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Why Sheffield (the city)?


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Guest Hornsby

From Crookes, this is a really, really good question. 

 

Being a border city puts us at a disadvantage economically, like Hull, Bradford, Plymouth etc.

 

Footy wise, Liverpool were an exception as Littlewoods funded both clubs in city before big business came in.

 

Our owners pre Milan were mainly local lads made good but small scale, most were very insular with  poor education and nous limited to their chosen successfull field.

 

Applying that to footy is hard, even with dosh as Chansiri shown.

 

Thankfully, city on up now with digital economy , thanks lee Stafford, and outside cultural influence and investment, like massive Chinese investment on London Rd ...cheers, Hallam University for that.

 

And i can now get Hendersons sent anywhere in world, via web.

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8 hours ago, Blatter said:

Poorer area of the country, 

Working class city

Two club city

Population insufficient to support two clubs.

 

Nah it’s all rubbish

Take Liverpool. and compare

Just as poor

Just as working class

Two club city

Even smaller population.

 

The only difference is desperately poor management over the last four decades.

 

liverpool the city doesnt have other clubs in as close proximity to ours, as well as united we have 4 other local clubs in our catchment area. 

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11 minutes ago, soultime said:

liverpool the city doesnt have other clubs in as close proximity to ours, as well as united we have 4 other local clubs in our catchment area. 

 

Plus, Merseyside, Greater Manchester and Tyne and Wear all have twice the population density of South Yorkshire.

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Just pure bad luck combined with self serving and short sighted boards for both clubs.

In the 90's, both clubs were in the Prem and with Euro '96 in Sheffield, there was a real buzz about the city.

It felt like the city was sat  at the top table, football wise and was actually comfortable with it.

But then both clubs and their boards saw the money that was available to feather their own personal nests with and left both sets of fans holding the bag.

We can be a great city again with both clubs in the top flight, especially as it feels like Sheffield itself is shedding it's old skin as a dark industrial town to become a bright, green and forward looking city for the modern age.

We just need to shake off the self-flagellating mindset to match.

To paraphrase Morpheus, ' don't just think we're capable of better. Know we are'.

 

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11 hours ago, Shot down in flames. said:

I honestly think we as a club will never shake off the horror of what happened in the cup semi final, it’s a ball and chain that will never leave this club, you think Sheffield Wednesday then you think Hillsborough, and Hillsborough,  Hysel, the Valley and Bradford will always be things that are remembered as the darkest days of the game alongside others. I love my club but that will always hold us back

Utter tripe 

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8 hours ago, Blatter said:

Poorer area of the country, 

Working class city

Two club city

Population insufficient to support two clubs.

 

Nah it’s all rubbish

Take Liverpool. and compare

Just as poor

Just as working class

Two club city

Even smaller population.

 

The only difference is desperately poor management over the last four decades.

 

You forget that a lot of the success on Merseyside in the 60s, 70s & 80s was directly funded by the Pools companies. Its no coincidence that when the National Lottery came into being people stopped doing the pools and Liverpools period of dominance came to an end.

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8 hours ago, Blatter said:

Nah it’s all rubbish

Take Liverpool. and compare

Just as poor

Just as working class

 

South Yorkshire is one of the poorest areas in the whole of the UK and Northern Europe

 

Liverpool isn't as poor in anyway, shape or form

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13 hours ago, hangonrose said:

I was born in Sheffield, so it's a place very dear to my heart.  But why is it that football in this city - apart from the odd sparkly season, like we've had and the other lot have had - is unsuccessful?  Why aren't we like Manc or Liverpool, or N London?  We can get the crowds to match any city, but why do we manage to make a mess of it?

 

How many players come here and are sold for a profit?  Very few.  Next season, we'll have a Championship and a League 1 side more than likely.

 

There must be something in the air or it's the people which puts the mockers on consistency.  Brentford?  Barnsley?  How come they get it and we don't?

 

Have I missed something?  Are our supporters like dementors, sucking the life out of the soul of the club?  It's a recurring theme though.

 

Either club should attract the money men, judging by the crowds either club can generate, and invest accordingly.  Why are people queuing up to buy Ipswich?  Derby?   and the list goes on.

 

Please put me straight....thanks 

Not just Sheffield, all of Yorkshire

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8 hours ago, lanzaroteowl said:

 

Sheffield has always been a backwater city.

Just one example, how many tv shows/dramas or sitcoms have been based in the city?

It's just not seen as cool.

