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1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

 

Jakupović

Odubajo      Dawson      Davies       Robertson

Elmohamady   Livermore         Huddlestone   Snograss

Diame
Hernández

 

That, objectively, was just a much, much better team than ours was. Most of those players have had lengthy Premier League careers, even got a Champions League winner.

 

There's no combination we could have picked that would match them, so we were always relying on luck or at least something strange happening.

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Just now, Emerson Thome said:

That, objectively, was just a much, much better team than ours was. Most of those players have had lengthy Premier League careers, even got a Champions League winner.

 

There's no combination we could have picked that would match them, so we were always relying on luck or at least something strange happening.

 

And yet, that very year...

We adjusted our tactics to face an arsenal side with about International 300 caps by changing our midfield shape and came out winners. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

That, objectively, was just a much, much better team than ours was. Most of those players have had lengthy Premier League careers, even got a Champions League winner.

 

There's no combination we could have picked that would match them, so we were always relying on luck or at least something strange happening.


Pre match I did predict a 1-0 defeat, even Diame scoring the only goal. They were a stronger team. The galling thing though, is that we didn’t even make it a real contest.

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Just now, Lord Snooty said:

 

And yet, that very year...

We adjusted our tactics to face an arsenal side with about International 300 caps by changing our midfield shape and came out winners. 

 

 

An Arsenal team playing one of their least important games of the season, compared to a Hull side playing their most important.

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1 minute ago, Emerson Thome said:

An Arsenal team playing one of their least important games of the season, compared to a Hull side playing their most important.

 

And what?

Players that are selected don't try and get to the quarter finals? 

 

 

image.png.180a906c1baef92bfa52abceaa7822c1.png

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32 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said:

I’d watch it but I’ll watch a video of my childhood sweetheart getting rifled by a bloke I hate instead. It’ll be less painful.

Sorry pal I thought I'd had that video taken down lol

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1 minute ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

And what?

Players that are selected don't try and get to the quarter finals? 

 

 

Of course they wanted to win. But it was hardly a big game for them, and they treated it as such, giving gametime to some rusty players who hadn't played or weren't fully match fit or were out of form. This backfired as 2 Arsenal players then both limped off within the first 20 minutes. They made 9 changes from their previous game and only 3 of that team played the much more important game the week after against Bayern Munich.

 

I would suggest this game ranked somewhere below:

 

38 Premier League

8 Champions League 

5 FA Cup

and 1 Community Shield game,

 

So, would suggest it was the 53rd most important Arsenal had that season.

 

Unfortunately Hull weren't as accommodating.  It was their biggest game of the season and they were objectively better than us (9 pts over the course of the season, 13 goals better goal difference).

 

This myth, that pops up on here from time to time, that picking fringe player Alex Lopez over Hutchinson would have magically made us a better team needs calling out. We were inferior all over the pitch.

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46 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

Of course they wanted to win. But it was hardly a big game for them, and they treated it as such, giving gametime to some rusty players who hadn't played or weren't fully match fit or were out of form. This backfired as 2 Arsenal players then both limped off within the first 20 minutes. They made 9 changes from their previous game and only 3 of that team played the much more important game the week after against Bayern Munich.

 

I would suggest this game ranked somewhere below:

 

38 Premier League

8 Champions League 

5 FA Cup

and 1 Community Shield game,

 

So, would suggest it was the 53rd most important Arsenal had that season.

 

Unfortunately Hull weren't as accommodating.  It was their biggest game of the season and they were objectively better than us (9 pts over the course of the season, 13 goals better goal difference).

 

This myth, that pops up on here from time to time, that picking fringe player Alex Lopez over Hutchinson would have magically made us a better team needs calling out. We were inferior all over the pitch.

 

I accept it wasn't Arsenals biggest game.

 

But do you not think our changed tatics played any part in that victory?

Do you think we'd have still won 3-0 if we hadn't  changed our formation and system? 

 

Equally, it's not just suggesting  López for Hutchinson against Hull making us magically better.

 

Matching their central 3 whether that be López or Hutchinson would have given us a better foothold in the game. 

Hutchinson and Lee spent 75 minutes chasing shadows as a triumvirate of Huddlestone, Livermere and Diame played triangles around us until such stage Hutchinson had to be withdrawn absolutely spent.

