Celtic

[Guest T Hardy]

2 hours ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Celtic have millions of fans worldwide.

 

Leicester don't.

 

Celtic have a much much bigger fanbase 

Always I think this discussion will come back to how you define big and even fans. In the traditional sense, yes Celtic have more supporter clubs worldwide. Leicester have a much larger social media following worldwide. Yeah a lot who follow on social media won’t be fans, but if you look at those that interact and post, they are fans. But for every person who ‘follows’ Leicester because they won the league, I’m sure you’ve got someone who says they’re a Celtic supporter because their grandad was Irish. One is the modern way of following a team, the other is a more old fashioned way, I think it’s hard to compare them and say in 2021 which counts the most.

[Guest T Hardy]

1 hour ago, edinburghowl said:

Do you think Burnley, Fulham and Brighton are bigger clubs than Wednesday?

Probably have to consider other factors here, as that is different to comparing a Premier League club that has seen their growth go through the roof with a stale declining Scottish club, where the main merits we can throw their way is history. Right now it seems clear cut to those reading this that Celtic are way bigger, but I’d like to see a debate on it in 10-15 years time when we’ve seen the continued growth of the Premier League, and the continued decline of Scottish football - I can imagine we’re going to be in a position where Celtic and Rangers are even less relevant. 
 

Back to Wednesday vs Burnley/Brighton/Fulham. I think the zero recent (up to 40 years) history of those teams and that most would consider them lower league clubs still, would put them lower down than us, but probably not by much. I’d be loathed to say we are wayyyy bigger than Burnley.
 

However ask me again in 10-15 years if we just linger between League One and the Championship, and one of those teams wins the Premier League and increases all modern ways of measuring their fan base ten times over, I’d find it hard to say well yeah we are still way bigger, when we’ve got 10,000 watching us in League One and most people worldwide have heard of our city neighbours and not us. 

[Guest T Hardy]

40 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I think Celtic in PL would become world's biggest club, if football continued to grow in the U.S. They would be the club of all the Irish Americans. Rangers would also be massive for similar reasons. They embody national identity which is something not many other clubs around the world have. 

I think that’s a stretch. The Boston Celtics aren’t the most supported basketball team are they?
 

One thing I do agree on however is that Rangers and Celtic’s popularity and stature would increase significantly if they joined the Premier League.

[Ellis Rimmer]

8 minutes ago, T Hardy said:

I think that’s a stretch. The Boston Celtics aren’t the most supported basketball team are they?
 

One thing I do agree on however is that Rangers and Celtic’s popularity and stature would increase significantly if they joined the Premier League.

I guess Boston Celtic is Boston's team. I think they're pretty popular anyway to be fair to say they have never won anything in my time. But when you're picking a team not based on geography you're going to go for something that connects you to them or resonates in a certain way and surely Celtic would be the logical shout for many Irish Americans? 

[Belfast Owl 2]

1 hour ago, T Hardy said:

Always I think this discussion will come back to how you define big and even fans. In the traditional sense, yes Celtic have more supporter clubs worldwide. Leicester have a much larger social media following worldwide. Yeah a lot who follow on social media won’t be fans, but if you look at those that interact and post, they are fans. But for every person who ‘follows’ Leicester because they won the league, I’m sure you’ve got someone who says they’re a Celtic supporter because their grandad was Irish. One is the modern way of following a team, the other is a more old fashioned way, I think it’s hard to compare them and say in 2021 which counts the most.

 

Social media following isn't a factor in determining the stature of a club.

 

Celtics fanbase will always dwarf Leicesters. Its in the millions and worldwide.  Even if Leicester won more trophies it wouldnt change much. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest T Hardy]

53 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Social media following isn't a factor in determining the stature of a club.

 

Celtics fanbase will always dwarf Leicesters. Its in the millions and worldwide.  Even if Leicester won more trophies it wouldnt change much. 

 

 

 

 

I think your view will be an outdated one in a few years time on how we determine this. Football is modernising beyond supporter clubs.

[Guest Bulgaria]

4 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

Do you think Burnley, Fulham and Brighton are bigger clubs than Wednesday?

No.

 

More successful right now absolutely.

 

Bigger.... No way.

[Guest T Hardy]

12 minutes ago, Bulgaria said:

No.

 

More successful right now absolutely.

 

Bigger.... No way.

At the moment I totally agree, but if we’re stuck in League One for ages and those teams actually start winning trophies, I’m not sure for how long we could claim to be ‘bigger’ 

[Guest Bulgaria]

10 minutes ago, T Hardy said:

At the moment I totally agree, but if we’re stuck in League One for ages and those teams actually start winning trophies, I’m not sure for how long we could claim to be ‘bigger’ 

Not so sure.

Newcastle ain't won anything for ions but they will always be a bigger club than most regardless of how many trophies others win.

 

Sheffield Wednesday has a certain kudos also, we seem to be respected by most fans of other clubs..... Even now, what with our chairman making a pigs ear out of things I guarantee fans of other clubs will have a certain respect.

