Hutch

[@owlstalk]

9 minutes ago, Bluewings said:

Meh...

All this "bad egg balzzzzzz"

 

Idk what type of person Hutch or Westwood are...they can sleep with my mum for all I care 

We are winning games with them in the team, I don't get the negativity and bringing this attitude stuff up all the time.

I'm sure if Hutchinson and Westwood was as bad as the rumours say they are we would have lost a lot more since they came back in.

 

Fake news.

 

 

Reyt

[Owls Loyal]

Monk was inept and this becomes clearer by the day.

 

And with every solid performance by Westwood and Hutchinson  Monk is more and more a figure of ridicule as I sad a year ago.

[McRightSide]

For what it’s worth I think Hutchinson will make a good manager 

 

Not just his exposure to elite players, performance and coaching (not here obvs) but his pursuit of high standards and perfection

 

What’s he’s going to have to learn / navigate it that not everyone has the same standards (or is capable of the same standards) but you still need to engage, motivate and leverage them

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

For what it’s worth I think Hutchinson will make a good manager 

 

Not just his exposure to elite players, performance and coaching (not here obvs) but his pursuit of high standards and perfection

 

What’s he’s going to have to learn / navigate it that not everyone has the same standards (or is capable of the same standards) but you still need to engage, motivate and leverage them

 

 

Like Roy Keane?

[dumboldowl]

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

My outside view has always been that Garry Monk (and Jos) manage a certain way, Hutchinson and Westwood evidently displayed traits that made the way those managers go about their work more difficult or it wasn't wanted

. 

Those managers perceived they wouldn't get to where they wanted to get to with those 2 obstacles in the way. It certainly strikes me as Manager v those 2, rather than any fall out amongst the group in the main (with the evidence of them being brought back to the group twice now).

 

To be fair, it is extremely difficult trying to manage with people you don't feel are bought in to how you want things to progress, especially if you feel that influence makes your job with the rest of the team more difficult. 

 

Sorry for the ramble, but what I'm trying to get to is, I guess sometimes it just doesn't work between certain people and fiery people generally fall into that category more than others. Some managers/team mates will accept it and others will not. 

 

It looks for now like them being back is working for the group now, and I very much hope it contributes to us staying up. 

 

After that, who knows, I try not to second guess what DC will do, because it often turns out to be wrong  . 

 

 

Those two Managers removed the two (perceived) obstacles in their way and proceeded to fail miserably.  Since their return the improvement has shown where the obstacles lay.

 

[cowl]

6 hours ago, reggae said:

I pass on what I know as little as possible as that is fair.

 

I think that westwood is negotiating a contract now. Well I know he is. 

 

So what you basically ‘know’ is that Westwood, who is in the final year of his contract, has got his agent talking to the club about a knew contract? This is almost certainly going to be true for all the players that are out of contract this summer, and we have a lot of those at the moment. And only those, if there are any, that have made their mind up that they want to leave no matter what, may not be bothering with that (and even so, their agent might feel it prudent to talk to the club about a contract anyway).

 

6 hours ago, reggae said:

And I believe hutch went abroad and is now back on a contract that is less than half when he went. 

 

As for Hutchinson—yes, I can confirm that he went abroad. And that he's on less than before seems like a very reasonable assumption; that he's on ‘less than half’ than before he went is guesswork; but he's already said himself that the contract is incentive-based anyway, which is pretty much a give away that it's going to be appreciably much less than what he was on before.

 

So you ‘know’ next to nothing. But it's nevertheless clear what your view of Hutchinson and Westwood as personalities is—or rather, it's clear what the view of the person whose lies you're repeating is; like I say, gullible.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, cowl said:

 

So what you basically ‘know’ is that Westwood, who is in the final year of his contract, has got his agent talking to the club about a knew contract? This is almost certainly going to be true for all the players that are out of contract this summer, and we have a lot of those at the moment. And only those, if there are any, that have made their mind up that they want to leave no matter what, may not be bothering with that (and even so, their agent might feel it prudent to talk to the club about a contract anyway).

 

 

As for Hutchinson—yes, I can confirm that he went abroad. And that he's on less than before seems like a very reasonable assumption; that he's on ‘less than half’ than before he went is guesswork; but he's already said himself that the contract is incentive-based anyway, which is pretty much a give away that it's going to be appreciably much less than what he was on before.

 

So you ‘know’ next to nothing. But it's nevertheless clear what your view of Hutchinson and Westwood as personalities is—or rather, it's clear what the view of the person whose lies you're repeating is; like I say, gullible.

 

 

So so aggressive

Unnecessary

[cowl]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

So so aggressive

Unnecessary

 

He's lying though, and more to the point, to fellow fans.

 

That also is unnecessary. And for what? His own entertainment?

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

He's lying though, and more to the point, to fellow fans.

 

That also is unnecessary. And for what? His own entertainment?