 

Maybe, but a successful music industry should have changed that To some extent it did, when a lot of the local musicians came out with their love for the club. Living down here, I saw it at first hand, suddenly we were part of the youngsters conversation. Not in a Man Utd, Liverpool sort of way, but in a more alternative hip crowd sort of way. I started to see that within a certain sector, we were becoming everyone’s second favourite team However, this really had nothing to do with anything the club did. In fact most of what the club did, worked against us being popular. That first season under Carlos, was when it all looked like coming together, new found younger fans, a super cool coach, who was media savvy, and an exciting team, seemingly on the up. That was as good as it got though. 
At the end of the day, it’s success on the field that will put the club in the limelight, but certainly the club has lessons to learn when it comes to growing the fan base We are not a modern club

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Northern towns/cities are at an automatic disadvantage because economic and industrial reforms in the 70s/80s crippled us all. Manchester and Liverpool got through that period football-wise because they had already built an impressive footballing reputation that brought in money from other parts of the country and abroad. That allowed them to ride out the widening of the north/south divide - it was just about timing and recent footballing success as to which cities rowed through it. 

 

Leeds, Newcastle, Sunderland etc in the north did well because they were one-club cities. 

 

Sheffield had to contend with being a two-club city (not including semi-professional) *and* being hit with major economic damage. 

 

Manchester City were mainly attractive to investors because of Manchester United and the money and interest that could generate, plus the new stadium. All the London clubs had 'being in the capital' as a major advantage. 

 

Then, many years later, when these effects had lead to teams like SW punching below their historical weight, these teams got attention as 'sleeping giants' with large attendances etc, and that brought a fresh wave of attention from foreign owners who could see potential for a profitable resurgance story and a bunch of loyal fans to exploit on the way. 

 

Basically, the city of Sheffield is not at fault. It's a victim IMO of the widening of the North/South divide and just happens to feel it harder in footballing terms because it's one of not many Northern two+ club cities when you exclude Manchester and Liverpool, who were lucky at the time. 

It hit us in Barnsley too. We've spent more seasons than any other club in the second tier of English football, but in the last couple of decades we've struggled between the second and third tiers, because the local economy just hasn't been there. We're obviously enjoying this season, but we've become pretty used to the basement battle over the years. We seem to have good owners with a long term plan now, but that's pure pot luck. 

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13 hours ago, Mcguigan said:

Statements like your “ We can get the crowds to match any city “ are part of problem. 

Been like that for both sets of fans, totally deluded about our attendance figures compared to the big clubs. In the last 60 seasons, that's 120 for both clubs, the 30000 average has been touched 3 times, us twice and the blunts 3 times. It's alright talking about the occasional big crowd once in a blue moon but realistically we as a city are not the great fans we like to think in numbers, but in passion and commitment we're as good as anybody.

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I love Sheffield, love going back to Sheffield but I moved away over 20 years ago ("for a year"), and never came back. 

 

Sheffield has a major confidence crisis, and it's reflected in the footy among other things.

 

Someone mentioned the airport; for me this was the moment in modern times that Sheffield gave up trying to be a city and relegated itself to a regional town.  I now live in the south-west, I have airports in Bristol, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Exeter, with Birmingham and Heathrow not a million miles away.  Sheffield, the 4th (or 5th depending) largest city in England built an airport from scratch (with a half-runway, just short enough to stop any real ambition), and then got rid of it for £1.   Bonkers.  No ambition.

 

Step off the train into the Steel City, marvel at the steel water-wall.  Made in China.  

 

People say Sheffield is now modernising.  I disagree.  If getting a lot of student flats is modernising, so be it.  I'm not seeing any modern industry that is sustaining growth for lots of people,  apart from the Advanced Business Park that is our current shining glory (and yes, still our steel we produce, but see above).  Leeds is making a name for itself in finance and pensions and media, Manchester for sports and media.   Liverpool is somewhat trading on its past but it's kept itself relevant through football that didn't collapse when its industry did.  It kept being bold.  We receded when Thatcher told us to.  I have visited Liverpool a few times.  it just so happened, when I was last there, a beautiful Cunard cruise ship alongside (what I'm told), the most recognisable city-scape in the world,   the city was buzzing with tourists.   The city was alive, full of life everywhere. 

 

Sheffield is actively pursuing the shrinking of the city, and pushing it towards the Moor.    The reason?  It can't sustain the city the way it was.  The reason it can't sustain is because it doesn't have the wealth.  It doesn't have the wealth because it doesn't have the industry.

 

All these other Northern cities have a broader international appeal.  Even Hull became a City of Culture (and it was ******** brilliant, we'd have trodden ourselves to the ground about it).  

 

What is Sheffield doing?  What is Sheffield actively doing to say "This is Sheffield, this is what we do, this is who we are".  Nothing.