 

image.png.4954c5299341a04c7b2506e787cb7a65.png

 

Again, Dawson booked after ten minutes. With Forestieri running at him from a deeper position we could have caused them all sorts of trouble.

 

As it is we played him as a central striker where he could do little, in a man to man aerial contest. And much of our play was aerial as our outnumbered midfield had little time or space to find a passing rhythm

 

Again with Forestieri playing down the middle instead of that effective attacking left birth it allowed Odubajo the freedom of the pitch to bomb on and cause us a lot of problems down that flank. 

Especially  to Bannan, shunted to the left who had trouble from the deeper position stopping moses when he'd got a head of steam up in ina foot race.

 

Perhaps with Fernando stationed out there Moses would have had to think twice about abandoning his defensive duties? 

It made me think twice. 

 

In fact id go as far as to say that defending is the weakest part of moses's game and that we have we witnessed ourselves what a catastrophe it can be when a wide attacker runs inside him. 

 

With Forestieri pinning their full back in and making those brilliant direct runs in at their centre halves, where he was always such a menace and a wizard. And with a compact midfield which compete with theirs....I still think we could have won that game.

 

image.png.cd54bae2ccf914632f97fc5efabe9b4d.png

 

Hull were the better team. Albeit they still needed a wonder goal. 

 

Would Diame have found that space..?

 

They were better.

But we could have done more to stifle them, and indeed, try and beat them?

I think we could.

 

To say our tactics played no part is pure folly, in my opinion.

 

But there we go.

 

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20 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I accept it wasn't Arsenals biggest game.

 

But do you not think our changed tatics played any part in that victory?

Do you think we'd have still won 3-0 if we hadn't  changed our formation and system? 

 

Equally, it's not just suggesting  López for Hutchinson against Hull making us magically better.

 

Matching their central 3 whether that be López or Hutchinson would have given us a better foothold in the game. 

Hutchinson and Lee spent 75 minutes chasing shadows as a triumvirate of Huddlestone, Livermere and Diame played triangles around us until such stage Hutchinson had to be withdrawn absolutely spent.

 

image.png.4954c5299341a04c7b2506e787cb7a65.png

 

Again, Dawson booked after ten minutes. With Forestieri running at him from a deeper position we could have caused them all sorts of trouble.

 

As it is we played him as a central striker where he could do little, in a man to man aerial contest. And much of our play was aerial as our outnumbered midfield had little time or space to find a passing rhythm

 

Again with Forestieri playing down the middle instead of that effective attacking left birth it allowed Odubajo the freedom of the pitch to bomb on and cause us a lot of problems down that flank. 

Especially  to Bannan, shunted to the left who had trouble from the deeper position stopping moses when he'd got a head of steam up in ina foot race.

 

Perhaps with Fernando stationed out there Moses would have had to think twice about abandoning his defensive duties? 

It made me think twice. 

 

In fact id go as far as to say that defending is the weakest part of moses's game and that we have we witnessed ourselves what a catastrophe it can be when a wide attacker runs inside him. 

 

With Forestieri pinning their full back in and making those brilliant direct runs in at their centre halves, where he was always such a menace and a wizard. And with a compact midfield which compete with theirs....I still think we could have won that game.

 

image.png.cd54bae2ccf914632f97fc5efabe9b4d.png

 

Hull were the better team. Albeit they still needed a wonder goal. 

 

Would Diame have found that space..?

 

They were better.

But we could have done more to stifle them, and indeed, try and beat them?

I think we could.

 

To say our tactics played no part is pure folly, in my opinion.

 

But there we go.

 

 

It is a well argued theory m'lud and you make a compelling case.

 

But I'm not sure your suggestions are too different to the tactics we used on the day. Forestieri's average position was wider than Bannan's. Our formation is listed notionally as 4-4-1-1, but Forestieri did kind of play off the left. Certainly with the licence to roam and join the midfield. It certainly wasn't a traditional 4-4-2.

 

If Forestieri had gone even wider, then Hooper would have been even more isolated.

 

I see you're suggesting we should have gone with Joao instead of Hooper. I wonder if that is a bit of hindsight vision. We all know now that Joao is a proven Championship striker, but back in 2016 he had faded badly in the second half of the season and hadn't scored since 13th February. It would have been a very brave move to drop our best striker for someone, undoubtedly talented, but who was maddeningly inconsistent and not really considered a big game player.