 

 

Then point it out and explain why he's wrong

But in a calm way

We're all friends here - let's be kind to one another 

[bigdan2003]

I was wrong, I have to admit it. I thought it was a mistake to resign him at the time. But I’ve been proven completely wrong, thankfully, because he’s been an absolute rock at the back and clearly a good influence. 
 

Makes it all the more bizarre that he was frozen out.

[cowl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Then point it out and explain why he's wrong

But in a calm way

 

That's what I did; and I was calm about it too.

 

Besides it was the post from last night that was far more aggressive, responding as I was to his baseless ‘big time charlies’ jibes. He softened his stance subsequently, and so did I (a little).

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

That's what I did; and I was calm about it too.

 

Besides it was the post from last night that was far more aggressive, responding as I was to his baseless ‘big time charlies’ jibes. He softened his stance subsequently, and so did I (a little).

 

That's the way

Everyone soften stances and we'll all be happier people

Let love into your heart

[cowl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

That's the way

Everyone soften stances and we'll all be happier people

Let love into your heart

 

Yes, that and not lying to people.

[Owls Loyal]

Is there a single Wednesday fan who still believes that it was right for the inept Monk to leave out Westwood and Hutchinson?

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Owls Loyal said:

Is there a single Wednesday fan who still believes that it was right for the inept Monk to leave out Westwood and Hutchinson?

We won again last night mate

2-0

We're out of the relegation zone

Be happy and positive 

[WhiteOwl91]

49 minutes ago, dumboldowl said:

Those two Managers removed the two (perceived) obstacles in their way and proceeded to fail miserably.  Since their return the improvement has shown where the obstacles lay.

 

I agree. Those managers live and die by their decisions. Sadly for them, it didn’t work! And they have to deal with the consequence of that

[shandypants]

All this talk about personality clashes and bad eggs is not unique to our club nor has it been the case in the past.  About 10 years ago, I heard an interview with a real "top notch" manager that had a stellar management career that had spanned several decades of football management - I think it was Bobby Robson, although I can't say for certain (anyway, it'll be out somewhere in the ether if someone wants to find it).  In this interview, the manager said that the biggest element of management is managing the players' egos and the effect of said egos on the club and team, and that the most successful managers weren't necessarily the best tacticians or coaches but those that could effectively and successfully manage the ego-fest that was a first team squad.  He even went as far as saying that the great Alex Ferguson's reputation of ruling his players with an iron fist was a fallacy and cited Eric Cantona and Roy Keane as players than couldn't be ruled by force of will.  The manager continued by revealing that, apart from the influx of foreign players, the only real change in his career over the decades was that player's egos had become even more inflated which had resulted in him having to spend more time on this aspect of football management. 

 

The point I am trying to make here is that, if indeed Hutchinson and Westwood are "bad eggs", they are no different from the norm in any changing room. Every single club will have a Hutchinson and a Westwood; maybe other clubs have more of them. 

 

Ultimately, the failure doesn't lie with Hutchinson and Westwood; it lies with Monk and Luhukay.  

 

 

 

 

[WhiteOwl91]

5 minutes ago, shandypants said:

All this talk about personality clashes and bad eggs is not unique to our club nor has it been the case in the past.  About 10 years ago, I heard an interview with a real "top notch" manager that had a stellar management career that had spanned several decades of football management - I think it was Bobby Robson, although I can't say for certain (anyway, it'll be out somewhere in the ether if someone wants to find it).  In this interview, the manager said that the biggest element of management is managing the players' egos and the effect of said egos on the club and team, and that the most successful managers weren't necessarily the best tacticians or coaches but those that could effectively and successfully manage the ego-fest that was a first team squad.  He even went as far as saying that the great Alex Ferguson's reputation of ruling his players with an iron fist was a fallacy and cited Eric Cantona and Roy Keane as players than couldn't be ruled by force of will.  The manager continued by revealing that, apart from the influx of foreign players, the only real change in his career over the decades was that player's egos had become even more inflated which had resulted in him having to spend more time on this aspect of football management. 

 

The point I am trying to make here is that, if indeed Hutchinson and Westwood are "bad eggs", they are no different from the norm in any changing room. Every single club will have a Hutchinson and a Westwood; maybe other clubs have more of them. 

 

Ultimately, the failure doesn't lie with Hutchinson and Westwood; it lies with Monk and Luhukay.  

 

 

 

 

It’s a good point. You only have to look even at semi pro level and the egos of some in that! So can only imagine when you get to the higher ends of the pro game, it’s even more amplified 

[shandypants]

1 minute ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

It’s a good point. You only have to look even at semi pro level and the egos of some in that! So can only imagine when you get to the higher ends of the pro game, it’s even more amplified 

Without a doubt.  For every "level-headed" Liam Palmer, there's an "I'm a legend" Carlton Palmer.  I wonder which Palmer Monk and Luhukay would favour?  I love Liam's attitude and professionalism but I'd take Carlton's enormous ego every day of the week - my guess is that Monk and Luhukay wouldn't.  

[@owlstalk]

 

It's 100% total speculation that Jos and Monk couldn't manage egos/personality

 

It's just totally made up

Complete made up speculation