Earlsfieldowl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Carlos had no record of success at any club - he was never the right manager to take us up. When Gray left we had a golden opportunity to get a recognised manager in with a track record of success. We had cash and all the right ingredients. DC fell for CC’s charm and the rest is, as they say, history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: Carlos had no record of success at any club - he was never the right manager to take us up. When Gray left we had a golden opportunity to get a recognised manager in with a track record of success. We had cash and all the right ingredients. DC fell for CC’s charm and the rest is, as they say, history. Charming his way to the Portuguese cup final this week with his team above Porto and Benfica in the league table and enjoying the best couple of seasons in the history of the club. Who do you think we could have attracted as manager at that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bark1062 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: I'd have have fancied Hargreaves to get us to Wembley with Forestieri, Wallace, Bannan, Lee, Loovens. The team was full of football intelligence at the peak of their careers. Would hardly call any of these intelligent, in playoff final Dawson gets booked after 10 mins for dragging Forestieri down. We should have been all over him after that he’d have been off in the first half. We never went near him though. Carlos don’t get me started on him. Many pundits thought the talent he had available we should have been doing much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bark1062 said: Would hardly call any of these intelligent, in playoff final Dawson gets booked after 10 mins for dragging Forestieri down. We should have been all over him after that he’d have been off in the first half. We never went near him though. Carlos don’t get me started on him. Many pundits thought the talent he had available we should have been doing much better. That’s fookwit, clueless pundits for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bark1062 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, gurujuan said: That’s fookwit, clueless pundits for you Was hardly getting the best out of the talent he had available in his 2nd season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Bark1062 said: Was hardly getting the best out of the talent he had available in his 2nd season. 81 points, terrible season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: 81 points, terrible season. In spite of all the “talent” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: Maybe Carlos had that in mind, hence our interest in Piazon? Certainly, had we managed to bring in Carvalho, he would have solved the beast in midfield, so many of us thought we needed. What the same Carvalho that moved for almost 15m to Real Betis about a season later. We were never getting him were we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said: Charming his way to the Portuguese cup final this week with his team above Porto and Benfica in the league table and enjoying the best couple of seasons in the history of the club. Who do you think we could have attracted as manager at that time? Portuguese league..Better than Scotland and possibly on par with the Dutch League but it’s hardly Serie A. Ok, so ..What did he achieve before he took the job with us? How many trophies etc. How many clubs did he manage before us ? On average for how long each? All I am saying is that his record did not inspire confidence he could take us up. It had quintessential journeyman written all over it. He spotted an opportunity here and took it - fair dues. To your second question - Based on the fact we had a new chairman with money and ambition, I’d say we were in a reasonable position to attract some of the better mangagers in the league or lower Prem if we’d down the ground work, identified the right ones and gone for them properly - which of course we didn’t. History books will record we lost the playoff final with a lifeless performance and lost out over two semis to mediocre opponents in similar fashion following season. His stint at Swansea only underscored he wasn’t up to it when the chips were down. Noting against him at all but Portugal is clearly his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chow Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Bannan playing out wide still makes me shudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: What the same Carvalho that moved for almost 15m to Real Betis about a season later. We were never getting him were we. Maybe not, but we had just been beaten at Wembley, and had the Portuguese connections. At the time, Carvalho had lost his way a bit and we could have nicked him for a lot less. In the end, our Portuguese connections were not as strong as Wolves who managed to entice some big names to Molyneux All water under the bridge now, but Carlos clearly identified what we needed. In the end we spent a lot more on players we didn’t need 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 6 hours ago, Django said: You need a good manager to get out of this league, good players alone isn’t enough like pleat ,megson jones , jewell ,wilson and pulis ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: Portuguese league..Better than Scotland and possibly on par with the Dutch League but it’s hardly Serie A. Ok, so ..What did he achieve before he took the job with us? How many trophies etc. How many clubs did he manage before us ? On average for how long each? All I am saying is that his record did not inspire confidence he could take us up. It had quintessential journeyman written all over it. He spotted an opportunity here and took it - fair dues. To your second question - Based on the fact we had a new chairman with money and ambition, I’d say we were in a reasonable position to attract some of the better mangagers in the league or lower Prem if we’d down the ground work, identified the right ones and gone for them properly - which of course we didn’t. History books will record we lost the playoff final with a lifeless performance and lost out over two semis to mediocre opponents in similar fashion following season. His stint at Swansea only underscored he wasn’t up to it when the chips were down. Noting against him at all but Portugal is clearly his level. That assumes that chairman with money and ambition, knew what to do with it The thing with Carlos, he took the nucleus of the squad that never looked like challenging under Gray, and improved them as players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gurujuan said: That assumes that chairman with money and ambition, knew what to do with it The thing with Carlos, he took the nucleus of the squad that never looked like challenging under Gray, and improved them as players. Gray kept a mediocre underinvested side in the Champ, finishing a creditable middtable after Jones lost the plot/interest. CC got funding and an opportunity in a way Gray never did, so the comparison isn’t a fair one. One can only speculate what Gray would have achieved if he’d stayed. CC got us playing some good football at times (Arsenal game always stands out) but I never felt he would get us up - his record never hinted he could do it and so it proved. Edited March 4, 2021 by Earlsfieldowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 I liked Carvalhal at the time, in hindsight he left us with the legacy of giving the grunters their best day out in 40 years and a shambolic two leg tie against a side we should have beaten, those play off's should have been his last games as our manager. The biggest error the club made was not getting the signings right in the close season after Wembley, to this day I still don't know who was or is responsible for recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Jackie Sewell said: I know we all blame Mr C for the current predicament, and rightly so, but thinking of the squad we had around 15/16, assembled entirely with the money he poured into the club, how did we possibly manage to avoid automatic promotion ? Can't blame him or his advisors for that. You only get one shot, two at the most, to buy yourselves out of the Championship. I don't see any club now, even Norwich, who have the embarrassment of riches we had. Hull beat us in the final and we were still fielding Jeremy Helan. still...where are Hull now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 17 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: Gray kept a mediocre underinvested side in the Champ, finishing a creditable middtable after Jones lost the plot/interest. CC got funding and an opportunity in a way Gray never did, so the comparison isn’t a fair one. One can only speculate what Gray would have achieved if he’d stayed. CC got us playing some good football at times (Arsenal game always stands out) but I never felt he would get us up - his record never hinted he could do it and so it proved. Yes, I suppose it was an unfair comparison We brought in some decent players in year one, without really paying outlandish fees Think only Forestieri and Hooper cost us decent money. We spent more in year two, and hardly improved the side. That’s where things started to go wrong. Carlos hardly used the players he so obviously didn’t want, and instead, devised a new way of playing Those new tactics may not have been pleasing on the eye, although compared to now, it was wonderful, but they achieved a 4th place finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkastav Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 The league was alot better quality 2016-18, we did as well as could be expected in my view, bar the hudders surrender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUMBELOWS91 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 We didnt go up because we were lacking exactly what we said we were after the play off final - a top class target man and a beast in midfield. Fletcher couid have been the target man if he's stayed fitz but we never signed the linf of midfielder we needed and the rest is history 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 hours ago, StudentOwl said: This is known as "revisionist history" Especially when you consider Loovens was the real heart of our side. Proper captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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