 

I still think with that 4-5-1 setup, Lopez would still have been outgunned physically by Diame, and Hull's five very physical, very technically accomplished midfielders, supplemented by two energetic and pacy fullbacks would have caused us a lot of problems. And in Abel Hernandez had a 20-goal a season striker, something we haven't had since Hirst & Bright.

Screenshot 2021-03-05 at 16.02.14.png

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FF not playing on the left was the biggest mistake Carlos made that day. 

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It was the season after we really screwed it up.  Huddersfield and Reading to get to the Premier League.  No better chance than that from a Play Off Semi position.

 

In reality we were major under dogs v Brighton and Hull.  Brightons injuries and suspensions really helped us.

 

A good pointer for the final would be to pick a joint 11 from both teams and it would be dominated by Hull City players.  Realistically maybe Westwood, Lee and Hooper and possibly a firing FF get in the starting 11 if the 4-5-1 formation is adopted.  Even Odubajo gets in as he was a really good player then. 

 

Loovens & Lees get close as a partnership to Davies and Dawson but not quite.

 

Westwood

 

Odubajo

Robertson

Davies

Dawson

 

Huddlestone 

Snodgrass

Diame

Lee (just in front of Livermore)

Forrestieri

 

Hooper

 

 

 

 

 

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To get to a play off final, on the brink of a return to the prem league, far exceeded any expectations I had at the start of the season so wasn't going to be too distraught at a loss as we'd waited years for a day out! I just wish that we had attacked more and managed a goal, even if it meant losing 2-1, just to hear the roof come off. Similar to this season, just hope for a goal! 

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I'd never actually seen it, until I saw some highlights on TV recently. I didn't see the two legs of the Play-off Semis the following year against Huddersfield either. On both occasions I was on holiday abroad and didn't have access to a TV. I think I must've been lucky.

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22 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

It is a well argued theory m'lud and you make a compelling case.

 

But I'm not sure your suggestions are too different to the tactics we used on the day. Forestieri's average position was wider than Bannan's. Our formation is listed notionally as 4-4-1-1, but Forestieri did kind of play off the left. Certainly with the licence to roam and join the midfield. It certainly wasn't a traditional 4-4-2.

 

If Forestieri had gone even wider, then Hooper would have been even more isolated.

 

I see you're suggesting we should have gone with Joao instead of Hooper. I wonder if that is a bit of hindsight vision. We all know now that Joao is a proven Championship striker, but back in 2016 he had faded badly in the second half of the season and hadn't scored since 13th February. It would have been a very brave move to drop our best striker for someone, undoubtedly talented, but who was maddeningly inconsistent and not really considered a big game player.

 

I still think with that 4-5-1 setup, Lopez would still have been outgunned physically by Diame, and Hull's five very physical, very technically accomplished midfielders, supplemented by two energetic and pacy fullbacks would have caused us a lot of problems. And in Abel Hernandez had a 20-goal a season striker, something we haven't had since Hirst & Bright.

 

Screenshot 2021-03-05 at 16.02.14.png

 

 

Agree Hooper would have been isolated. That's why I wouldn't have picked him. Houses for courses.

Joao was nothing then like is now. I'd have simply put him in because of his ability and him being the best for the role required that day. Nothing against Hooper, I liked him. Lovely footballer. But the way I'd have lined us up, he'd not have fitted what I wanted for the team. Joao would. 

Not revisionism to say I thought and always have Hooper is better as one of those forwards that drops in and links play - which is actually  well highlighted by your graphic.  It natural game.

 

 

López might have got outdone physically. I wouldn't have been averse to Hutchinson sitting in there with Lee and Bannan.

Though I'll never not believe our ball retention with him as an extra man in there wouldn't have been better. 

 

As you say. Hull had, overall, a better squad. 

But ill never not think we could have done more.

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Sadly I knew within 20 mins it wasn't going to be our day.. Huddlestone ran the match from pretty much the centre circle.. FF ran himself ragged in the first half an hour and we posed pretty much no threat whatsoever.... thanks for posting this chap!! 😀

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1 hour ago, punkskaphil said:

I'd never actually seen it, until I saw some highlights on TV recently. I didn't see the two legs of the Play-off Semis the following year against Huddersfield either. On both occasions I was on holiday abroad and didn't have access to a TV. I think I must've been lucky.

 

What about the Brighton away leg?

 

Genuinly the last time I was genuinly worried for my health watching a football match. So intense. 

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