not worth risking his reputation. 

Well when Pulis came in a lot of the damage was done in that we’d had the transfer window and we’d signed garbage. He then made loads of mistakes like playing 1 up.. it just wasn’t working. The change needed to be made before the season started really 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

More context to it tho isn’t there.

 

Our plummet down the table coincided with Fletcher getting injured and Chansiri deciding not to pay the players on time.

 

I’m by no means a big Monk fan but since Carlos got sacked, not one manager has succeeded at Wednesday. Perhaps the issue is greater than the man in the dugout? 

 

Playing Forestieri at wing-back in one of his few appearances, trying to turn Reach into a striker and personally scouting Da Cruz and picking him ahead of others didn't help matters. All decisions made by the manager.

 

Nobody is saying the major problems don't go above 1st team management level, just that some managers haven't done a great job of trying to mitigate the chaos.   

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Well when Pulis came in a lot of the damage was done in that we’d had the transfer window and we’d signed garbage. He then made loads of mistakes like playing 1 up.. it just wasn’t working. The change needed to be made before the season started really 

Agreed but I do wonder if Pulis was promised players in the transfer window. He kept banging on about needing 2 or 3 players but ultimately they never arrived and he fell out with the chairman. 

 

If we signed a left back, CM and target man in January under Pulis I’m completely confident we would have been safe.

 

If we were never going to back him with players in January, it was just a completely nonsensical appointment.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

People said the same about Pulis when he joined.

 

That didn’t work out well? 
 

Warnock and McCarthy aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have joined Wednesday under this chairman. That’s why I’m very surprised Pulis did. But equally I wasn’t surprised when Pulis clearly threw the towel in after 10 games. Not worth risking his reputation. 

 

He was sacked. 

What reputation does he have? Because the majority of our fans didn't want him and his reputation managing us in the first place.