 

Look at Leeds, they have been through the mill, but deep down we know they are and will always be a big club. I think we have that same standing.

 

 

[Guest Bulgaria]

From a personal point of view, rightly or wrongly, I always gauge my thoughts on away followings regarding the term " big club"

 

Sunderland for example always packed the away end, so for me, they are a big club.

[Belfast Owl 2]

3 hours ago, T Hardy said:

I think your view will be an outdated one in a few years time on how we determine this. Football is modernising beyond supporter clubs.

 

The internet is a passing fad.

 

[sheffield_dave]

10 hours ago, T Hardy said:

I think your view will be an outdated one in a few years time on how we determine this. Football is modernising beyond supporter clubs.

If you gather a room full of football fans from across the world, and read through a list of major derbies to pick their favourite from, every one of them would have an opinion about Celtic v Rangers. It’s one of the most binary choices in world football and can even effect or be effected by the team you support in your home country, depending on historical, religious or political ties etc. You don’t need to actively support either team or have anything to do with Scotland to have a clear pick which you prefer.

 

Leicester are just a recently successful Premier League team. In today’s world that counts for a lot as far as support and eyeballs goes, but it’s not even close to the Old Firm (or other notable world derbies) in terms of importance or actual impact. There’s no reason for anyone to care about Leicester in the way they do Celtic or Rangers. It’s just different levels for different reasons. 

[sonofbert2]

Nearly every football supporter in Spain, wherever they are from, whoever they support has a preference for either Real Madrid or Barcelona.

 

Celtic and Rangers carry the same type of weight.

 

They are truly massive clubs and would definitely be part of any future European Super League.

[Guest T Hardy]

15 hours ago, sonofbert2 said:

Nearly every football supporter in Spain, wherever they are from, whoever they support has a preference for either Real Madrid or Barcelona.

 

Celtic and Rangers carry the same type of weight.

 

They are truly massive clubs and would definitely be part of any future European Super League.

For what it’s worth I’m not saying any of what I’ve said to try and demean Scottish football. I went to uni with a Rangers fan and became fond of them (it was difficult when they signed El Hadj Diouf) and would consider them my Scottish team, I always check how they’ve got on. I just think the quality of the football on show there will lead to a decrease in worldwide interest, and I think the relatively poor following on social media that Celtic and Rangers have compared to some Premier League teams and other clubs in Europe shows this. You can say whatever you want about social media, but it is still a relatively new phenomenon and is used by 49% of humans on the planet, it’s absolutely here to stay, so I think it’s a good measure for something like this.

 

I hope I’m wrong. I’d actually love to see those two teams in the Premier League and see what they could build with those resources. People are lot smarter than me surely realise it’s the only way these clubs will reach their potential (in terms of money)

Edited March 9, 2021 by T Hardy

[g-owls]

 

On 07/03/2021 at 11:16, SiJ said:

Social media numbers are a bit of a red herring.

 

Leicester have more by virtue of being in the PL, which is the biggest league in the world and watched by millions. The vast majority of people who will follow/subscribe to them won't even be Leicester City fans.

 

Celtic are a far, far bigger club than most teams in the PL, let alone Leicester City. It's just they play in a league which has seemingly gone backwards in terms of its quality and popularity outside of Scotland.

 

If you put Rangers and Celtic in the Prem, arm them with the tv money, exposure etc., then you would see two clubs competing against the top 6 in this country and possibly beyond even that.

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and possibly Arsenal are the only clubs in the UK that would match the Old Firm if they were both established clubs in the English top flight. 

 

Celtic and Rangers might be big fish in a small pond in Scotland, but the global appeal they have is huge. If Celtic for example were competing in Premier League the attention that would receive in the USA would be huge. The sports bars in places such as New York and Boston would be absolutely rammed with Celts on match days.

 

Whether that will ever happen is another issue, but no one can ever deny that both of these clubs have enormous potential if they were ever on the same playing field in the monetary sense, with the rest of Europe’s leading clubs. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by g-owls

[Ellis Rimmer]

2 hours ago, g-owls said:

 

 

Manchester United, Liverpool and possibly Arsenal are the only clubs in the UK that would match the Old Firm if they were both established clubs in the English top flight. 

 

Celtic and Rangers might be big fish in a small pond in Scotland, but the global appeal they have is huge. If Celtic for example were competing in Premier League the attention that would receive in the USA would be huge. The sports bars in places such as New York and Boston would be absolutely rammed with Celts on match days.

 

Whether that will ever happen is another issue, but no one can ever deny that both of these clubs have enormous potential if they were ever on the same playing field in the monetary sense, with the rest of Europe’s leading clubs. 

It won't, it's all for the Old firm to gain and PL clubs to lose

[sage owl]

On 07/03/2021 at 10:06, edinburghowl said:

Do you think Burnley, Fulham and Brighton are bigger clubs than Wednesday?

They will all think they are.

 In national terms we are now irrelevant.