 

It's hard to sell something that no-one wants, so you end up with the chancers.  I don't believe Chansiri had ever heard of Sheffield before.  I don't believe the Prince had heard of Sheffield either.   I do believe that the Glazers of this world had heard of Manchester, Liverpool et al.

 

Rant over.

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12 minutes ago, Zarostulus said:

Northern towns/cities are at an automatic disadvantage because economic and industrial reforms in the 70s/80s crippled us all. Manchester and Liverpool got through that period football-wise because they had already built an impressive footballing reputation that brought in money from other parts of the country and abroad. That allowed them to ride out the widening of the north/south divide - it was just about timing and recent footballing success as to which cities rowed through it. 

 

Leeds, Newcastle, Sunderland etc in the north did well because they were one-club cities. 

 

Sheffield had to contend with being a two-club city (not including semi-professional) *and* being hit with major economic damage. 

 

Manchester City were mainly attractive to investors because of Manchester United and the money and interest that could generate, plus the new stadium. All the London clubs had 'being in the capital' as a major advantage. 

 

Then, many years later, when these effects had lead to teams like SW punching below their historical weight, these teams got attention as 'sleeping giants' with large attendances etc, and that brought a fresh wave of attention from foreign owners who could see potential for a profitable resurgance story and a bunch of loyal fans to exploit on the way. 

 

Basically, the city of Sheffield is not at fault. It's a victim IMO of the widening of the North/South divide and just happens to feel it harder in footballing terms because it's one of not many Northern two+ club cities when you exclude Manchester and Liverpool, who were lucky at the time. 

It hit us in Barnsley too. We've spent more seasons than any other club in the second tier of English football, but in the last couple of decades we've struggled between the second and third tiers, because the local economy just hasn't been there. We're obviously enjoying this season, but we've become pretty used to the basement battle over the years. We seem to have good owners with a long term plan now, but that's pure pot luck. 

good post

 

the likes of your lot have cost us

 

why couldn't you be like the people of Durham and not make a football club and get behind Wednesday lol

 

I always think we've done well compared to the likes of Newcastle and Sunderland, they have such large catchment areas. Similar with Leeds. They're big places with actual towns/cities around them that don't have clubs of any note.

 

In SY everyone has a team and we're all a pretty similar level.

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2 minutes ago, Manwë said:

I love Sheffield, love going back to Sheffield but I moved away over 20 years ago ("for a year"), and never came back. 

 

Sheffield has a major confidence crisis, and it's reflected in the footy among other things.

 

Someone mentioned the airport; for me this was the moment in modern times that Sheffield gave up trying to be a city and relegated itself to a regional town.  I now live in the south-west, I have airports in Bristol, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Exeter, with Birmingham and Heathrow not a million miles away.  Sheffield, the 4th (or 5th depending) largest city in England built an airport from scratch (with a half-runway, just short enough to stop any real ambition), and then got rid of it for £1.   Bonkers.  No ambition.

 

Step off the train into the Steel City, marvel at the steel water-wall.  Made in China.  

 

People say Sheffield is now modernising.  I disagree.  If getting a lot of student flats is modernising, so be it.  I'm not seeing any modern industry that is sustaining growth for lots of people,  apart from the Advanced Business Park that is our current shining glory (and yes, still our steel we produce, but see above).  Leeds is making a name for itself in finance and pensions and media, Manchester for sports and media.   Liverpool is somewhat trading on its past but it's kept itself relevant through football that didn't collapse when its industry did.  It kept being bold.  We receded when Thatcher told us to.  I have visited Liverpool a few times.  it just so happened, when I was last there, a beautiful Cunard cruise ship alongside (what I'm told), the most recognisable city-scape in the world,   the city was buzzing with tourists.   The city was alive, full of life everywhere. 

 

Sheffield is actively pursuing the shrinking of the city, and pushing it towards the Moor.    The reason?  It can't sustain the city the way it was.  The reason it can't sustain is because it doesn't have the wealth.  It doesn't have the wealth because it doesn't have the industry.

 

All these other Northern cities have a broader international appeal.  Even Hull became a City of Culture (and it was ******** brilliant, we'd have trodden ourselves to the ground about it).  

 

What is Sheffield doing?  What is Sheffield actively doing to say "This is Sheffield, this is what we do, this is who we are".  Nothing.

 

It's hard to sell something that no-one wants, so you end up with the chancers.  I don't believe Chansiri had ever heard of Sheffield before.  I don't believe the Prince had heard of Sheffield either.   I do believe that the Glazers of this world had heard of Manchester, Liverpool et al.

 

Rant over.

We do have an airport in Doncaster mate

 

Sheffield does have an identity I think, it's just not as good as what people think (reclaimed industrial buildings) 

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5 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

We do have an airport in Doncaster mate

 

Sheffield does have an identity I think, it's just not as good as what people think (reclaimed industrial buildings) 

And don't forget we are the City Of Sanctuary, this has made the city great as well as all the student accommodation for all our local students. Gives you a warm tug inside.

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Donny is mostly for Thompson Holidays to Benidorm and a few cities in Poland.  

 

I can (or could) fly from Bristol to most major cities in Europe.   Bristol is used by business-folk and for those looking for a city break.  I've flown in and out of Bristol around 30 times.  The planes coming into Bristol are usually a mixture of nationalities looking to spend time and money in Bristol.  It may sound strange to us, but Bristol is a weekend break for plenty of Europeans.  There are also flights to New Jersey from Bristol.

 

The Sheffield City airport flew to Amsterdam and Dublin internationally IIRC.  Just those two alone expand the mind and thoughts of people, both in Sheffield and further afield about Sheffield.

 

DSA passenger numbers are 1.5m for 2019.  Bristol its 8.7m for 2018.  That's 7m more people going through little Bristol than Sheffield.   That's 7m people with money in their pockets.

 

Sheffield City Airport was a true City airport, minutes away from the centre.

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11 minutes ago, Manwë said:

I love Sheffield, love going back to Sheffield but I moved away over 20 years ago ("for a year"), and never came back. 

 

Sheffield has a major confidence crisis, and it's reflected in the footy among other things.

 

Someone mentioned the airport; for me this was the moment in modern times that Sheffield gave up trying to be a city and relegated itself to a regional town.  I now live in the south-west, I have airports in Bristol, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Exeter, with Birmingham and Heathrow not a million miles away.  Sheffield, the 4th (or 5th depending) largest city in England built an airport from scratch (with a half-runway, just short enough to stop any real ambition), and then got rid of it for £1.   Bonkers.  No ambition.

 

Step off the train into the Steel City, marvel at the steel water-wall.  Made in China.  

 

People say Sheffield is now modernising.  I disagree.  If getting a lot of student flats is modernising, so be it.  I'm not seeing any modern industry that is sustaining growth for lots of people,  apart from the Advanced Business Park that is our current shining glory (and yes, still our steel we produce, but see above).  Leeds is making a name for itself in finance and pensions and media, Manchester for sports and media.   Liverpool is somewhat trading on its past but it's kept itself relevant through football that didn't collapse when its industry did.  It kept being bold.  We receded when Thatcher told us to.  I have visited Liverpool a few times.  it just so happened, when I was last there, a beautiful Cunard cruise ship alongside (what I'm told), the most recognisable city-scape in the world,   the city was buzzing with tourists.   The city was alive, full of life everywhere. 

 

Sheffield is actively pursuing the shrinking of the city, and pushing it towards the Moor.    The reason?  It can't sustain the city the way it was.  The reason it can't sustain is because it doesn't have the wealth.  It doesn't have the wealth because it doesn't have the industry.

 

All these other Northern cities have a broader international appeal.  Even Hull became a City of Culture (and it was ******** brilliant, we'd have trodden ourselves to the ground about it).  

 

What is Sheffield doing?  What is Sheffield actively doing to say "This is Sheffield, this is what we do, this is who we are".  Nothing.

 

It's hard to sell something that no-one wants, so you end up with the chancers.  I don't believe Chansiri had ever heard of Sheffield before.  I don't believe the Prince had heard of Sheffield either.   I do believe that the Glazers of this world had heard of Manchester, Liverpool et al.

 

Rant over.

Some good points there  In relation to spread of the University, that is starting to change the face of Sheffield. The city now feels a lot younger than it did when I was living there, so in theory everything is there for us to grow a new fan base. At the same time though, the club has become less relevant to the younger generation. This new generation won’t just rock up every other week, like the diehards used to. We have an ageing fan base, and can’t just rely on tradition to bring in the youngsters

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Bad luck and bad management meaning missed opportunities. 

 

I always consider the 93 finals as a marked turning point for the club. At that point we were doing a lot right, sorted out the messes of the lower leagues and were considered a force, with a very good squad. We had a great potential. 

 

We finished that season 7th. Arsenal finished 10th. Both had good young squads backed up by one of England's finest strikers, and a ground of around 38,000. Losing that FA cup final put Arsenal into the cup winners cup. Which they won. The reputation and money from which enabled them to invest in better players (Bergkamp etc), and attract Wenger. We started to make mistakes. Bad signings we couldn't fund, poor sales returns. Lack of investment in training and the ground. Which lead to us being out of the PL at the worst time.

 

Not saying things would have been reversed if we'd won - London has a bigger draw, and Arsenal had been champions only 2 years before but I do wonder. 

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